Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

mecco

deiseach wrote: »

I agree, they went to sleep in the second half. Bringing on Stephen Daniels for Liam Lawlor at half-time smacked of complacency. In fairness Dublin never really looked like overhauling us so you could argue they got it right, but we really should have put the boot down, not freewheeled to the finish

Wasn't this done out of necessity though? I thought Lawlor was taken off with a knee injury?

MrJoeSoap

mecco wrote: »

Wasn't this done out of necessity though? I thought Lawlor was taken off with a knee injury?

He was, he was well strapped up and limping.

deiseach

mecco wrote: »

Wasn't this done out of necessity though? I thought Lawlor was taken off with a knee injury?

Fair enough, I thought they were 'experimenting'

Mountainlad

lovelypoint wrote: »

Ha ha, its a nice feeling all right, lol. My only hope is that all this is, is us getting the luck we deserved in the past and never got, rather than using up all our future luck!

I don't think there's a quota on luck to be honest. Hope not anyway

KevIRL

Lawlor was carrying an injury, and to be fair daniels did pretty well in his time on the field

Your u21s played us in a challenge in Dr Morris yesterday and i have to say ye were real unlucky not to beat us. 4 point margin flattered us in the end. have to say i was very impressed with Fergal Hartley and his management team on the sideline. Great positivity and encouragement offered to the players throughout. Not one bit of criticism aimed at his players. Great to see really

suitcasepink

Deleted User wrote: »

Your u21s played us in a challenge in Dr Morris yesterday and i have to say ye were real unlucky not to beat us. 4 point margin flattered us in the end. have to say i was very impressed with Fergal Hartley and his management team on the sideline. Great positivity and encouragement offered to the players throughout. Not one bit of criticism aimed at his players. Great to see really

Any list of Waterford players by any chance?

deise_girl

deise_girl wrote: »

Any list of Waterford players by any chance?

Sorry i havent im afraid. Havent even the tipp lineup . I know that jake dillon was playing anyhow and he looks a decent prospect

23 points to 2-13 it ended.

deisebhoy17

Deise Hurler wrote: »

You wouldn't happen to have the team from that match. Should be a good under 21 team this year.

Got a tough draw against Clare who would be one of the outright favourites though. No easy games in Munster though I suppose Cork, Tipp and Limerick will be equally as strong. We won the Munster minor 3 years ago so that team would be up to the age now and weve had a couple decent minor teams after that aswell so heres hoping

deisebhoy17

Royal Legend wrote: »

I made this prediction a long time ago, after watching him through the juvenile ranks and once he is not pushed too hard too soon, Gavin O'Brien will end up on a par with the Tony Browns and Ken McGraths of this world, in fact I would go as far to say on a par with the Henry Shefflins and Tommy Walsh's.
I also think that he is the closest player I have seen to Tommy Walsh in a Waterford jersey, he is actually extremely comfortable at wing or centre back, midfield, wing or centre forward or any of the full forward positions, hence the comparison to Tommy. His attitude and workrate is 100%, and his skill level is as good as anything I have ever seen. What he lacks in physical speed, he makes up for with mental speed, and he reads the game extremely well. He is also a lethal finisher.
I just hope that he is not being thrown in too early in his senior career

Steady on there horse! A couple decent league performances and your comparing him to Tommy Walsh and Henry Shefflin... I would be more worried about that kind of talk than about him being thrown in too early. if your good enough your old enough

deisebhoy17

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Gavin is a great prospect for us ,his parent's hail from Kilmacow so you can see where the hurling pedigree comes from.

Well id be more inclined to put it down to being the product of a fine traditional hurling club in waterford and he is testament to the good work thats being done by them at underage level with many years, rather than crediting the fact that he has connections to a small junior club across the river in Kilkenny

scoring forward

deise_girl wrote: »

Any list of Waterford players by any chance?

Team included Jake Dillon,Eamon murphy,Eoin madigan,Ray barry but as with any challenge lots of changes.

Cake Man

Encouraging with that U21 game as tipp_Gunner described as the likes of Martin O'Neill, Darragh Fives, Paudric and Philip Mahony, Gavin O'Brien, Dean Twomey, Paudi Prendergast, Stephen O'Keeffe and possibly David O'Sullivan and Stephen Daniels (if they're still underage this year) will all most likely start against Clare in the U21 championship in July.

Agree about GOB, I remember watching him captain the Tony Forristal winning team in '07 and getting man of the match in that final and thinking how he'd go on to be a good prospect, didn't think it would be so soon but as another poster mentioned, if you're good enough, you're old enough.

Black Suir

hardybuck wrote: »

Would love to get a straight answer on this as well. The CB will say that they invested in lights, and wanted to make use of them. They will probably also claim that many people would have gone to both games and they increased revenue in the process.

However, normally only a couple of hundred go to football games. It would have been a great opportunity to reward the footballers efforts this year, to promote the team, and to offer patrons value for money.

I am told by a good source that what the county board put in for the cost of the lights was very small. Munster/Central Council are supposed to have put in the most money as they want the ground developed as they see it as the ideal venue (historically and regionally) to play Under 21 Junior and Intermediate Munster and All-Ireland finals and games in between the two as well. They are also supposed to see it as a venue where minor All-ireland semi final and final replays could be played if required.

Black Suir

deiseach wrote: »

I agree, they went to sleep in the second half. Bringing on Stephen Daniels for Liam Lawlor at half-time smacked of complacency. In fairness Dublin never really looked like overhauling us so you could argue they got it right, but we really should have put the boot down, not freewheeled to the finish

It was after half time and he had picked up an injury. Who would you have sent on to replace him.

Black Suir

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Got a tough draw against Clare who would be one of the outright favourites though. No easy games in Munster though I suppose Cork, Tipp and Limerick will be equally as strong. We won the Munster minor 3 years ago so that team would be up to the age now and weve had a couple decent minor teams after that aswell so heres hoping

I can see a number of that minor team three years ago not playing any part in this years under 21 team. There is some better minors after coming through since then, then what was on the 09 team.

Black Suir

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Steady on there horse! A couple decent league performances and your comparing him to Tommy Walsh and Henry Shefflin... I would be more worried about that kind of talk than about him being thrown in too early. if your good enough your old enough

Agree with you. We have some people in this county who see a good underage player coming throught and all of a sudden, some of our supports are comparing them to the likes of Ring, Mackey, Flynn, Carey, Shefflin, Walsh, English etc. We should be leaving the players develop rather than putting un-necessary pressure on them with silly comparrisions.

glick6

Aside from obviously retaining league status, the extra couple of weeks lay off might now help them along. I think it's been acknowledged by management, players and us watching the matches that fitness levels aren't what they should be for this time of the year. I assume they're going to get straight into another heavy set of physical training. Ten weeks now until championship so they can afford to give at least 5-6 weeks with an increased intensity. The situation isn't ideal and I really hope that the increased load/intensity doesn't lead to any more injuries.

Competition for places now seems to be hotting up and this is key to increasing intensity/determination/focus. Not so long back I don't think most of us would have been considering Dean Twomey as a possible starting midfielder but his last two performances have shown he has the potential. I liked his physical presence on Sunday, he caught decent ball and when he gets going he has a decent bit of pace. The obvious weakness in his game at the moment is decision making/composure. Three times yesterday he soloed into two players and lost possession with options on as well as throwing a ball up in a Dub players face when he was on his own 45 in the second half ending up in a Dub free.

SOK and Power are neck and neck for the goal at this stage. I can't see Iggy getting another chance. Last three games, no goals conceded, no mistakes from either keeper. A couple of decent saves and good distribution from both. Two huge puckouts too which is good to see. At the moment its a toss up but to be honest I'd be happy with either of them, possibly edging towards SOK just because I've seen more of him.

The spine of defence is a certainty now, provided Liam Lawlor can be kept injury free. His left knee has been heavily strapped in all games he has played this year and I noted his right knee was strapped also when he came back out for the second half yesterday and it seemed it was his right knee he was having more trouble with. I hope the medical staff can get him right as we don't seem to have anyone else to command the fullback spot like him. What are our other options? Bring Daragh Fives back again? Fall back on Dec Pender? I doubt Daragh would be too happy being moved again, particularly after the hard time he had against Cork. Stephen Daniels I thought did OK when he was brought on but he was being dragged right out the field so was nearly playing more as a wingback than anything else.

Ringo has been consistently tight over the last few games in the corner and I think Phil Mahony again showed yesterday that he is a serious option at corner back. Niall McMorrow seemed to be dragging Philip around quite a lot and maybe that suited him when he's use to wingback. The first ball that went in his corner, he got stung for pace but he wasn't caught again after that and he also did some good cleaning up when he was acting as the free man for a period. Noel Connors, if fit and sharp would obviously be a shoein for cornerback. By my reckoning he is now exactly six weeks since being brought off against Limerick. I'm not 100% sure as I heard this second hand but apparently he is hoping to start back light training in the next week or two. This would be excellent news and if its true fair dues to himself and the physios/medical. If he was to start back light training even in three weeks, that would leave seven weeks to get fit and match sharp. That's certainly not unrealistic. But as I said, I heard that second hand.

Brick at centre back is a no-brainer. Class act. We're blessed with options on the wings. Currently it's two from Daragh Fives, Tony and Shane O'Sullivan. Daragh played very well against Galway but he needs more gametime, in my opinion, to get in ahead of the other two as things stand. You've also got David O'Sullivan and Jamie Nagle, although it would now seem that Jamie is down the pecking order behind David, having been a starter for the first few games.

Midfield has looked better the past two games with Moran and Twomey. Very impressed in particular with Moran's workrate, he seemed to be everywhere the past two games. Paul O'Brien, I noted, wasn't listed yesterday. So either he is injured or appears also to have fallen down the order. Molumphy is better used in the half-forward line. Gavin O'Brien came out midfield for a while against Galway and did well and he could well be an option if required. His distribution, I'm sure would be pretty decent.

The general concensus is that centre forward is our problem position. There are options but each option probably means modifying gameplan. Personally I think Paudie has done OK in the past two games. I feel he could grow into a strong centre forward with time. With Paudie you get a very good hurling brain and good decision making/passing. He has a certain amount of physicality too. If it's primary possession you're after then Seamus' has strength and serious ability to win ball. Molumphy brings more of a running game and I probaly think he's better suited to wing. At the moment I'd go with Paudie at centre, two games at centre forward and two wins? Why not! Maurice continues to improve and can be very dangerous at times. With a bit more consistency and if he can get over his tack for fading in and out of games he can go very far, he's a certain starter on the wing. Molumphy on the other wing for me, the determination and aggression he brings is fantastic and he is a real leader out there.

The full forward line is the easiest line to pick. Mullane had a tough day at the office yesterday but he's not yet match fit so that will bring him on for sure. Shane Walsh was quiet but is still very dangerous at full forward when going well. I still think that Seamus has something to give at full forward if more of a primary possession winner was needed in there. Gavin O'Brien is probably the most consistent player so far this year. Stepped up to the mark big time. What I like most about him is his attitude. Always listening, takes everything in, it's easy to forget his age. His stickwork is beautiful to watch. First to the ball, one/two touches, a quick turn and over the bar with great accuracy. No messing round. Martin O'Neill has done nothing wrong at all and he gives cover for corner and wing forward. Eoin Kelly showed some of that promise yesterday and we'll see how he manages himself now over the coming weeks. Great impact sub to have anyways. I have a sneaky feeling that Jake Dillon will see a bit mo time at some stage and will show his potential.

Things have turned around hugely over the past 8 days. There may have been some luck in there but it's obvious something has changed. Having been at both the last two games and watching the sideline closely, it's apparent that Ken is having a lot of input into decisions made during the game. We know Ken has a super hurling brain and maybe this is what was missing the first few games. Someone to analyse things in real time and make changes/offer advice etc immediately instead of humming and hawing. In fairness he knows what it takes to win hurling matches. No disrespect to Nicky Cashin, a gentleman, but for me he was too quiet on the sideline, standing in the background. He appeared to be closely analysing things but didn't really seem to contribute an awful lot to in match decisions.

Anyway, not going to get carried away. Things are certainly looking far better than previous to the Galway game. We have time now to go and try rectify some of the big issues that are standing out. You can be sure now that Clare aren't half as confident as they were two/three weeks ago. They'll probably have two more tough games over the next couple weeks now too. Could bring them on more or there's always the possibility of injuries etc.

Now, what to do until June?!

Also, forgot to say. If my timings are correct Wayne Hutchinson and Richie Foley should be returning to full training in the next four weeks. More competition!

The blue blaa

Cake Man wrote: »

Encouraging with that U21 game as tipp_Gunner described as the likes of Martin O'Neill, Darragh Fives, Paudric and Philip Mahony, Gavin O'Brien, Dean Twomey, Paudi Prendergast, Stephen O'Keeffe and possibly David O'Sullivan and Stephen Daniels (if they're still underage this year) will all most likely start against Clare in the U21 championship in July.

Agree about GOB, I remember watching him captain the Tony Forristal winning team in '07 and getting man of the match in that final and thinking how he'd go on to be a good prospect, didn't think it would be so soon but as another poster mentioned, if you're good enough, you're old enough.

Dean Twomey is 24 this year,Stephen Daniels is 22 this year Philip Mahony and Paudie are definitely over age aswell this years under 21 is the minor team that won the Munster title,I'm nearly certain those players are all over age. The DLS lads would only be Eoin Madigan and Jake dillon.

glick6

The blue blaa wrote: »

Dean Twomey is 24 this year,Stephen Daniels is 22 this year Philip Mahony and Paudie are definitely over age aswell this years under 21 is the minor team that won the Munster title,I'm nearly certain those players are all over age. The DLS lads would only be Eoin Madigan and Jake dillon.

Both Paudie and Philip Mahony are definitely underage.

http://www.tipperarystar.ie/sport/gaelic-games/munster-minor-hurling-final-tipp-outclassed-by-slick-waterford-waterford-0-18-tipperary-1-13-1-2270611

Thats the 2009 Munster Minor winning team.

deiseach

Black Suir wrote: »

It was after half time and he had picked up an injury. Who would you have sent on to replace him.

I didn't know he was injured which is why I thought it was a weird change. No issues with Daniels coming on in the circumstances.

The blue blaa

glick6 wrote: »

Both Paudie and Philip Mahony are definitely underage.

http://www.tipperarystar.ie/sport/gaelic-games/munster-minor-hurling-final-tipp-outclassed-by-slick-waterford-waterford-0-18-tipperary-1-13-1-2270611

Thats the 2009 Munster Minor winning team.

I Stand corrected so

deisebhoy17

The blue blaa wrote: »

Dean Twomey is 24 this year,Stephen Daniels is 22 this year Philip Mahony and Paudie are definitely over age aswell this years under 21 is the minor team that won the Munster title,I'm nearly certain those players are all over age. The DLS lads would only be Eoin Madigan and Jake dillon.

Your right abt Dean Twomey and Daniels your completly wrong abt everything else!!

Cake Man

The blue blaa wrote: »

I Stand corrected so

You're probably right about Twomey being overage but I could have sworn I saw him training with the U21's a few weeks ago. Although in saying that, the seniors and U21's usually train at the same time on the same night so players eligible for both can be used for either where necessary.

deisebhoy17

Cake Man wrote: »

You're probably right about Twomey being overage but I could have sworn I saw him training with the U21's a few weeks ago. Although in saying that, the seniors and U21's usually train at the same time on the same night so players eligible for both can be used for either where necessary.

ah so dats why i saw tony browne playing with the u21s the other week was thinkin hes overage this year arite

deiseach

Match report here

DublinGAA96

What sort of the team have the minors this year lads? Will they go all the way or win out Munster? On another note, have to agree GOB looks a superb talent, some of the scores he got were just super, out in front turn the corner back and stick it over. A traditional corner forward score. If he keeps going hard he will be a major hurler for Waterford as he gets older.

Mountainlad

Twomey and Daniels, as mentioned, are overage. David O'Sullivan is also over age since 2009. Paudi Mahony will still be available for the u21s next year.

Of last years starting team against Tipp they have: Stephen O'Keeffe, Paudi Prender, Darragh Fives, Jamie Barron, Philip Mahoney, Martin O'Neill, Stephen Roche, Paudi Mahoney, Eamon Murphy and Jake Dillon (10 in all)

Brian O'Halloran will also be available having missed last year. Then Senior Inter County players such as Eoin Madigan, John Dee and of course Gavin O'Brien (who missed the match dues to his leaving cert) will also be there, as well as plenty of other good young lads. The makings of a fine team.

DublinGAA96 wrote: »

What sort of the team have the minors this year lads? Will they go all the way or win out Munster? On another note, have to agree GOB looks a superb talent, some of the scores he got were just super, out in front turn the corner back and stick it over. A traditional corner forward score. If he keeps going hard he will be a major hurler for Waterford as he gets older.

They have lost some very good players but there will be some good players from Coláiste na Déise so they could be good. Always hard to tell with minors.

kildare9

Will Thomas Ryan get a run with the seniors this year? a real good U21 hurler, good eye for goal.

hardybuck

How far are we off Munster championship at this point - 10 weeks? Seriously long gap, and Clare will have had a couple of good league games in that time themselves. Ideal opportunity for the CB to play a few rounds of the club championships which would benefit everyone in the county.

As for Thomas Ryan - personally I don't think he's up to scratch at all. Some nice touches etc., but to me just looks far too small. Also, he's not particularly young any more either, will turn 23 this year. I would rate guys like O'Brien, O'Neill, Dillon and even Madigan as better prospects.