Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

deisebhoy17 · 01-04-2012 10:12pm

doz wrote: »

One thing that is still unsolved at the end of our league campaign is who we will play at centre forward come June. We've tried a number of players with varying degrees of success. The Brick experiment didn't work, Seamus and Shane did alright when played there, whereas although he worked hard and played ok today, Paudie Mahony is not a centre forward. Who would people's preferred choice at CF be? Has Dean Twomey played CF at all for De La Salle? He caught a lot of good ball today and might be an option.

Agreed there are plenty other positions unsolved aswell. Id say If you asked Michael Ryan tonight what his championship starting 15 is hed struggle to give you a definate answer in a lot of positions and considering this new league system gives us no more competitive games until the start of the championship in 11 weeks time its not ideal. In one sense the teams in relegation finals are at an advantage of having another competitive game under their belts!
It really is a ridiculous league system I dont understand the logic for example how can clare have a 100% record yet have to play off with Limerick for a place in the semi finals. it will count for nothing if they get beat. If you win a league why should you ultimately have to playoff with second place to be crowned champions? Anyway theres nothing we can do about that.

Just back to todays game its important we realise we have a lot of work to do. Its great for confidence that weve turned it around and avoided relegation but weve been lucky that we met a Dublin team that basically didnt try and more or less gave us the game. Anyone at the game today will agree with me they were very poor up until late in the game when we worryingly let them back into it.Anyway, upwards and onwards

Mountainlad · 01-04-2012 10:31pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Agreed there are plenty other positions unsolved aswell. Id say If you asked Michael Ryan tonight what his championship starting 15 is hed struggle to give you a definate answer in a lot of positions and considering this new league system gives us no more competitive games until the start of the championship in 11 weeks time its not ideal. In one sense the teams in relegation finals are at an advantage of having another competitive game under their belts!
It really is a ridiculous league system I dont understand the logic for example how can clare have a 100% record yet have to play off with Limerick for a place in the semi finals. it will count for nothing if they get beat. If you win a league why should you ultimately have to playoff with second place to be crowned champions? Anyway theres nothing we can do about that.

Just back to todays game its important we realise we have a lot of work to do. Its great for confidence that weve turned it around and avoided relegation but weve been lucky that we met a Dublin team that basically didnt try and more or less gave us the game. Anyone at the game today will agree with me they were very poor up until late in the game when we worryingly let them back into it.Anyway, upwards and onwards

I disagree. I think the backline will certainly have four of the players that were there today. I expect when Fives and Connors return they'll be back in. I see no reason to upset a midfield that has fucntioned really well in the past two games. The full forward line looks like the one that will line out in the championship.

Maurice Shanahan is a definite starter in the half forward line. Molumphy is likely to be there too.

So I'd say you have 12 or 13 places decided now. Of course it all hinges on injuries anyway, which may force the managements hand, but I think we are actually in a pretty good position in terms of knowing are starting 15.

One thing I'd have to say though is that we could be in serious trouble if Lawlor gets injurede. I just don't see who else can play there.

Royal Legend · 01-04-2012 10:42pm

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Fair play to Waterford, didn't look really troubled at any stage today and look to have a good young team coming through so I'm delighted they'll have 1A hurling again next year. Twomey looked fantastic today, as did Gavin O'Brien (especially in the first half). A good enthusiastic crowd in Dungarvan too, which was nice to see.

Tough to see how the Dublin team has disintegrated this year through injuries, today's team was just a shell of a team really with so many key men missing for various reasons (Ryan, Rushe, Hiney, Brady, Keaney, Schutte, Kelly, McCormack, Boland, McCrabbe, Sutcliffe not starting etc...) That said, we'll have no excuses now in two weeks time against Galway and it really is do or die.

However...

As was made quite clear when the ridiculous league system was announced, this is going to benefit nobody in the long run. A top division without Dublin or Galway (or Clare, Limerick, Offaly...) doesn't benefit hurling as a sport. I'm not saying this now because Dublin are at risk of relegation, but it has to be said yet again. How are the weaker or fringe counties supposed to improve to a level where they can be competitive in this system?

or Wexford for that matter,

The same people are making the same stupid decisions in regards to the development of hurling nationwide

deisebhoy17 · 01-04-2012 10:57pm

willietherock wrote: »

Any sign if Brian O Halloran? One of the best minors of the last couple of yrs. No disrespect to Eoin McGrath but he's not good enough. Waterford's halfforward line looks v weak.

Hes been injured again. Dosent look as if he'll get much of a look in this year either. I agree about the half forward line though. Theres a strong case for Seamus Prendergast at centre forward. Strong physical presence and good at breaking up play. the kind of player you only realise what he brings when hes not there.

Cake Man · 01-04-2012 11:00pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

I disagree. I think the backline will certainly have four of the players that were there today. I expect when Fives and Connors return they'll be back in. I see no reason to upset a midfield that has fucntioned really well in the past two games. The full forward line looks like the one that will line out in the championship.

Maurice Shanahan is a definite starter in the half forward line. Molumphy is likely to be there too.

So I'd say you have 12 or 13 places decided now. Of course it all hinges on injuries anyway, which may force the managements hand, but I think we are actually in a pretty good position in terms of knowing are starting 15.

One thing I'd have to say though is that we could be in serious trouble if Lawlor gets injurede. I just don't see who else can play there.

Yeah I'd reckon at least 10 places are already known anyway, I still don't know though who to play on goal. For me, it's either Power or SOK, both have done well when given their chances and I think that's one of the big disadvantages now of not having any more games that we can't get more looks at the two lads.
Also, we still don't seem to have a nailed down free-taker. Will it be Paudric, Maurice, Martin O'Neill or Kelly?

Would agree with hoping Lawlor stays fit, he did well today and wouldn't like the thought of throwing someone else in at this stage.

dugger · 01-04-2012 11:08pm

I wouldn't get too carried away, having watched Tipp V Cork and the display Killkenny put in against Galway we are not at the races we don't score enough and concede too much, We are very lucky to be playing in division 1A next year let's be frank and unless things change dramatically we will have a short summer as much as I hate to say it.

Hslaw · 01-04-2012 11:15pm

we really need to find another full back, lawlor is doing a fine job.and by far is our best choice.done very well today,and put manners on asike o halpin back in 2010.twice.but as ye say if he gets injured were f**ked. surely some in the county can play full back as well.i mean how many clubs have we that have full backs ? and are they that bad that we cant pick a second FB for the county team ?

Black Suir · 01-04-2012 11:20pm

doz wrote: »

One thing that is still unsolved at the end of our league campaign is who we will play at centre forward come June. We've tried a number of players with varying degrees of success. The Brick experiment didn't work, Seamus and Shane did alright when played there, whereas although he worked hard and played ok today, Paudie Mahony is not a centre forward. Who would people's preferred choice at CF be? Has Dean Twomey played CF at all for De La Salle? He caught a lot of good ball today and might be an option.

My money would be on Maurice with Molumphy and Mahony on the wings.

Black Suir · 01-04-2012 11:27pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Agree completely. While it has been a plus to have so much at stake in the last round of league games this season - only one 'dead rubber' in todays games in 1A and 1B. There are serious issues, firstly like you said above 6 team 1A is too low, and doesnt do hurling any favours.

Secondly the teams finishing 4th in 1A (Waterford), 3rd and 4th in 1B (Offaly, Antrim) are left with a crazy gap from 1st April until the championship with no competitve games. That is crazy and unfair on those teams. In our case its an 11 week gap now till we face Clare in the Munster Championship.

Agree that six teams in division one is not right, but is it also right to have teams like CLare, Limerick, Antrim, Offaly or Wexford up in the top division if they are and they could get a few hammerings. These sides have a number of young players and if they were to get two or three hammerings it could do them more damage than it could do them good to be playing the top players week in week out. They might be better off getting games against counties that are around their own level. The six counties that played division one this year, nobody could dispute that they are the best six counties right now, and the six behind them are also fairly evenly matched but some bit off the top six. In saying that they could beat any of them on a given day, but dont think they would stay with them for six or seven rounds of the league.

Black Suir · 01-04-2012 11:29pm

willietherock wrote: »

Any sign if Brian O Halloran? One of the best minors of the last couple of yrs. No disrespect to Eoin McGrath but he's not good enough. Waterford's halfforward line looks v weak.

IS he on the panel.

Hslaw · 01-04-2012 11:30pm

i think S prendy in CF. just for winning ball and for he's shear mass and strength,good on the tussel and braking ball. and leave him lay it of to the lads on the wings so they can take the points, cos lets be honest he's blind as a bat,get's the odd few points from time to time.

Mountainlad · 01-04-2012 11:39pm

dugger wrote: »

I wouldn't get too carried away, having watched Tipp V Cork and the display Killkenny put in against Galway we are not at the races we don't score enough and concede too much, We are very lucky to be playing in division 1A next year let's be frank and unless things change dramatically we will have a short summer as much as I hate to say it.

I don't know that that's true. If you looked at the league at the start of the year, you would say that three of Waterford, Cork, Galway and Dublin would be battling it out. We beat Galway and Dublin, and they have finished below us. So how do we not deserve to have stayed up?

Can't believe you could be so negative about our chances for the year given the dramatic turn around we've already seen in the past two games.

We could yet have a great summer or a bad one, but who knows. A lot of hurling to be done. A lot of preparation to be done. We just be happy that we avoided relegation, which many onlookers said we would be doomed to before the campaign even started never mind after the first three games.

solarith · 02-04-2012 2:29am

Black Suir wrote: »

IS he on the panel.

Still suffering from last years freak injury, currently withdrawn from panel to recover.

scoring forward · 02-04-2012 8:35am

B O H played an u21 challenge v tipp yesterday was ok but for me paul power was one of the most impressive forward that waterford had plus john dee at center back and j barron at corner back

Deise Hurler · 02-04-2012 9:19am

Hslaw wrote: »

we really need to find another full back, lawlor is doing a fine job.and by far is our best choice.done very well today,and put manners on asike o halpin back in 2010.twice.but as ye say if he gets injured were f**ked. surely some in the county can play full back as well.i mean how many clubs have we that have full backs ? and are they that bad that we cant pick a second FB for the county team ?

Shane Fives is a fine full back. Did well in the crystal match vs Clare but hasn't been given a chance since. In fact he has been on the panel since 98 and has got very little game time. Still only aged about 22/23.

Deise Hurler · 02-04-2012 9:24am

scoring forward wrote: »

B O H played an u21 challenge v tipp yesterday was ok but for me paul power was one of the most impressive forward that waterford had plus john dee at center back and j barron at corner back

You wouldn't happen to have the team from that match. Should be a good under 21 team this year. Also if anyone has the teams from the gleeson cup match yesterday could they post it up. Always interesting to see what new lads are coming through.

Royal Legend · 02-04-2012 9:37am

I made this prediction a long time ago, after watching him through the juvenile ranks and once he is not pushed too hard too soon, Gavin O'Brien will end up on a par with the Tony Browns and Ken McGraths of this world, in fact I would go as far to say on a par with the Henry Shefflins and Tommy Walsh's.
I also think that he is the closest player I have seen to Tommy Walsh in a Waterford jersey, he is actually extremely comfortable at wing or centre back, midfield, wing or centre forward or any of the full forward positions, hence the comparison to Tommy. His attitude and workrate is 100%, and his skill level is as good as anything I have ever seen. What he lacks in physical speed, he makes up for with mental speed, and he reads the game extremely well. He is also a lethal finisher.
I just hope that he is not being thrown in too early in his senior career

mccarthy37 · 02-04-2012 9:54am

Royal Legend wrote: »

I made this prediction a long time ago, after watching him through the juvenile ranks and once he is not pushed too hard too soon, Gavin O'Brien will end up on a par with the Tony Browns and Ken McGraths of this world, in fact I would go as far to say on a par with the Henry Shefflins and Tommy Walsh's.
I also think that he is the closest player I have seen to Tommy Walsh in a Waterford jersey, he is actually extremely comfortable at wing or centre back, midfield, wing or centre forward or any of the full forward positions, hence the comparison to Tommy. His attitude and workrate is 100%, and his skill level is as good as anything I have ever seen. What he lacks in physical speed, he makes up for with mental speed, and he reads the game extremely well. He is also a lethal finisher.
I just hope that he is not being thrown in too early in his senior career

Gavin is a great prospect for us ,his parent's hail from Kilmacow so you can see where the hurling pedigree comes from.

lovelypoint · 02-04-2012 10:38am

dugger wrote: »

I wouldn't get too carried away, having watched Tipp V Cork and the display Killkenny put in against Galway we are not at the races we don't score enough and concede too much, We are very lucky to be playing in division 1A next year let's be frank and unless things change dramatically we will have a short summer as much as I hate to say it.

Spot on, agree 100%. We did as best we could this last week or two, and thankfully avoided the serious threat of relegation, but battling spirit aside, the team play we have see so far this league is nowhere near good enough, and think most will agree we have an awful lot of work to do between now and June. 10 weeks though, and the opportunity to use some serious challenge matches to hone our championship challenege though, should hopefully see us in a much stronger position come Clare.

lovelypoint · 02-04-2012 10:49am

Hslaw wrote: »

i think S prendy in CF. just for winning ball and for he's shear mass and strength,good on the tussel and braking ball. and leave him lay it of to the lads on the wings so they can take the points, cos lets be honest he's blind as a bat,get's the odd few points from time to time.

Agree. Just like the full back position, I think it is high time for someone to be moulded into an effective player at centreforward. Doesn't have to be pretty, just as long as it is effective, and someone like Seamus might be suited well to the role, if he can concentrate on winning ball, making smart decisions re:distribution, playing/ passing good ball to our forwards, and all in all, being a selfless centreforward and leaving others take the scores. The only thing I would worry about would be that his match brain and handpassing is not quick enough, to lay off the ball quickly, effectively and dangerously as soon as he has won it. He would also have to improve on maintaining possession, as his wind up means he is often so easily hooked.

In any case, I would like to see management try it, and see if it yields fruit, as we need to get the most out of Seamus in his twilight years, and this would be one of the most promising ways to do it, in my opinion.

Either that, or we play a loose, tormenting forward at centreforward, someone that will tease, torment and roam and cause a nightmare for opposition centrebacks. Someone that may not necessarily be great in the air, or expected to win primary ball in the air, but rather someone that can sweep between the 45 to midfield, and hoover up good ball to cause havoc. Think we have a few players that could play this sort of role, but we would also need someone good in the air on the wings, so we have some sort of target(s) for high ball deliveries.

lovelypoint · 02-04-2012 10:55am

Royal Legend wrote: »

I made this prediction a long time ago, after watching him through the juvenile ranks and once he is not pushed too hard too soon, Gavin O'Brien will end up on a par with the Tony Browns and Ken McGraths of this world, in fact I would go as far to say on a par with the Henry Shefflins and Tommy Walsh's.
I also think that he is the closest player I have seen to Tommy Walsh in a Waterford jersey, he is actually extremely comfortable at wing or centre back, midfield, wing or centre forward or any of the full forward positions, hence the comparison to Tommy. His attitude and workrate is 100%, and his skill level is as good as anything I have ever seen. What he lacks in physical speed, he makes up for with mental speed, and he reads the game extremely well. He is also a lethal finisher.
I just hope that he is not being thrown in too early in his senior career

Have to agree, looks a smashing player, and having a great season, taking to senior like a duck to water. Had seen him a few times at minor, but have to say I have not been as impressed as I have been these last few weeks. Also seems to be improving from game to game, and with others such as Conor Lehane and Danny Sutcliffe catching the eye of the media, Gavin is creeping under the media radar, which could be very much to his benefit, keeping the pressure off. Think we could see a lot more of him come the summer, and must say his point yesterday from Tony Brownes delivery was simply sublime.

deiseach · 02-04-2012 11:00am

Anyone care to say we'd have been better off had we lost and could look forward to winning a few matches in Division 1B next season?

lovelypoint · 02-04-2012 11:37am

deiseach wrote: »

Anyone care to say we'd have been better off had we lost and could look forward to winning a few matches in Division 1B next season?

Ha ha, with our lethargic attitude towards the league, we would never have gotten out of 1B had we dropped down

In all though, nice to joke about now, but major relief knowing we are staying up. Definite claims for jammiest team in league hurling this year, but when it came down to it last weekend and this weekend, the lads pulled out the stops, so we have definitely deserved our retention of 1A hurling!

deiseach · 02-04-2012 11:38am

lovelypoint wrote: »

Ha ha, with our lethargic attitude towards the league, we would never have gotten out of 1B had we dropped down

In all though, nice to joke about now, but major relief knowing we are staying up. Definite claims for jammiest team in league hurling this year, but when it came down to it last weekend and this weekend, the lads pulled out the stops, so we have definitely deserved our retention of 1A hurling!

We were lucky all right. Isn't it great!

MrJoeSoap · 02-04-2012 1:36pm

lovelypoint wrote: »

Definite claims for jammiest team in league hurling this year

Possibly so, but a deserved victory yesterday and a good win away to Galway (didn't see it but read a few reports) are enough to keep ye in the top division and whilst it might seem jammy after losing the first three games against the top three, you finished fourth on merit.

Slightly off-topic, is there any reason why the football and hurling wasn't a double header at the weekend?

chinguetti · 02-04-2012 1:43pm

The one thing i'ld worry about is that the team appear to fade badly in the second half of matches, apart from Galway. Some might be due to fitness but they seem to fall asleep mentally as well.

I think they are a fair bit behind what they need to be for 10 weeks time but at least they know it themselves so its time for a bit of serious training to get them up to speed.

And will they let them play some club championships matches as well, nothing like a few matches to get them up to pace allied with the training.

Psychedelic · 02-04-2012 2:03pm

Great article about Tony Browne from the Sunday Independent:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/dermot-crowe-endurance-born-of-passion-3067645.html

hardybuck · 02-04-2012 2:12pm

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Slightly off-topic, is there any reason why the football and hurling wasn't a double header at the weekend?

Would love to get a straight answer on this as well. The CB will say that they invested in lights, and wanted to make use of them. They will probably also claim that many people would have gone to both games and they increased revenue in the process.

However, normally only a couple of hundred go to football games. It would have been a great opportunity to reward the footballers efforts this year, to promote the team, and to offer patrons value for money.

lovelypoint · 02-04-2012 2:19pm

deiseach wrote: »

We were lucky all right. Isn't it great!

Ha ha, its a nice feeling all right, lol. My only hope is that all this is, is us getting the luck we deserved in the past and never got, rather than using up all our future luck!

deiseach · 02-04-2012 2:50pm

chinguetti wrote: »

The one thing i'ld worry about is that the team appear to fade badly in the second half of matches, apart from Galway. Some might be due to fitness but they seem to fall asleep mentally as well.

I agree, they went to sleep in the second half. Bringing on Stephen Daniels for Liam Lawlor at half-time smacked of complacency. In fairness Dublin never really looked like overhauling us so you could argue they got it right, but we really should have put the boot down, not freewheeled to the finish

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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