Really need help in a sticky situation.

Bigmac1euro · 29-03-2012 11:49am #1

Ok so basically my GF's Dad bought her a car for Christmas 2010 but she never got driving lessons or did the provisional and doesnt seem to have the intention on doing so. But I have a provisional License and I decided ill try get insured on the car but the car needs to be in my name her Dad had the log books so I got her to get the log books off her Dad but there U.K log books from Northern Ireland and the car is in yellow reg also the names have not been changed over in the log books and its in some womans name I dont know from Omagh and the car was Bought two years ago:mad:. I know Id have to Vrt the car and get new Reg's or whatever. But what do I do about the Log book situation as my GF and her Dad No longer Speak.I have the car and the log books now but I dont know what to do. I dont know why her dad didnt get the names changed into my girlfriends name at the time but he just didn't. I also have a SORN cert to state the vehicle has been off the road and it expires on 30 June 2010. I really dont know what to do

ive never bought a car before and Im trying to put this car in my name

. But its a mess of a situation. Any Help at all Would be great but I cant see much help other than buy a new car LOL

corktina · 29-03-2012 11:58am

Id just giive it back and buy something that is up to date in its diocumentation and doesnt need a pile spending on VRT

Atlantic Dawn · 29-03-2012 12:00pm

First thing I would do is check if the car is stolen, contact the previous owner on the V5 document to see how they sold it to the girls father. If you don't have the full V5 document I would simply forget about the whole thing, too much of a mess.

If the car has been sitting idle for 2 years it's most likely only fit for a trip to Hammond Lane.

Bigmac1euro · 29-03-2012 12:16pm

My brothers a mechanic so what ever needs to be done can be done. The VRT would cost me 400 euro its been in a garage in my gf's Back Garden i think it just needs a new battery and prob a service. I highly doubt it was robbed and there is no contact details for the woman who owned the vehicle just address

keithclancy · 29-03-2012 12:20pm

steo_magra wrote: »

Ok so basically my GF's Dad bought her a car for Christmas 2010 but she never got driving lessons or did the provisional and doesnt seem to have the intention on doing so. But I have a provisional License and I decided ill try get insured on the car but the car needs to be in my name her Dad had the log books so I got her to get the log books off her Dad but there U.K log books from Northern Ireland and the car is in yellow reg also the names have not been changed over in the log books and its in some womans name I dont know from Omagh and the car was Bought two years ago:mad:. I know Id have to Vrt the car and get new Reg's or whatever. But what do I do about the Log book situation as my GF and her Dad No longer Speak.I have the car and the log books now but I dont know what to do. I dont know why her dad didnt get the names changed into my girlfriends name at the time but he just didn't. I also have a SORN cert to state the vehicle has been off the road and it expires on 30 June 2010. I really dont know what to do ive never bought a car before and Im trying to put this car in my name . But its a mess of a situation. Any Help at all Would be great but I cant see much help other than buy a new car LOL

That ^^^ sounds like a ballache
Buy a second hand car - Problem solved

+ Family and stuff like that does not mix.

corktina · 29-03-2012 12:21pm

€400 VRT? If it's an old banger, my info is that VRT is a minimum of €720

Bigmac1euro · 29-03-2012 12:45pm

https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrtenquiry.html?execution=e1s1

Thats the website i got a quote off to vrt the car - costs 400 euro and the car of similiar spec is going for 1000-1200. So i think it be worth the 400 if i can get the documents changed over. Also If I forged her signature and then sent it to my address would she be informed of this??? Its just her signature i need and i cant seem to track her down. I dont see what would be so bad about signing the document seen as she should have done it in the first place so bloody annoying how could two people be so stupid the buyer and the seller

Bigmac1euro · 29-03-2012 12:46pm

Oh by the way I do have the full V5 document just no phone number for the woman

Chimaera · 29-03-2012 1:09pm

Forging a signature on a legal document could land you in prison, or at least get you a hefty fine. Right now the car still legally belongs to the PO since the V5 is in her name. So forging her name on a change of ownership form could get you in trouble for handling stolen goods.

If you have the address of the PO, write to her explaining the situation. She may be more than happy to sort it all out with you. Like another poster said, run the reg through a history check first.

bbam · 29-03-2012 5:18pm

I'd say same as previous posters...
Family stuff isn't worth the bother...

It'll be grief down the line no matter what happens, he'll claim he bought the car and you stole the documents... Your changing the ownership without his consent and he did buy the car...

Remember you'll have to NCT the car too, service, battery and VRT...
You say it's only worth €1k, you'll have spent the best part of that and be looking over your shoulder wondering when he'll kick up a storm...

Buy a second hand car with NCT already and save yourself a whole heap of trouble..

AltAccount · 29-03-2012 6:04pm

Who is the legal owner of the car?

Bohrio · 29-03-2012 6:33pm

steo_magra wrote: »

Oh by the way I do have the full V5 document just no phone number for the woman

I had a similar issue when I bought my motorbike. The guy who sold it to me only had the V5 thingie. As soon as I bought it I signed the paper and ask the revenue about the whole VRT process. Back then all I had to do is pay 150 euro and that was it. A week later a car ran into me and the bike was off the road for over 2 years so never got the chance to do it.

A year ago I fixed the bike and started using it once more. I decided to make it road legal and pay the VRT. It was different than before as I needed to pass an NCT test now. One of the things they asked for was a proof of purchase (which I never got) but never mentioned anything about the V5 needing both (previous and current) owner signatures. I rang a few people and I told them that I bought this bike of a guy in meath and that it wasnt the original owner. I told them that I had checked that the car was not stolen and also tried contacting the previous owner but never heard back. They said not to worry. They said that all I needed was a proof of purchase. I told them I dint have one from the original owner (yes I know but I was a fool back then) so they said to make a new one and state the date of the transfer and put my signature on it.

Then I went to pass the NCT, presented all my papers, which were, original V5 UK, proof of purchase (that I wrote the day before stating the real day when I bought my bike), and a couple of forms.

A week later I had my papers with me (it took longer because they couldnt find my bike on the revenue list) and the best thing is that I never paid in arreas, only paid the VRT from the day I brought the bike to the NCT...

You are on a provisional so who is gonna be with you in the car? maybe it will be cheaper if you let him/her insure it

I do agree with other posters here... this looks like trouble

CiniO · 29-03-2012 6:37pm

All seems to be easy.
You have a car, and you have V5C.
That's all you need to pay VRT and register it in Ireland AFAIK.
Book you VRT inspection at NCT centre and go for it. I can't see a need to contact previous owner. Also your GF father couldn't change a name on V5C as he is not resident in NI.

CiniO · 29-03-2012 6:37pm

AltAccount wrote: »

Who is the legal owner of the car?

If OP's father bought it, and then gave it to his daughter, then she is a legal owner of the car.

CiniO · 29-03-2012 6:40pm

Chimaera wrote: »

Right now the car still legally belongs to the PO since the V5 is in her name. So forging her name on a change of ownership form could get you in trouble for handling stolen goods.

If OP's GF father bought it, the no - it doesn't still egally belong to the previous owner. No need (and also no possibility) to change the name on V5C.

If you have the address of the PO, write to her explaining the situation. She may be more than happy to sort it all out with you. Like another poster said, run the reg through a history check first.

What would you expect PO to do even if she was willing to help?

corktina · 29-03-2012 6:48pm

CiniO wrote: »

If OP's GF father bought it, the no - it doesn't still egally belong to the previous owner. No need (and also no possibility) to change the name on V5C.

I agree. If it genuinely was purchased and given to your gf, then she is the legal owner and can re-reg it. If she gives it to you (and a receipt preferably) then you can.

If it's all above board, then there is no problem

guil · 29-03-2012 7:05pm

Bohrio wrote: »

I had a similar issue when I bought my motorbike. The guy who sold it to me only had the V5 thingie. As soon as I bought it I signed the paper and ask the revenue about the whole VRT process. Back then all I had to do is pay 150 euro and that was it. A week later a car ran into me and the bike was off the road for over 2 years so never got the chance to do it.

A year ago I fixed the bike and started using it once more. I decided to make it road legal and pay the VRT. It was different than before as I needed to pass an NCT test now. One of the things they asked for was a proof of purchase (which I never got) but never mentioned anything about the V5 needing both (previous and current) owner signatures. I rang a few people and I told them that I bought this bike of a guy in meath and that it wasnt the original owner. I told them that I had checked that the car was not stolen and also tried contacting the previous owner but never heard back. They said not to worry. They said that all I needed was a proof of purchase. I told them I dint have one from the original owner (yes I know but I was a fool back then) so they said to make a new one and state the date of the transfer and put my signature on it.

Then I went to pass the NCT, presented all my papers, which were, original V5 UK, proof of purchase (that I wrote the day before stating the real day when I bought my bike), and a couple of forms.

A week later I had my papers with me (it took longer because they couldnt find my bike on the revenue list) and the best thing is that I never paid in arreas, only paid the VRT from the day I brought the bike to the NCT...

You are on a provisional so who is gonna be with you in the car? maybe it will be cheaper if you let him/her insure it

I do agree with other posters here... this looks like trouble

first you say bike, then car and then bike again and afaik bikes don't need any test done at the moment

Bohrio · 29-03-2012 7:37pm

guil wrote: »

first you say bike, then car and then bike again and afaik bikes don't need any test done at the moment

car? where? sorry about that... i think

They do

link

They do basic checks only, but I had to do it for mine...

Everytime I write something down people always suspect... from now on I will do the same, I should have replied... source?

AltAccount · 29-03-2012 7:49pm

CiniO wrote: »

If OP's father bought it, and then gave it to his daughter, then she is a legal owner of the car.

That's a fairly expensive "if", unless you can prove the father got passed legal title from the lady in Omagh, and gave it to his daughter. And seeing as he's uncontactable, I'm wondering how possible that is.

Seems like a bit of a risk when there are plenty of "legit" cars out there.

john reilly · 29-03-2012 7:54pm

AltAccount wrote: »

That's a fairly expensive "if", unless you can prove the father got passed legal title from the lady in Omagh, and gave it to his daughter. And seeing as he's uncontactable, I'm wondering how possible that is.

Seems like a bit of a risk when there are plenty of "legit" cars out there.

the car sounds completely legit you have the v5. doesnt matter what name its in go and pay the vrt . get a new irish logbook in your name then the car is yours

CiniO · 29-03-2012 8:02pm

AltAccount wrote: »

That's a fairly expensive "if", unless you can prove the father got passed legal title from the lady in Omagh, and gave it to his daughter. And seeing as he's uncontactable, I'm wondering how possible that is.

What legal title you mean?
If you buy a car, from the moment of transaction you become a legal owner of the vehicle.

Seems like a bit of a risk when there are plenty of "legit" cars out there.

But they are not for free, while this one is.

Bigmac1euro · 29-03-2012 8:50pm

Thanks for all your help guys I have all the legal documentation and the car but the legal documentation is still in the womans name from omagh who my GF's dad bought it off my GF is giving the car to me. Im just worried because I dont have the womans signature on the V5 document. I think ill just bring it to The Nct centre and get it VRT'd its technically my GF's car as her dad bought it for her but he never got the woman he bought it off to sign the change of ownership section if you guys get me but I think its safer than i originally maybe im thinking to deep. Thanks for all the help any more answers and helpful ideas would be cool

unkel · 29-03-2012 9:16pm

steo_magra wrote: »

I dont know why her dad didnt get the names changed into my girlfriends name at the time

Because he is a tax dodger?

I agree with the others. It could get nasty should he claim he never gave her the car in the first place and she took it from him. For the sake of a few hundred euro, buy another car that already is on Irish plates and that already has been NCT tested (with a long test remaining).

Chimaera · 29-03-2012 9:23pm

What legal title you mean?
If you buy a car, from the moment of transaction you become a legal owner of the vehicle.

It's only legally yours if you have documentary evidence to support your claim. In the absence of a receipt of sale, if the change of ownership paperwork was never completed, then it has not legally changed ownership. Hence my earlier suggestion of writing to the PO with the intention of completing the change of ownership process in the UK. I'm not sure the VRT guys will sign off on an import if you can't prove you own the car either.

Bigmac1euro · 30-03-2012 6:49am

unkel wrote: »

Because he is a tax dodger?

I agree with the others. It could get nasty should he claim he never gave her the car in the first place and she took it from him. For the sake of a few hundred euro, buy another car that already is on Irish plates and that already has been NCT tested (with a long test remaining).

Yes Probably a tax dodger but it wont get nasty because I think he knows I have the car and doesnt care and isn't arsed replying to texts or answering his phone to help me resolve situation same as doesnt answer phone to GF

. Its just that bloody womans signature I need. And he wouldn't claim he didnt give my GF her the car either.

Chimaera: Yeah you could be right Ill give them a ring and explain my situation. My bro is a mechanic so anything which is probably small that needs to be done ill get done. It had the Uk NCT when it was bought so I cant see much to be wrong with it

john reilly · 30-03-2012 7:04am

Chimaera wrote: »

It's only legally yours if you have documentary evidence to support your claim. In the absence of a receipt of sale, if the change of ownership paperwork was never completed, then it has not legally changed ownership. Hence my earlier suggestion of writing to the PO with the intention of completing the change of ownership process in the UK. I'm not sure the VRT guys will sign off on an import if you can't prove you own the car either.

please stop making problems where they dont exist. all he has to do is take the car to nct and pay vrt. simple

corktina · 30-03-2012 8:21am

you don't neeed the Omagh womans signature.
The procedure is that she should have handed the guy the V5C and written to the DVLA(NI) telling them she has sold the car and it has been exported. The section on the V5C for export is solely for use should the woman have been exporting the car HERSELF.
There is therefore nowhere for her to sign.

P.C. · 30-03-2012 8:46am

OP

Have a look at the NCT website, I think it is www.ncts.ie
All the information is there.
You can book your test online, and it will tell you what documents you need to take with you.

The only problem I think you will have is the fact that the car has been in the country for longer than 7 days.

CiniO · 30-03-2012 8:58am

steo_magra wrote: »

Yes Probably a tax dodger but it wont get nasty because I think he knows I have the car and doesnt care and isn't arsed replying to texts or answering his phone to help me resolve situation same as doesnt answer phone to GF . Its just that bloody womans signature I need. And he wouldn't claim he didnt give my GF her the car either.

I think you are not reading what people are answering you here.
You don't need any womans signature. When purchasing car abroad (for example NI) you don't change ownership with filling the form, as they can't change ownership on NI document into someone resident in ROI. If you buy a car in NI from anyone else, you wouldn't get that person signature on V5C anyway.

Chimaera · 30-03-2012 10:35am

you don't neeed the Omagh womans signature.
The procedure is that she should have handed the guy the V5C and written to the DVLA(NI) telling them she has sold the car and it has been exported. The section on the V5C for export is solely for use should the woman have been exporting the car HERSELF.
There is therefore nowhere for her to sign.

So the UK don't require both current and future owners to sign off on the documents for change of ownership? Wow! Wide open for fraud and theft there. All you need to do is get the V5 and you can claim ownership of the car? You'll forgive me if I think this sounds like bull

CiniO · 30-03-2012 10:40am

Chimaera wrote: »

So the UK don't require both current and future owners to sign off on the documents for change of ownership? Wow! Wide open for fraud and theft there. All you need to do is get the V5 and you can claim ownership of the car? You'll forgive me if I think this sounds like bull

They do require both signatures on the document, when change of ownership is between two UK residents.
If UK resident is selling his UK registered car to non-resident (for example Irish resident) then correct procedure is to hand over V5C to the new owner, as he will need it to register the car in his home country (f.e. Ireland).

listermint · 30-03-2012 10:48am

Chimaera wrote: »

So the UK don't require both current and future owners to sign off on the documents for change of ownership? Wow! Wide open for fraud and theft there. All you need to do is get the V5 and you can claim ownership of the car? You'll forgive me if I think this sounds like bull

You are wrong.

corktina · 30-03-2012 6:47pm

check the dvla website, that is the procedure. all they want is to be able to flag the car as exported. what happens to it abroad is not their concern

john reilly · 30-03-2012 6:50pm

Chimaera wrote: »

So the UK don't require both current and future owners to sign off on the documents for change of ownership? Wow! Wide open for fraud and theft there. All you need to do is get the V5 and you can claim ownership of the car? You'll forgive me if I think this sounds like bull

no

AltAccount · 31-03-2012 11:03am

You keep talking about paperwork Cinio. Who OWNS the car, and can prove they own it?

Guy:Incognito · 31-03-2012 11:43am

corktina wrote: »

€400 VRT? If it's an old banger, my info is that VRT is a minimum of €720

The €720 rate is the minimum for the top Co2 band. Each have their own min.

CiniO · 31-03-2012 12:57pm

AltAccount wrote: »

You keep talking about paperwork Cinio. Who OWNS the car, and can prove they own it?

The current owner owns the car.
If I go to you and buy a camera off you, then ownership of camera goes from you to me. Then if I give this camera to my father, then he owns it.
Exactly the same with cars. If OP GF father bought this car means he owned it. If he gave it to his daughter then, means she owns it.
Paperwork is really irrelevant here when it comes to ownership.
Of course it's wise to have paperwork all in order even to be able to prove ownership, in case any of the previous owners claims car was stolen of him/her.
But OP saying they have V5C is actually a quite good proof they own the car.

Also it would be very wise to write a receipt or contract of sale for each transaction, but even without it, there should be no doubt about ownership.

Esel · 01-04-2012 2:43am

corktina wrote: »

€400 VRT? If it's an old banger, my info is that VRT is a minimum of €720

Wrong. If there is a valid CO2 figure for the car, then the VRT rate will be based on this. The minimum amount of VRT payable will be this percentage of the calculated OMSP.

Your misconception is based on a car with no CO2 figure, in which case the VRT rate will be 36%. On a car with the minimum OMSP of €2000, the VRT would then be €720.

corktina · 01-04-2012 8:44am

Esel wrote: »

Wrong. If there is a valid CO2 figure for the car, then the VRT rate will be based on this. The minimum amount of VRT payable will be this percentage of the calculated OMSP.

Your misconception is based on a car with no CO2 figure, in which case the VRT rate will be 36%. On a car with the minimum OMSP of €2000, the VRT would then be €720.

someone already siad that:rolleyes:

fasttalkerchat · 01-04-2012 1:18pm

CiniO wrote: »

The current owner owns the car.
If I go to you and buy a camera off you, then ownership of camera goes from you to me. Then if I give this camera to my father, then he owns it.
Exactly the same with cars. If OP GF father bought this car means he owned it. If he gave it to his daughter then, means she owns it.
Paperwork is really irrelevant here when it comes to ownership.
Of course it's wise to have paperwork all in order even to be able to prove ownership, in case any of the previous owners claims car was stolen of him/her.
But OP saying they have V5C is actually a quite good proof they own the car.

Also it would be very wise to write a receipt or contract of sale for each transaction, but even without it, there should be no doubt about ownership.

OP is right about being the owner of the car, but, the important fact is who is the registered keeper of the car.

For my part, If the OP can give the exact year make, model and condition of the car I could advise on what to do. I have a feeling that the car will be valued at less than 2000 Euro. If that is the case the best solution is to contact the DVLA(NI) and get the car registered into your name. Then sell the car as an NI registered car (possibly sell it on gumtree to someone up north).

corktina · 01-04-2012 3:49pm

they wont do it unless you reside there. Why would they? the car isnt there anymore and in all probability (if she followed the procedure) the Omagh Woman has told them it has gone abroad

fasttalkerchat · 01-04-2012 5:21pm

corktina wrote: »

they wont do it unless you reside there. Why would they? the car isnt there anymore and in all probability (if she followed the procedure) the Omagh Woman has told them it has gone abroad

If her name is still on the V5 then she hasn't. It was declared SORN so as far as the authorities are aware the car is sitting in a garage in Omagh.

Because it was declared SORN i would be 99% sure that it wasn't declared as out of the country.

IF they refuse to make you the registered keeper because you live south of the border, your best bet would be to sell the car as is north of the border. Explain to the buyer that you bought the car but the VRT was too dear.

corktina · 01-04-2012 5:40pm

how would the name change? magic?

fasttalkerchat · 01-04-2012 6:00pm

corktina wrote: »

how would the name change? magic?

The name didn't change. Its still in the same name.

corktina · 01-04-2012 6:18pm

sorry but how does that show she hasnt follwed the correct procedure and told the NI authorities that its been exported\?

declaring it sorn dosnt prevent her selling it and it being exported.

john reilly · 01-04-2012 6:42pm

why are people still trying to create problems where they dont exist

fasttalkerchat · 01-04-2012 8:40pm

corktina wrote: »

sorry but how does that show she hasnt follwed the correct procedure and told the NI authorities that its been exported\?

declaring it sorn dosnt prevent her selling it and it being exported.

Unless I've missed something -

The car could not be registered as exported because Omagh woman is still the registered keeper. When you export a car you fill in the relevent section and send off the log book. If OP has the log book with Omagh woman's name then the relevent section hasn't been filled in and sent off.

The only other way to inform the authorities would be if she told them she lost the log book, get a new log book and sent it away with the relevent section filled in... very unlikely.

john reilly · 01-04-2012 9:02pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Unless I've missed something -

The car could not be registered as exported because Omagh woman is still the registered keeper. When you export a car you fill in the relevent section and send off the log book. If OP has the log book with Omagh woman's name then the relevent section hasn't been filled in and sent off.

The only other way to inform the authorities would be if she told them she lost the log book, get a new log book and sent it away with the relevent section filled in... very unlikely.

this has no relevance to what the o.p should or shouldnt do with his car

CiniO · 01-04-2012 10:00pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Unless I've missed something -

The car could not be registered as exported because Omagh woman is still the registered keeper. When you export a car you fill in the relevent section and send off the log book.

Here's the most important part.
When you export a car from UK, then yes - you send the relevant section of the logbook and keep the rest for purposes of registering a car abroad.
That applies in case UK resident moves abroad and takes his car with him.

But if UK resident sells car to foreign resident for export, he hand whole logbook (V5C) to the new owner, and just informs DVLA about the fact car was sold for export.

If OP has the log book with Omagh woman's name then the relevent section hasn't been filled in and sent off.

The only other way to inform the authorities would be if she told them she lost the log book, get a new log book and sent it away with the relevent section filled in... very unlikely.

That's all nonsence.

fasttalkerchat · 01-04-2012 10:14pm

CiniO wrote: »

But if UK resident sells car to foreign resident for export, he hand whole logbook (V5C) to the new owner, and just informs DVLA about the fact car was sold for export.

You dont hand over the log book at all! You post off the logbook and the new owner gets a slip the size of a bank card. The buyer receive an updated logbook in the post in a few weeks.

fasttalkerchat · 01-04-2012 10:14pm

john reilly wrote: »

this has no relevance to what the o.p should or shouldnt do with his car

I think he knows the problem... hence starting the thread...

Really need help in a sticky situation.

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