4200fps wrote: »

Pump actions are a waste of time, you be sick pumping and forgeting to pump them also you will be off target every time you pump. Beretta all the way I think. A mate has a Winchester repeater of some kind and it is crap and loves jaming up.

Wrong That only happens if [1] you have no understanding of how to shoot the gun [2] have never shot one or [3] want to argue with one of the most sucessful designs in firearms since self contained cartridges were invented.But hey I guess ten and a half MILLION Remington pump action owners alone must be all wrong???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Having shot both semi and pumps in both hunting ,sport and security roles
for over 35 years.Id take a pump over a semi any day of the week .Semis are fine but can be load finicky,and some are more suspectible to dirt than others.A pump OTOH if it fits in the chamber and cycles in the action ,it will go bang when you pull the trigger!They will eat anything from 3.5 in magnums to ratty old reloads without a hiccup.
Some semis you have to rebuild the gun to adjust the load settings for the shells being fired.Pumps no problem.


You wont be sick of pumping and forgetting to pump as you said unless you cant remember a simple mechanical instinctive movement,[pull/push]

Maybe if you are suffering from "buck fever",and what happens is people "short stroke" the action,causing the empty not to clear the reciver and the next shell is on the lifter,causing a jam.But I've seen some semis create all sorts of different jams due to ammo load differnces from the same box of shells!!!
Otherwise anyone who has been using them for hunting to combat situations[1000times more stressful than hunting] seems to manage fine.

NOR will you be off target either, another pouplar myth.You stay mounted on the gun and cycle the action,not like somehere in Ireland who dismount and cycle the action and go through the whole,mount, lead procedure etc again.No wonder they dont hit jack sht!!:rolleyes: Ever watch westerns?Ever seen a cowboy shoot a lever action by dismounting the gun working the lever remounting and firing??You dont do that either with a pump!

I'd suggest to your mate to go and give the gun a through strip down and clean,and he will find it will work fine.Winchester is namely the great grandfather of pump designs and produced the second most sucessful pump designs ever [the Winchester 1897].Only time a pump jams is either it is so filthy that the mechanism is clogged with crud,or it has been damaged through abuse.
Otherwise they will work in situations that would choke an AK47 ,and certainly any fancy semi will be long dead.Its proably the reason most military units still use them too.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ok lets do a shoot and abuse contest to see whose is better. Your Beretta VS my Mossberg.
Start off all guns get chucked in a nice sandy,muddy puddle!! They get washed off with a hose and checked for clear barrells.We then fire 500 rounds ,various random loads out of a box at at clays or paper,non stop.Then back for a nice cooling mud bath again..Another 500 rounds..First gun with five jams looses.Standard warm up test for any military acceptance trials..

Wanna play ???

wtf are you on about lad . yes pump actions might be the best selling gun of all time , because americans buy them for looks , any one that buys a pump are normally young and think yea il get a pump there cool , then slowly realise that this is **** . If pumps are so great why can you buy them for dirt money. grizzy and id be very surprised if ya own a Pump action gun .

but how about we put 5 target up ,and see who can shoot them quicker , because this is what it comes down to when shooting ducks or game , getting that second shot off quick .

TriggerPL wrote: »

wtf are you on about lad . yes pump actions might be the best selling gun of all time , because americans buy them for looks , any one that buys a pump are normally young and think yea il get a pump there cool , then slowly realise that this is **** . If pumps are so great why can you buy them for dirt money. grizzy id be very surprised if ya own a Pump action gun .

Did you actually READ what you just wrote???Americans USE pumps ,not for their cool factor!! They have been using them since 1887!!!Also it is a WORLDwide best seller.No one gives two hoots wTF goes on in Ireland anyway,we are a minisculemarket off the UK sales if at that. I have been shooting them since I was 12 years old both pump and semis so I think I know more about them than most here.The reason you can buy them cheap is simply they are made out by ignoramasous who have never used or shot one to be ****e because they dont understand them so therefore they must be rubbish.

but how about we put 5 target up ,and see who can shoot them quicker , because this is what it comes down to when shooting ducks or game , getting that second shot off quick .

WRONG its actually HITTING the target!Not firing off ammo in some general direction of the target.

pugw wrote: »

TriggerPL wrote: »

+1 Why would you want to test a gun by sinking it in mud, IMO Pump actions are completely unsuited for hunting in this country and semis are far more effective!

To PROVE that they are tougher and will work where a semi will choke out due to the muck jamming up the action.
Everyone says they are unsuited for hunting here,but NO one has yet provided a valid reason to back this up.I've used both all my shooting life [35 plus]and unlike some armchair experts here have actual experiance of using them in both hunting,sporting and police/military usage.So I know all the pro/contra arguements and not one of the contra arguements hold water anymore for either guns.The semi still is not as reliable as the pump under extreme conditions no matter what,[maybe the benelli m2 is an exeception].

i had a beretta 391 and never problem and now iv a a400 and still no problem,.

4200fps wrote: »

And yes i fired a pump that wasn't mine and i hated it. I'm accused of owning a Beretta,yet i will be but i own a side by side and they are probably one of the fastest shotguns to load.

Heres a great example of performance.
Do it with a pump and see what happens :P
http://youtu.be/_7afW_4DoVA
If it falls in water it still works,wont rust or corrode and still fires so who's wrong here I wonder

Come back and talk to us if it survives this.
U. S.
Military Mil-Spec 3443 standards

Beretta hasnt EVER produced a gun that has survived this test!

Only guns that have survived these tests are pump actions namely both Remington and Mossberg.The Benelli M2 semi auto finally did make it pre Iraqui Freedom,but suffers like all guns from "moon dust" micro dust getting into everything contray to benellis claims.

Costs half as much as the Beretta.And any properly TREATED gun will survive 30 plus hours in fresh water no problem.IOW oil it properly.:rolleyes:
There are such finishes these days as dura,cerakote,teflon or stainless marine finishes.Dump it in SALTWATER and then you will REALLY see what will and wont work after 36 hours. Basics
Remington 870 XCS Marine Magnum is a pump action shotgun, which has a magazine capacity of 7 shells. The “XCS” stands for “Extreme Conditions Shotgun”, and means that the exterior of the gun is coated with Remington’s proprietary Black TriNyte corrosion resistant coating. Interior parts are coated with electroless nickel, and the trigger group is plated. In short, this shotgun is designed to handle conditions that would rust and corrode other shotguns, and that is why it costs about twice as much as other shotguns in the Remington 870 family. Also included with the Remington 870 XCS Marine Magnum model are a limbsaver recoil reducing pad, and a speed feeder synthetic stock which stores 4 additional shells. The cylinder bore barrel is 18″ long.
Build Quality
The Remington 870 XCS Marine Magnum is a high quality firearm, and it is clear that Remington put plenty of care into its construction. Unlike some of the 870 Express shotguns which have a plastic safety, the 870 XCS Marine Magnum has a durable metal safety. The TriNyte corrosion resistant coating is evenly applied, and the finish of the gun is flawless. The action is smooth and loading shells is easy. In fact, the only complaint that I have relates to one of the pins holding my trigger group in place: The smaller of the pins requires gentle tapping with a hammer to remove it, while the larger one can be taped out with less effort. I don’t consider this to be a huge problem.
Reliability
After firing about 3,000 shells, ranging from birdshot, buckshot, low recoil buckshot, and 3″ magnum slugs, I have not had a single problem. Every shell of the various varieties and manufacturers have fired, and the 870 XCS Marine Magnum loaded/ejected them properly

Bottom line side by sides , o/u and semi's will get that second shot out faster . The only hunting I enjoyed with my pump was fox shoots . Nothing feels more man ly than pumping and firing but for duck or game where you get one or two ducks in a flight , they just don't make the cut .

4200fps wrote: »

What do you mean its the safest shotgun to have? Its the responsibility of the shooter to make a gun safe is what i thought in the FCA

True enough,and I think Friend Spunk meant that they are as safe as a broken Dbbl if you understand the action and how it works.Most people dont,and thats why there is this irrational fear of these types of guns safty.If the slide is all the way back its jamming the firing mechanism,and with no shell on the lifter,absolutely nothing is going to happen until a shell is put in battery and the slide closed.So with no shell on the lifter you have to conciously double rack the gun to load from the mag.
Ditto with a semi,without a shell anywhere near the chamber and out of battery nothing is going to happen.

. You stick with your pump if your happy with it and yes I fired a pump and I did not like it at all.

This pumping crack drives me mad and if you forget to pump the bird lives and every time you pump your off target and have to redirect the sight back on the bird/target which wastes time. Duck do fly at 40mph easy on a windy night/morning flight.

Hmm.Thats generally when I shoot duck with mine as well with no problem either!:D
I think you have a PERSONAL problem with the gun type rather than the than the actual design to be honest ???;)
And the reason is simply I dont think you have been shown how to use one properly,which is about 75% of people here in Ireland who have shot them.
First problem is you forgetting to pump...It sounds like you used a semi a lot before?:)And a Pavlovian response is to forget you have to pump the gun.
2nd Coming off target is proably from the first problem of forgetting to pump.You are getting flusterd and losing nano seconds in trying to refigure what to do.Take your time in a hurry as the gun fighters used to say.
Remember to do it like this,all the way back to the stop,all the way forward to the stop and fire on hitting the stop!A bit of practise and you can shoot as fast with a semi,Seriously!!

But then its maybe not for you personally?But thats no reason to DISS the gun in its entireity to the World.

I dont like cottage cheese ,but I sure as Hell wont tell everyone dont eat that horrible muck as I personally dont like it,so it must be bad!!!.