Sweden crying out for engineers and IT people. Where's all the Irish?

Ellis Dee · 06-04-2012 07:54PM

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

its the language barrier i think. Irish people dont speak Swedish. If english was spoken there as standard id say we would be gone in our droves

Actually, Swedish is probably the easiest language for an English speaker to learn. No noun cases, no verb declensions and a vocabulary that overlaps considerably with that of English. I was able to get by in Swedish after a couple of months in Stockholm. There are excellent courses for immigrants.:cool:

The only real problem is that so many Swedish people speak good English and are eager to do so, with the result that it's not easy for a foreigner to practise speaking Swedish.:)

As for high taxes, what really matters is what you have in your pocket after them, and that's a good lot in Sweden. In return for the high taxes, you get a lot back by way of services, infrastructure, education, health care, and will be well looked after if you become too sick to earn a living, something that hopefully won't hapen to you.

If you are an outdoors type, the outdoor amenities in Sweden are superb, winter or summer, and there's plenty to do in big cities as well once you start getting a grasp on the language and orient yourself.:)

stupidusername · 06-04-2012 07:58PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I assume there's loads going there then!

what?

starlit · 06-04-2012 09:48PM

Domo230 wrote: »

No I work in marketing. I do have to do the occasional piece of work to do on a computer but it's stuff most office workers could do on a computer (no programming). I spend a lot of my job actually talking to people and I am happy that I get to do that in this job.

Domo230, What area of Marketing are you in? Digital/Social Media?

token101 wrote: »

we also learned an apparently dead language that no one uses :rolleyes:

What programming language is that? vb? python?

So what is the major programming language that employers wish employees have then? What's the most popular or most commonly used programming language at the moment, that be big in?

markpb · 06-04-2012 09:56PM

Pure_Cork wrote: »

If someone isn't prepared to move to a beautiful place like Kinsale, only half an hour from a city, in search of work then they're not hungry for work or just plain stupid in my opinion. ****ing hell like.

You can take that approach if you like but the truth is that most IT jobs are and will be, in cities because that's where the majority of people are. Setting up in Kinsale and hoping to find enough suitable professionals in a town with a population of 2k is very naive.

You can't just set up a company anywhere and expect people to move there - it doesn't work like that.

Any recent graduate that I know working in a good job now was prepared to move anywhere for work, they didn't just apply for jobs within a 1km radius of their mam's tits.

Companies can't exist on graduates alone and a company hoping to employ sought-after IT graduates in a remote location are daft. If you're setting up a building company, maybe you'd have some hope there.

jaykay74 · 06-04-2012 10:01PM

I moved to an IT job in Stockholm last year. Best move I ever made

NSNO · 06-04-2012 10:30PM

doovdela wrote: »

Domo230, What area of Marketing are you in? Digital/Social Media?

What programming language is that? vb? python?

So what is the major programming language that employers wish employees have then? What's the most popular or most commonly used programming language at the moment, that be big in?

Any half-decent programmer with a good degree/experience can pick up a programming language fairly easily in a couple of weeks. Employers want development experience, be that in enterprise or open-source contributions.

starlit · 06-04-2012 10:50PM

NSNO wrote: »

Any half-decent programmer with a good degree/experience can pick up a programming language fairly easily in a couple of weeks. Employers want development experience, be that in enterprise or open-source contributions.

Basically work experience in programming development and projects? Along with a various amount of skills in various programming languages not just having one or two in tow but a number of them.

Easy enough self learning programming languages just practise them you can learn them and the principles. Completing projects in your own time I suppose is handy to have done.

titan18 · 06-04-2012 10:54PM

doovdela wrote: »

Domo230, What area of Marketing are you in? Digital/Social Media?

What programming language is that? vb? python?

So what is the major programming language that employers wish employees have then? What's the most popular or most commonly used programming language at the moment, that be big in?

If he did the same course as me, it's VB6. It was removed a year later from the course and VB.NET is thought from 1st year.

WillieFlynn · 06-04-2012 11:01PM

stupidusername wrote: »

jobs.ie, fas.ie, adverts.ie/jobs
they're pretty much all just showing the same jobs anyway. since i can't get an intern job I haven't bothered looking much at paid IT jobs tbh.

For computer jobs in Ireland monster.ie is the best site. http://ec.europa.eu/eures/ has some jobs trough out the EU but not so many IT ones.

BTW when I was looking for a job a couple of months ago (after my work was moved to Russia). I could have found work much quicker in Cork or Limerick, they find it very difficult to get IT staff, as most people in the industry have moved to Dublin over the years and settled, as there were better prospects.

starlit · 06-04-2012 11:13PM

titan18 wrote: »

If he did the same course as me, it's VB6. It was removed a year later from the course and VB.NET is thought from 1st year.

Oh right. I did VB a few years ago but it was with visual studio 5 not version 6 and VBA with MS access. So is VBA of any use these days?

One thing I get confused is what language is C is that VB, C Sharp and C++ are they both java?

I know there are more than one versions of Java which is a pain as the language changes a bit from time to time depending what version you programme.

Unix/Linux, PHP, CSS and HTML at least stay the same and don't change! Which is good news for me! Windows programming wouldn't be too bad mostly commands like linux. They be the languages I be best at the OS and Web programming languages though don't have Javascript and only touched on perl and python (not a fan of python or java!) Though java seems to be a must have along with other programming languages I've mentioned but depends on job in question. Each job spec can be slightly different.

stupidusername · 06-04-2012 11:14PM

C, C#, C++ and Java are each their own languages.

maybe what you're thinking is that C# is very similar to VB

WillieFlynn · 06-04-2012 11:15PM

Domo230 wrote: »

Most of the IT work I was ever involved in could have been done via telecommuting imo.

Best way to live would be find a tropical island in the pacific where standards of living are really low (like live as a king for 500 euro low) and telecommute to work while enjoying your high Irish standard IT salary.

In the last company I worked in we had staff in Spain, England, Austrila, Argentina, and so on... they first worked in Ireland and then left for personal / family reasons, but were kept on.

I was thinking the same about telecommuting before, however what would allow us to work remotely also allows the companies to higher people in low cost countries India, Philippines, Russia, etc. Can't complain about jobs being shifted to lower cost countries, as that is why the computer industry set up in Ireland in the fist place.

starlit · 06-04-2012 11:16PM

stupidusername wrote: »

C, C#, C++ and Java are each their own languages.

maybe what you're thinking is that C# is very similar to VB

Ya maybe that's it, C# i'v seen as an option language to use in Visual studio often makes me confused with VB.

So are C, C# and C++ all different versions of Java so?

stupidusername · 06-04-2012 11:18PM

doovdela wrote: »

Ya maybe that's it, C# i'v seen as an option language to use in Visual studio often makes me confused with VB.

So are C, C# and C++ all different versions of Java so?

No. they're all languages.

titan18 · 06-04-2012 11:19PM

doovdela wrote: »

Oh right. I did VB a few years ago but it was with visual studio 5 not version 6 and VBA with MS access. So is VBA of any use these days?

One thing I get confused is what language is C is that VB, C Sharp and C++ are they both java?

I know there are more than one versions of Java which is a pain as the language changes a bit from time to time depending what version you programme.

Unix/Linux, PHP, CSS and HTML at least stay the same and don't change! Which is good news for me! Windows programming wouldn't be too bad mostly commands like linux. They be the languages I be best at the OS and Web programming languages though don't have Javascript and only touched on perl and python (not a fan of python or java!) Though java seems to be a must have along with other programming languages I've mentioned but depends on job in question. Each job spec can be slightly different.

Java and C# are very similar, if you know one, it was quite easy to work with the other. I've never used C++,C etc.

Also, C# and VB.Net are both part of the .NET framework, so share a lot of similar characteristics.

I wouldn't get caught on what languages someone has or has not. If you could code in something like Java and understand the fundamentals, you should be capable of picking up a lot of languages.

Pure_Cork · 07-04-2012 08:11AM

markpb wrote: »

You can take that approach if you like but the truth is that most IT jobs are and will be, in cities because that's where the majority of people are. Setting up in Kinsale and hoping to find enough suitable professionals in a town with a population of 2k is very naive.

You can't just set up a company anywhere and expect people to move there - it doesn't work like that.

Companies can't exist on graduates alone and a company hoping to employ sought-after IT graduates in a remote location are daft. If you're setting up a building company, maybe you'd have some hope there.

I've seen people move anywhere for work. Kinsale is within commuting distance of Cork City is someone wanted to live in the very centre of the city. There are multinational companies based in small towns, location is rarely a problem for people who are hungry for work. The last place I worked was a large multinational, at one of their offices/plants which was 40 minutes away from the nearest city, people had no problem relocating and/or commuting. That multinational must be very naive alright... :rolleyes:

bout3fiddy · 07-04-2012 08:47AM

IT is a terrible industry to work in imo. I have become very bitter about the whole sector and it's unregulated nature. So I took my Computer Science Degree and gave the four fingers to the sector.

I am now training to work in the financial sector where I can really apply my programming skills while not dealing with IT related crap and end users. Avoid IT. It's not regulated and full of mavericks with little or no professional rigour.

It's a low prestige sector to be quite honest. Algorithms will be developed to replace these grunts anyway. There are a very small subset of jobs that are good, most jobs in "IT" are a pile of you know what. Avoid.

omahaid · 07-04-2012 09:48AM

bout3fiddy wrote: »

IT is a terrible industry to work in imo. I have become very bitter about the whole sector and it's unregulated nature. So I took my Computer Science Degree and gave the four fingers to the sector.

I am now training to work in the financial sector where I can really apply my programming skills while not dealing with IT related crap and end users. Avoid IT. It's not regulated and full of mavericks with little or no professional rigour.

It's a low prestige sector to be quite honest. Algorithms will be developed to replace these grunts anyway. There are a very small subset of jobs that are good, most jobs in "IT" are a pile of you know what. Avoid.

What do you mean by "IT"? Software development? Or network admin? Or....?

dvpower · 07-04-2012 09:58AM

bout3fiddy wrote: »

IT is a terrible industry to work in imo. I have become very bitter about the whole sector and it's unregulated nature. So I took my Computer Science Degree and gave the four fingers to the sector.

I am now training to work in the financial sector where I can really apply my programming skills while not dealing with IT related crap and end users. Avoid IT. It's not regulated and full of mavericks with little or no professional rigour.

It's a low prestige sector to be quite honest. Algorithms will be developed to replace these grunts anyway. There are a very small subset of jobs that are good, most jobs in "IT" are a pile of you know what. Avoid.

tl;dr
Studied Computer Science, couldn't make it in the sector, moved into a different field. Remain a little bit bitter.

Mark200 · 07-04-2012 10:04AM

stupidusername wrote: »

pragmatic1 wrote: »

What websites do you look for jobs on?

jobs.ie, fas.ie, adverts.ie/jobs
they're pretty much all just showing the same jobs anyway. since i can't get an intern job I haven't bothered looking much at paid IT jobs tbh.

Try going onto company websites. Very few jobs are actually advertised on those sites.

If you're looking for a grad position then you're prob too late to get one for this coming September. Nearly all companies would have decided already who they're taking on.

In the mean time, keep yourself busy with learning new skills and starting your own projects. Don't leave gaps in your CV.

salonfire wrote: »

Helix wrote: »

isnt the standard of irish IT graduates seen as being fairly abysmal these days? i remember in an interview i did with one of the guys from Havok where he essentially said that the standard is so poor in ireland they'll rarely entertain any irish applicants

That guy from Havok is peddling total bullsh1t.

Irish IT grads come from the same background, have the same work ethic, come from the same universities as grads in Engineering, Medicine, Nursing, Business, Maths, etc

Why is it that Irish IT grads are so bad?
Are Irish Medicine grads bad as well? Have we Nursing grads going round accidently killing people?

I have the feeling that something else is at play when IT grads are always being talked down

It seems that you're the one "peddling total bullsh1t". Irish IT companies needing to bring in people from abroad is a well know problem. It's not just companies like Havok who are looking for the "best of the best" that are having the problem either.

daelight · 07-04-2012 10:16AM

Did someone say 'Sweden' ?

Appears lost in the barrage of muck being thrown about

bout3fiddy · 07-04-2012 10:25AM

dvpower wrote: »

tl;dr
Studied Computer Science, couldn't make it in the sector, moved into a different field. Remain a little bit bitter.

Pretty much. Good grades and still more bull****. I am still glad I am not working for free. Any company that "hires" junior IT staff for 50 euro a week or whatever is legalised exploitation. The least they could do is stop calling it a "job". Not to mention companies using the term "Engineer" loosely, which is highly illegal in certain places. You can be thrown in jail for pulling that stunt.

omahaid · 07-04-2012 10:42AM

daelight wrote: »

Did someone say 'Sweden' ?

Appears lost in the barrage of muck being thrown about

Ah yes, to address the OP, plenty software jobs here, have wife and kids and mortgage so Sweden has to work harder to convince me to move

Cookie_Monster · 07-04-2012 10:44AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

There's a huge shortage of IT people and engineers in this country too.

my fiancée and two of my friends are engineers and they've all moved abroad, there are no engineering jobs in Ireland that are worthwhile in comparison to what many other countries can offer.

bout3fiddy · 07-04-2012 11:15AM

Scandanavia is too highly taxed. The UK would be a better move if you want to keep more money, plus you aren't subject to immigration controls for the most part.

Mark200 · 07-04-2012 11:36AM

bout3fiddy wrote: »

dvpower wrote: »

tl;dr
Studied Computer Science, couldn't make it in the sector, moved into a different field. Remain a little bit bitter.

Pretty much. Good grades and still more bull****. I am still glad I am not working for free. Any company that "hires" junior IT staff for 50 euro a week or whatever is legalised exploitation. The least they could do is stop calling it a "job". Not to mention companies using the term "Engineer" loosely, which is highly illegal in certain places. You can be thrown in jail for pulling that stunt.

Em except they aren't being hired for 50 euro a week, they're being hired for between €150 to €238 a week not including any other Govt assistance they might be getting. Really don't see how that is exploitation when the alternative for the person is to earn 50 euro less a week while searching for a job and in the meantime the gap in their CV grows

WillieFlynn · 07-04-2012 11:45AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

my fiancée and two of my friends are engineers and they've all moved abroad, there are no engineering jobs in Ireland that are worthwhile in comparison to what many other countries can offer.

Very much depends on the branch of engineering.

bout3fiddy · 07-04-2012 11:52AM

Mark200 wrote: »

Em except they aren't being hired for 50 euro a week, they're being hired for between €150 to €238 a week not including any other Govt assistance they might be getting. Really don't see how that is exploitation when the alternative for the person is to earn 50 euro less a week while searching for a job and in the meantime the gap in their CV grows

Rubbish. Most of the Internships advertised on JobBridge are a 50 euro a week job for the employer, no expenses or perks, and the worker is still on the dole. Hardly a good situation to be in. That is unemployment to me. Gaps in CV? That should be the least of their worries. It's none of their business what you do with your time outside work. Get a minimum wage stop gap job in the meantime or just fabricate job references if you are really stuck. Doing IT work for nothing is just laughable really.

HavingCrack · 07-04-2012 11:55AM

bout3fiddy wrote: »

Scandanavia is too highly taxed. The UK would be a better move if you want to keep more money, plus you aren't subject to immigration controls for the most part.

You aren't subject to immigration control in Sweden, Denmark or Finland either. They are all EU states, same as the UK. The only exception is Norway and I'm pretty sure it's relatively easy for members of the EEA to emigrate there also.

bout3fiddy · 07-04-2012 11:58AM

HavingCrack wrote: »

You aren't subject to immigration control in Sweden, Denmark or Finland either. They are all EU states, same as the UK. The only exception is Norway and I'm pretty sure it's relatively easy for members of the EEA to emigrate there also.

Try aquiring permanent residency in under 5 years then if you don't believe me. May not be as strict as further afield, but your rights in EEA states outside of the UK are without a doubt more limited.

Sweden crying out for engineers and IT people. Where's all the Irish?

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