Sweden crying out for engineers and IT people. Where's all the Irish?

Overflow · 05-04-2012 10:34PM

salonfire wrote: »

I am available to work in IT. I'd be willing to move anywhere for a job at this stage.

I have 3 years testing experience with good SQL skills.

Anyone working for those companies can just shoot me a PM :cool:

/awaits flood of PMs

I came to Norway 6 years ago, after finishing a 3 year diploma in Multimedia and a Comptia A+ and Networks+ FAS course. Zero work experience. I had a job within 2 months as a Junior Dev. Now im working as the Chief Systems Architect and IT Manager for a offshore shipping company. I had 4 different jobs since arriving here and all this through the 'recession'.

There are so many IT job opportunities in Scandinavia right now, you just have to go for it.

Not being able to speak the native language has never been a problem for me, so dont worry about that.

Mr Benevolent · 05-04-2012 10:44PM

Put it like this. I'm paid €25k in Ireland for cloud CRM support. I'm certified and know a lot more than the people who call me - and they're the system admins. In the UK the same job pays €50k inc 10% bonus, health insurance, creche vouchers, gym membership... the list goes on. In the rest of Europe the pay is even higher. I'm setting up a consultancy here, none of the Irish customers have anywhere to turn for help, especially since phone support is being withdrawn.

Bogger77 · 05-04-2012 11:00PM

titan18 wrote: »

Nah, it's true. I'm in college atm and some of our lecturers are a bit useless. Most of my class (final year) can't program, and due to bell curve marking, you just need to be better than them to get a 1H. I'm actually good though thankfully

Also I'm available for work if anyone has IT work in Cork. I have experience with C#, Android, Web development/design and have done some testing on placement last summer

http://careers.mcafee.com/search?q=cork

MysticalRain · 06-04-2012 12:28AM

Helix wrote: »

isnt the standard of irish IT graduates seen as being fairly abysmal these days? i remember in an interview i did with one of the guys from Havok where he essentially said that the standard is so poor in ireland they'll rarely entertain any irish applicants

I would be very cautious about taking what you read about the IT industry in the Irish media complete at face value. Given the nature of their business, what Havoc are really looking for is not so much programmers as math/physics geeks. Those kinds of graduates are always going to be in short supply no matter where a company is located.

I heard another employer complaining to the media a while ago that he couldn’t find IT grads to work for his company. But what did he expect when his location was…Kinsale of all places? Not too many people willing to relocate down there these days.

Helix · 06-04-2012 03:41AM

MysticalRain wrote: »

I would be very cautious about taking what you read about the IT industry in the Irish media complete at face value.

well, technically i didnt read it - i wrote it

LorraineMcFly · 06-04-2012 08:46AM

its the language barrier i think. Irish people dont speak Swedish. If english was spoken there as standard id say we would be gone in our droves

syklops · 06-04-2012 09:27AM

longhalloween wrote: »

What's the best way to get the skills and training required for these jobs?

Google and a bit of effort.

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

If english was spoken there as standard id say we would be gone in our droves

For the most part it is. Same for all of europe. Practically everyone below the age of forty can speak at least some level of English.

Robdude · 06-04-2012 11:12AM

I'm very confused about the world's IT supply.

According to Ireland's government - Ireland has a shortage of skilled IT workers. IT jobs are one of the handful of jobs you can get a Green Card for without passing the labour test and without earning 60k.

Sweden also has an IT shortage.

Why would people flock from Ireland to Sweden if they both have a shortage?

Officially, there is also an IT shortage in the United States; and they have their H1-B Visa program to streamline talent entering the US.

And then, unofficially, no matter which country I'm in (from the US, working in Dublin, in IT) the natives insist that there is no shortage and that wages are depressed because there are too many people in the industry.

LorraineMcFly · 06-04-2012 11:15AM

syklops wrote: »

Google and a bit of effort.

For the most part it is. Same for all of europe. Practically everyone below the age of forty can speak at least some level of English.

Yes but in the work place swedish is spoken 99 per cent of the time. Been to Sweden a few times and people can speak in English to get by but everyone i met speaks swedish in work

yosser hughes · 06-04-2012 11:19AM

Domo230 wrote: »

Worked in IT, did Computer science and am glad I do not work in IT any more.

I worked enough CS jobs to know that I am happier with a different job. On a plus side no matter where I have ended up, having programming skills on my cv has helped me a bit. I would rather be ****ing awesome at the low paying job I love than be **** at a high paying job I detest.

What are you dong now Domo? Is it IT related at all?I used to work in IT and left for probably the same reasons you did.However I'm now getting back in to it,but more on the software side as opposed to the hardware/networking side that i was in.

haminka · 06-04-2012 11:53AM

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

Yes but in the work place swedish is spoken 99 per cent of the time. Been to Sweden a few times and people can speak in English to get by but everyone i met speaks swedish in work

I think it's really cheeky from the Swedes to speak Swedish in Sweden. It's time for them to cop on and understand that English is the language of future!
Seriously, people, what's the problem with learning foreign languages? You get grads crying that they can't get a job. You tell them, here, Sweden, Germany, whatever, all looking for IT people, even grads. The reply? But but but - the language! Well, if you want to be able to understand what your colleagues are saying during their coffee break, learn the bloody language! Half of the world is learning English, why are the English speakers so lazy?

skyhighflyer · 06-04-2012 11:56AM

stupidusername wrote: »

when I asked why they were looking for an intern (JobBridge) they said purely financial reasons, they wanted someone good but couldn't afford to pay them.

Fcuking hate this attitude on the part of employers :mad: Guess what, I'd like a Ferrari. Can't afford to buy one though :rolleyes:

haminka · 06-04-2012 12:00PM

token101 wrote: »

Their women are the business. But after the inevitable rejection for being amongst the ugliest people in the country, it would get dark at lunchtime, the offy would be closed, and you would be forced to trudge home in the dark through 6 feet of snow, sober as a judge. After the first month the boredom would make you mentally ill, and it wouldn't be much consolation that the healthcare is free.

I spent one of my most beautiful summer vacations in Sweden. The nature is breathtaking, we took plenty of walks, near the lakes, could just imagine how great it could be in winter. It's a great country, if you like nature and don't think you need to spend most of your weekend as a booze pickle.

Pure_Cork · 06-04-2012 12:04PM

MysticalRain wrote: »

I would be very cautious about taking what you read about the IT industry in the Irish media complete at face value. Given the nature of their business, what Havoc are really looking for is not so much programmers as math/physics geeks. Those kinds of graduates are always going to be in short supply no matter where a company is located.

I heard another employer complaining to the media a while ago that he couldn’t find IT grads to work for his company. But what did he expect when his location was…Kinsale of all places? Not too many people willing to relocate down there these days.

If someone isn't prepared to move to a beautiful place like Kinsale, only half an hour from a city, in search of work then they're not hungry for work or just plain stupid in my opinion. ****ing hell like. Any recent graduate that I know working in a good job now was prepared to move anywhere for work, they didn't just apply for jobs within a 1km radius of their mam's tits.

yosser hughes · 06-04-2012 12:05PM

haminka wrote: »

I think it's really cheeky from the Swedes to speak Swedish in Sweden. It's time for them to cop on and understand that English is the language of future!
Seriously, people, what's the problem with learning foreign languages? You get grads crying that they can't get a job. You tell them, here, Sweden, Germany, whatever, all looking for IT people, even grads. The reply? But but but - the language! Well, if you want to be able to understand what your colleagues are saying during their coffee break, learn the bloody language! Half of the world is learning English, why are the English speakers so lazy?

I agree haminka,people really need to improve their language skills and there has been enormous failure in our education system in this regard.
I am currently trying to learn German, but it isn't easy and certainly not something that can be done quickly. Living in the country where the language is spoken is obviously the way to go.It's hard to learn a language when you're living in Ireland.
Do you have any hints/suggestions on learning languages by the way?
Thanks.

syklops · 06-04-2012 12:09PM

Robdude wrote: »

I'm very confused about the world's IT supply.

According to Ireland's government - Ireland has a shortage of skilled IT workers. IT jobs are one of the handful of jobs you can get a Green Card for without passing the labour test and without earning 60k.

Sweden also has an IT shortage.

Why would people flock from Ireland to Sweden if they both have a shortage?

Officially, there is also an IT shortage in the United States; and they have their H1-B Visa program to streamline talent entering the US.

And then, unofficially, no matter which country I'm in (from the US, working in Dublin, in IT) the natives insist that there is no shortage and that wages are depressed because there are too many people in the industry.

You have to remember the IT industry is the biggest industry there is nowadays, with a myriad of specialist areas. So one company cant get enough DBAs and so there is a shortage, and so to people at the top or in politics this translates into a shortage of IT people(because IT is all the same right). Another country can't get enough testers, so again this translates into a shortage of IT people. The fact of the matter is, IT people as a whole don't exist. A Network Engineer cant turn his hands to software development over night, and vice versa. A skilled dev may not necessarily have the right aptitude for Quality Assurance etc etc.

Yes but in the work place swedish is spoken 99 per cent of the time. Been to Sweden a few times and people can speak in English to get by but everyone i met speaks swedish in work

Its mostly the same over here. Despite it being all american companies I worked in, Czech was spoken by all the Czech workers first. If they came to me and don't know I am Irish they start in Czech and i say can we switch to English and they do. It hasn't hindered me in any way. In fact many will prefer to talk to you in English once they know you are a native speaker because they want to improve their English. This is my experience from the Czech Republic, I am not saying Swedes are the same, but I would be surprised if they are much different.

haminka · 06-04-2012 12:16PM

yosser hughes wrote: »

I agree haminka,people really need to improve their language skills and there has been enormous failure in our education system in this regard.
I am currently trying to learn German, but it isn't easy and certainly not something that can be done quickly. Living in the country where the language is spoken is obviously the way to go.It's hard to learn a language when you're living in Ireland.
Do you have any hints/suggestions on learning languages by the way?
Thanks.

Practice is the most important thing. Just don't be ashamed and try to speak as much as possible. Read the newspapers, listen to their news, try to cover all areas of life.
Whereabouts do you live? Post on your county forum looking for German speakers in your particular area, maybe they would be interested in meeting you?
I am fluent in German myself, also English and found it the best to just put aside all the hang ups I had about making a fool of myself by making mistakes and just went and started speaking and writing and I read a lot and paid attention to how the native speakers were expressing themselves and it helped a lot. What helped me most was to start thinking in that language. If you want to express yourself in German, think in German, don't translate.

BostonB · 06-04-2012 12:19PM

There generally a shortage of skilled and experienced IT staff. Mainly because most IT companies don't train people. They just skim the best people off the top. As a result those at the bottom of the ladder find it hard to get work, those at the top have no problem. That said while wages are better than average, they are not at Y2K levels yet, I'm guessing. As if you pay enough people would move from anywhere.

Dboy85 · 06-04-2012 12:31PM

All this talk about shortages in Ireland is just so ceos can hire my Indian buddy with more experience and wayy lower wage demands. There are plenty of good developers in Ireland but nobody willing to pay them. In regards to Scandinavian work, I'm in Norway

I have basic Norsk but they are all fluent in English. Its polite to learn a working knowledge of the native language though just for culture reasons. Plenty of work over here with higher salaries but the cost of living is higher. I'm not even finished college yet, its an intern position, but I have been asked to stay and have had a few other offers on the table.

Mr Benevolent · 06-04-2012 12:48PM

haminka wrote: »

I spent one of my most beautiful summer vacations in Sweden. The nature is breathtaking, we took plenty of walks, near the lakes, could just imagine how great it could be in winter. It's a great country, if you like nature and don't think you need to spend most of your weekend as a booze pickle.

The cost of living is enough to make your eyes water and the alcohol is ridiculously expensive. Add to it a self-righteousness that's a sight to behold and Sweden is a very boring place if you don't like forests, lake and silence.

haminka · 06-04-2012 02:39PM

MysticalRain wrote: »

I would be very cautious about taking what you read about the IT industry in the Irish media complete at face value. Given the nature of their business, what Havoc are really looking for is not so much programmers as math/physics geeks. Those kinds of graduates are always going to be in short supply no matter where a company is located.

I heard another employer complaining to the media a while ago that he couldn’t find IT grads to work for his company. But what did he expect when his location was…Kinsale of all places? Not too many people willing to relocate down there these days.

I assume you were ironic? The employer should move closer to where IT grads live because they won't be able to work without having their mum preparing their lunch boxes and tuck them in? Any IT grad - and let's just for once assume the vast majority aren't dads or mums with kids going to school, mortgages etc. - who whinges about not having a job and then refusing a job offer because it's not in the close radius of where he/she lives should have their benefits cuts unless they have a very valid reason for not being able to relocate.

srsly78 · 06-04-2012 02:48PM

haminka wrote: »

I assume you were ironic? The employer should move closer to where IT grads live because they won't be able to work without having their mum preparing their lunch boxes and tuck them in? Any IT grad - and let's just for once assume the vast majority aren't dads or mums with kids going to school, mortgages etc. - who whinges about not having a job and then refusing a job offer because it's not in the close radius of where he/she lives should have their benefits cuts unless they have a very valid reason for not being able to relocate.

It's more likely the pay was ****. Same story with Havok. They have outrageous job requirements, but aren't willing to pay market rate for it. Consider the fact that Havok compete directly with investment banks for that skillset.

haminka · 06-04-2012 02:54PM

srsly78 wrote: »

It's more likely the pay was ****. Same story with Havok. They have outrageous job requirements, but aren't willing to pay market rate for it. Consider the fact that Havok compete directly with investment banks for that skillset.

If you are an IT grad complaining about not being able to get any job at all, why not take a job that would nicely fill up your CV? After a year or two you can start looking for something that pays nicely but at least you are not sitting at home and when someone tells you : so, what's your job experience, the answer would be a real company and not a shoulder shrug. They just left the school so either they have jobs coming their way and then it's happy days or they don't and then they should take one and consider it a working experience while they have no families depending on the salaries they bring home.

haminka · 06-04-2012 02:56PM

Domo230 wrote: »

Youve clearly never met many computer programmers :P

Most of the IT work I was ever involved in could have been done via telecommuting imo.

Best way to live would be find a tropical island in the pacific where standards of living are really low (like live as a king for 500 euro low) and telecommute to work while enjoying your high Irish standard IT salary.

Now that's living like a boss.

I work in IT and while my job is not really IT geeky, my other half is a SW architect. A tropical island would be nice though ...

srsly78 · 06-04-2012 03:00PM

Already looked into it. Tropical islands have the strictest immigration laws in the world. They only want tourists, not immigrants. I telecommute to work in London, dunno why I still live in Ireland at all

haminka · 06-04-2012 03:12PM

srsly78 wrote: »

Already looked into it. Tropical islands have the strictest immigration laws in the world. They only want tourists, not immigrants. I telecommute to work in London, dunno why I still live in Ireland at all

You like the weather, the people and the sheep on the fields. London simply doesn't cut it ...

stupidusername · 06-04-2012 03:13PM

I moved to dublin to up my chances of getting a job. there's hardly nothing going in the rest of the country, at least here there's things to apply for. i'm not moving again.

Dboy85 · 06-04-2012 04:21PM

stupidusername wrote: »

I moved to dublin to up my chances of getting a job. there's hardly nothing going in the rest of the country, at least here there's things to apply for. i'm not moving again.

Germany is crying out for developers, especially in Munich. Why not emigrate for the sake of building your CV. Come home like a champ in 2-5 years and live comfortably.

MysticalRain · 06-04-2012 07:33PM

Pure_Cork wrote: »

If someone isn't prepared to move to a beautiful place like Kinsale, only half an hour from a city, in search of work then they're not hungry for work or just plain stupid in my opinion. ****ing hell like. Any recent graduate that I know working in a good job now was prepared to move anywhere for work, they didn't just apply for jobs within a 1km radius of their mam's tits.

The guy from Kinsale was talking about attracting experienced IT people, not grads with zero experience. So it's a big ask for people living in other parts of the country to move to Cork if it involves convincing partners to quit their jobs so they can move too, yanking kids out of schools, and/or selling their house if they have one.

Fresh grads with no partners, kids or mortgages are obviously a lot more mobile. But that guy in Cork is still fighting against the laws of statistics in that there will always be a certain proportion of graduates who are neither willing or able to move to the more rural parts of Ireland outside of the big smoke.

Dostoevsky · 06-04-2012 07:45PM

stupidusername wrote: »

I moved to dublin to up my chances of getting a job. there's hardly nothing going in the rest of the country, at least here there's things to apply for. i'm not moving again.

I assume there's loads going there then!

Sweden crying out for engineers and IT people. Where's all the Irish?

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