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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #9692
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    lugha wrote: »
    The “I can’t afford to pay argument” simply does not stand up, as has been pointed out repeatedly on thread. If the household charge is abandoned the government will simply raise taxes or make cuts to the tune of €160 M in lieu.
    There are people who cant afford it. This thread is not the final and absolute answer to say people that cant afford it dont exist. Just because the government might use an alternative in lieu, does not mean that all people can afford a new property tax. This property tax is an increased expense on a persons income, with no connection to the income level.
    Only if you can predict where there cuts will be made and hence know that you will not be effected can you credibly make the “can’t afford it” argument. Of course if you had the talent to do that, you would be flush with money. :)
    If a person has higher outgoings than income, they cant afford it. This tax makes zero allowance for that. But you say no one in ireland cant afford it. So thats that arguement over so.
    Another false argument. In the first place the money collected in stamp duty WAS given back to the people in one form or another (lower taxes, higher welfare rates etc.)
    Yes, the money paid by some, was given back to all. A bit like this new tax, only some are targeted, to benefit everyone, they tell us.
    So you are repaying large amounts of money in stamp duty + interest ….. but this is going to the banks and is most certainly not being used at all to fund local services. Therefore currently, as well as repaying stamp duty, you are paying general tax, a portion of which is being used to fund local services!!!
    If thats the case, then if people did not pay this stamp duty, then more would be taken from local services income.

    So the fact is, people that paid stamp duty, paid a property tax already. But your saying the things the government did with that tax, nullifies the fact home owners paid extra tax.


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    #9693
    SnowY32
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭SnowY32




    RTE should be ashamed, this is reporting on the majority who are not paying this tax !


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    #9694
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    black francis wrote: »
    And a hole in the ground to bury your head in.

    At least it wont be a brown one.


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    #9695
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Being reported that 4,000 turned out for the march, pretty poor turnout really.


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    #9696
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    SnowY32 wrote: »

    RTE should be ashamed, this is reporting on the majority who are not paying this tax !
    Why would RTE be ashamed? They aren't responsible for that garbage.

    "Global insurrection" :rolleyes:


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    #9697
    MrMatisse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    SnowY32 wrote: »


    RTE should be ashamed, this is reporting on the majority who are not paying this tax !


    What a load of tripe


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    #9698
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    What a load of tripe

    Your posts?


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    #9699
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    What a load of tripe


    the truth always hurts....;)


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    #9700
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Your posts?

    That seems to be the typical response from the anti-pay side. If someone disagress get personal.


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    #9701
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    MagicSean wrote: »
    That seems to be the typical response from the anti-pay side. If someone disagress get personal.

    Saying somone`s posts are tripe is personal now?

    You would want to look over a bit more of the thread, if you somehow see only the no side have got personal.


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    #9702
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    MagicSean wrote: »
    That seems to be the typical response from the anti-pay side. If someone disagress get personal.
    What's personal about saying someone's posts are tripe?


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    #9703
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    lividduck wrote: »
    Being reported that 4,000 turned out for the march, pretty poor turnout really.
    Gardai are estimating it at between 4000 and 5000. Its a tiny turnout for what was billed to be a major anti austerity protest.


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    #9704
    MrMatisse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    For those ranting about the banks etc please see here what happened.



    The government couldnt do much. Breaking the law and not paying the charge wont help. Just further damage public services.


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    #9705
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    What a load of tripe


    typical response from the vested interests....;)


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    #9706
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    For those ranting about the banks etc please see here what happened.



    The government couldnt do much. Breaking the law and not paying the charge wont help. Just further damage to public servants pay and conditions
    ?


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    #9707
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    MagicSean wrote: »
    That seems to be the typical response from the anti-pay side. If someone disagress get personal.

    attacking The posts, not the poster?

    MrMatisse wrote: »
    For those ranting about the banks etc please see here what happened.



    The government couldnt do much. Breaking the law and not paying the charge wont help. Just further damage public services.



    How can you come on this thread and advocate payment, when (as highlighted earlier) you've been on a previous thread doing the opposite?

    Screams TROLL to me

    Be gone, troll!


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75816431&postcount=43


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    #9708
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    For those ranting about the banks etc please see here what happened.



    The government couldnt do much. Breaking the law and not paying the charge wont help. Just further damage public services.

    And if you keep repeating that line to yourself for long enough you will eventually become to believe it. at midnight tonight it will be conformed that 1 in 3 people have swallowed the entire jar of pills.:confused:


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    #9709
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    lividduck wrote: »
    Being reported that 4,000 turned out for the march, pretty poor turnout really.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/fg-gardai-instructed-blinds-to-be-pulled-as-protests-gathered-outside-ard-fheis-402689-Mar2012/

    See picture in report also.


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    #9710
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    seamus wrote: »
    Figure is now nearly 600,000 according to the LGMA. That's 490k registrations + 91k postal payments + 11k waivers.

    Regardless now of whether you favour the 1.6 figure or 1.8 figure, at least 30% of people are now registered with one day to the deadline. That figure will increase by at least 50% over the next 72 hours and will double in the next 7 days.

    Looks like the "No" side are done.

    How exactly are almost 1 million households alone.:D


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    #9711
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    There are people who cant afford it. This thread is not the final and absolute answer to say people that cant afford it dont exist. Just because the government might use an alternative in lieu, does not mean that all people can afford a new property tax. This property tax is an increased expense on a persons income, with no connection to the income level.
    I am not sure if you see the point that I am making. I do not say that there aren’t any people for whom €100 a year is not a trivial amount I am saying there is no logic in opposing the charge on that basis (or for that matter, supporting the charge either). Because if the “no” side succeed you are as likely to pay more than €100 as you are to pay less.

    If the government abandon this household charge then they will have to raise €160 M in some other way to do so. Lets suppose they reduce child benefit by €10 per month, and not €4 which may have been their plan had the house hold charge being implemented. Then a struggling family with two children will be down €144 per year, rather than €100! Hence they are worse off by €44.
    Of course if they have no children they are better off by €100. But they don’t know what measures the government might take so they don’t know what the effect would be if the no side succeed. Thus there is no rational in either opposing or supporting this charge on grounds of affordability.
    robbie7730 wrote: »
    So the fact is, people that paid stamp duty, paid a property tax already. But your saying the things the government did with that tax, nullifies the fact home owners paid extra tax.

    No I am saying that if you argue that paying this house hold charge amounts to double taxation as home owners already have paid stamp duty then it must also be deemed to be double taxation if the government take some of the money you pay in tax (about €100 per annum!) to pay for local services.

    You currently will have paid your stamp duty and a portion of the tax you pay to the exchequer (about €100) goes to funding local services – double taxation!

    Under the new proposals you will have will paid your stamp duty and €100 (in the first year) specifically towards a household charge – double taxation!


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    #9712
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    I see a pattern of delusional people who believe everything they are being fed. Like this 160 million is going to help the situation in any way. Its not even enough to pay off the yearly interest we are paying on the debt.

    I wouldn't be trumping success on the promissory note either those FG/Labour members who are obviously trolling the forums of late. You have only "Kicked the can down the road".


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    #9713
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Getting a bit nasty down at the convention centre.

    rte.ie wrote:
    A near riot broke out during the protests when a Fine Gael delegate who resembled Phil Hogan tried to pass through the crowd.
    The man was engulfed by angry protesters and jostled before gardai came to his rescue.
    As they attempted to escort him from the area they were surrounded by screaming protesters, some of whom shouted “shame on you Hogan.”
    The man was visibly shaken as he was put into a Garda squad car and driven away at speed.


  • Options
    #9714
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Like this 160 million is going to help the situation in any way. Its not even enough to pay off the yearly interest we are paying on the depth.
    It is a deep debt.


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    #9715
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    lugha wrote: »
    If the government abandon this household charge then they will have to raise €160 M in some other way to do so. Lets suppose they reduce child benefit by €10 per month, and not €4 which may have been their plan had the house hold charge being implemented. Then a struggling family with two children will be down €144 per year, rather than €100! Hence they are worse off by €44.

    Did you see this?


    Irish Examiner - Allowances of EUR2.5bn paid out to teachers
    29th March 2012
    Teachers have been paid allowances totalling EUR2.5bn on top of their salaries over the last five years, figures from the Department of Education show. Almost half of the EUR500m paid annually in allowances to primary and secondary school teachers between 2007 and 2011 was for their qualifications. They range from almost EUR600 up to EUR6,140 a year for a teacher with a PhD, and totalled almost EURl.lbn between 2007 and 2011 ... A cap has been placed on new allowances for teachers' qualifications since the budget in December. All new teachers are subject to the suspension across the public service of any allowances being paid until a government review of all additional payments is completed. The review is being undertaken by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, which has said the focus is on allowances payable to new entrants. Unions insist that the Croke Park deal protects allowances, as well as salaries, from further cuts... The Irish National Teachers' Organisation said qualifications allowances were an integral part of salary and pensions, while other payments were made for extra work needed for the proper running of schools. INTO president Noreen Flynn said both were protected by the Croke Park agreement. She condemned the decision to review this aspect of pay without consulting unions.
    http://www.into.ie/ROI/NewsEvents/MediaCoverage/


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    #9716
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Bullseye1 wrote: »


    I wouldn't be trumping success on the promissory note either those FG/Labour members who are obviously trolling the forums of late. You have only "Kicked the can down the road".

    How anyone can call turning private debt into sovereign debt a success is beyond me!


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    #9717
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    How anyone can call turning private debt into sovereign debt a success is beyond me!

    Agreed. It is no different to what FF did with Anglo.


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    #9718
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Did you see this?

    http://www.into.ie/ROI/NewsEvents/MediaCoverage/

    Great little country, isn't it?


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    #9719
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Did you see this?

    http://www.into.ie/ROI/NewsEvents/MediaCoverage/
    I do see it.

    What I don't see is how it has the slightest bearing on the point I made in the post you quoted. :confused::confused:


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    #9720
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Great little country, isn't it?

    It is if your on the gravy train.:p


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    #9721
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    "you must all bend over and take your medicine from uncle Phil ! it is the LAW !....or we will track you down!"....over my dead body Phil

    Alan "get a life" Shatter.....f*ck you.... concentrate on justice for law abiding people instead of pandering to the criminals in our over lenient "justice system" which costs €100,000 a year to keep some scumbag locked up....oh and I almost forgot, the same tax payers who are the victims of these scumbags will also support the scumbags families while they are locked up!....

    every aspect of our social services are in a mess, wasteful and are a complete joke and an insult to us, how much more do they think the ordinary people of Ireland can or will take??

    supposedly, over 600,000 have "paid" this tax?.....BAAAAAAAAAA!!!!


This discussion has been closed.
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