Livestock/General Farming photo thread READ MOD NOTE IN POST #1

teaserbull · 25-03-2012 09:30PM

the french cannot understand these complaints the irish have with the descendants of their stock? they are seriously bamboozled, I hope it's not a case that the irish are that poor of stockmen, or just initially that the Irish brand or knock something "new" or "different"? or just want to blame/ or look at other reasons to disguise poor stockmanship..... possibly the massive amount of parttime farming that occurs here is to blame?

10% of calves dying before they reach 22 days of age in this country....(majority due to calving difficulties....scours....poor beastings intake....poor husbandry... perhaps we should take note of french farming practices? as opposed to critising their apparently "wild" livestock...

And btw I'm not claiming that wild/flighty salers don't exist! I just don't regard them anything different to other suckler breeds! if not handled often and well from an early age! they will run wild!

Kovu · 25-03-2012 10:15PM

teaserbull wrote: »

With reference to to their protectiveness of a calf in the first few hours....maybe day or two post calving.....you may regard it as an issue, but look at the other end of the spectrum.....we don't want a suckler cow with poor mothering instinct either....look at cf52 daughters in charls....or other hopeless mothering skills amoungst other mas du clu limmos?? who desert the calf if not neglects it.....it's very difficult to strike a balance between mothering ability and excessive mothering/agression.....but if one knows the cow is dangerous WHY TAKE THE RISK! install facilities....and inform everyone else that the cow is dangerous around calving! It's negligence to not be weary of a newborn cow, far more lethal than any bull! whatever the breed!

And with UCD behavioural and geneticists.....it's not just their thoughts it's apparently well documented around the world....and if you take it out of your own context.... (I too was sceptical initially ) ie. If you had a newborn calf....from whatever nutjob of a wild cow whether limmo, salers, blonde whatever......take that calf as soon as it is born away from the cow, within hours (after it's beastings of course) as an experiment raise it amongst artificially reared dairy calves (away from it's cow 100% effectively rear it as a dairy calf).........you mean to tell me that heifer calf is going to be a nutjob as a cow herself? completely to the contrary, she'll act completely the same as her counterparts...a well handled socialised animal....

The heifers/salers your uncle has himself...does he know how the cows themselves were reared as calves? what the husbandry was like etc?

They're regarded as highly intelligent cattle in france, often acting as an obstacle in milking herds with milk let down etc due to the calf having to be presentat milking!

the french cannot understand these complaints the irish have with the descendants of their livestock? they are seriously bamboozled, I hope it's not a case that the irish are that poor of stockmen, or just initially brand something "new" or "different"? possibly the massive amount of part time farming that occurs here is to blame?

And btw I'm not claiming that contrary/wild/flighty salers don't exist! I just don't regard them anything different to other suckler breeds! if not handled often and well! they will run wild!

I have never calved a Saler in my life yet I know three things.
1- A wild heifer, calving to a "quiet" saler will end in tears
2- Many farmers are choosing this bull for hardiness & maternal traits as they work away from the farm. Forward heifers will be wilder from no handling.
3- I personally feel (and I may be wrong) The society is trying to get to a minority farmer who is still adamant about Charolais.

redzerologhlen · 26-03-2012 11:01AM

teaserbull wrote: »

With reference to to their protectiveness of a calf in the first few hours....maybe day or two post calving.....you may regard it as an issue, but look at the other end of the spectrum.....we don't want a suckler cow with poor mothering instinct either....look at cf52 daughters in charls....or other hopeless mothering skills amoungst other mas du clu limmos?? who desert the calf if not neglects it.....it's very difficult to strike a balance between mothering ability and excessive mothering/agression.....but if one knows the cow is dangerous WHY TAKE THE RISK! install facilities....and inform everyone else that the cow is dangerous around calving! It's negligence to not be weary of a newborn cow, far more lethal than any bull! whatever the breed!

And with UCD behavioural and geneticists.....it's not just their thoughts it's apparently well documented around the world....and if you take it out of your own context.... (I too was sceptical initially ) ie. If you had a newborn calf....from whatever nutjob of a wild cow whether limmo, salers, blonde whatever......take that calf as soon as it is born away from the cow, within hours (after it's beastings of course) as an experiment raise it amongst artificially reared dairy calves (away from it's cow 100% effectively rear it as a dairy calf).........you mean to tell me that heifer calf is going to be a nutjob as a cow herself? completely to the contrary, she'll act completely the same as her counterparts...a well handled socialised animal....

The heifers/salers your uncle has himself...does he know how the cows themselves were reared as calves? what the husbandry was like etc?

They're regarded as highly intelligent cattle in france, often acting as an obstacle in milking herds with milk let down etc due to the calf having to be presentat milking!

the french cannot understand these complaints the irish have with the descendants of their livestock? they are seriously bamboozled, I hope it's not a case that the irish are that poor of stockmen, or just initially brand something "new" or "different"? possibly the massive amount of part time farming that occurs here is to blame?

And btw I'm not claiming that contrary/wild/flighty salers don't exist! I just don't regard them anything different to other suckler breeds! if not handled often and well! they will run wild!

I know all the good points of the breed and I am not going to argue them with you. Without a doubt they breed a lovely charlaois calf and in generally are milky enough for suckling. All my uncles salers were ai bred by himself and reared alongside his limos and handled the same as each other. Most cows are a bit tempermental when they calf but the salers actually seem like they want to kill you, they dont like being penned up in the yard either. His limos are a lot quieter than them and their calves are just as good as the salers. I know plenty more people who have them that will say the same. They are being promoted as the ultimate cow and rather than saying they are quiet now which isint really the case compared to other breeds maybe the society should address the docility issue. I dont want to get in an argument over it and you have a different experience of them. I am only talking from my experience of them.

vanderbadger · 26-03-2012 11:24AM

Kovu · 26-03-2012 11:45AM

vanderbadger wrote: »

My first thought was miniature sheep

vanderbadger · 26-03-2012 11:49AM

Karen112 wrote: »

My first thought was miniature sheep

she is just as dirty as one anyhow

redzerologhlen · 26-03-2012 12:58PM

Think were after getting lucky today. Auld lad fed cows this morning and said a cow had calved and she was sucked but he didnt see the calf so I went down to go searching. Spent a good half hour walking and look where I found the hoor, no way he could get up out of it and a big thick bull calf he is.

The same cows calf from last year.

Bizzum · 26-03-2012 01:37PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Another calf born on the surface of the moon:D

PMU · 26-03-2012 06:48PM

galway bay looks lovely in this kind of weather,redzer

redzerologhlen · 26-03-2012 08:12PM

PMU wrote: »

galway bay looks lovely in this kind of weather,redzer

Its a bit hazy today, normally you can see connemara and the twelve pens and the aran islands, I do be waving over at johngalway there somedays but he never responds

There is a class view off it alright though!!

Bizzum · 26-03-2012 08:14PM

teaserbull wrote: »

This has been discussed to death, but having personally visited and worked with hundreds of salers across a number of countries...this issue/myth of salers temperament has only arisen here in this country, in france on several farms we frequented one could personally lay a hand on practically every weanling/calf, incredible to see... with the older stock even reluctant to move for one in the field being so docile!

Be it issue or myth there certainly is a perception that Salers are wild. Perhaps a proactive approach by the soc is needed to address and redress this perception?

They're a major success in real suckler situations

Perhaps they have something to offer, I'm sure they have. I don't see that many of them about and I see a good few real suckler situations.

And with salers being such low maintenance, great fertility rates, short gestation, easy calving, great mothering ability they are often adopted by poor stockmen who many have somewhat "leave em at it approach" on off farms etc and the like, with limited human contact ie herding etc and with any hands on human contact being for unpleasant procedures ie dosing/testing/weaning/transport! Also very few numbers of salers in the country to have a fair assesment of the breed.

I dunno are Saler breeders any better or worse than breeders of other stock. Indeed I think it's disingenuous to term them poor stockmen.

On your point of "very few numbers (of Salers) in this country".
Surely this would contradict them being "a major success in" ? After all any debate should be on their merits/demerits here in Ireland.
Further, Perhaps said low numbers contain an above average number of stock with questionable temperament? Maybe the French knew what to get rid of?

teaserbull wrote: »

the french cannot understand these complaints the irish have with the descendants of their stock? they are seriously bamboozled, I hope it's not a case that the irish are that poor of stockmen, or just initially that the Irish brand or knock something "new" or "different"? or just want to blame/ or look at other reasons to disguise poor stockmanship..... possibly the massive amount of parttime farming that occurs here is to blame?

Indeed on the grand scale of thing Charolais are only here a wet week, on an evolutionary scale. They seem to have settled in well. As did Lim, Sim and others. I think if something is good enough, we Irish will take in on board, maybe reluctantly at first but like I say if something is good enough..........Parthenaise seem to be flying at the moment, so lets wait and see.

10% of calves dying before they reach 22 days of age in this country....(majority due to calving difficulties....scours....poor beastings intake....poor husbandry... perhaps we should take note of french farming practices? as opposed to critising their apparently "wild" livestock...

Will converting to Salers solve this?

And btw I'm not claiming that wild/flighty salers don't exist! I just don't regard them anything different to other suckler breeds! if not handled often and well from an early age! they will run wild!

You could be right. My opinion is that there is room for all breeds. I have never used a Saler. I see them at the shows and can see they will bring something to the mix. I may well chance a few maybe on a small muscular type cow. I would think a SA x Lim could be decent cow.
I do think too that the Salers here in Ireland have improved. The "poor stockmen" must be doing something right.

just do it · 26-03-2012 10:54PM

As it happened- springer calving outside.

Bodacious · 26-03-2012 11:00PM

aghead wrote: »

Ya slightly disappointed with those two TUZ's my first time experimenting with said bull but calves are still quite young, the 4 dams are all fairly similar salers heifers/2nd calver dams, we just needed an outcross to our own imported salers breeding lines.

https://picasaweb.google.com/104615288857731262209/AshburySalers

Fair play to you, ye have lovely salers and have great success with them. i see your prefix mentioned alot at shows/sales.. id love to buy a pedigree saler cow/heifer in the future

limo_100 · 26-03-2012 11:01PM

use outfit i take it dats its a limousine calf? is it by stock bull or ai

Kovu · 26-03-2012 11:04PM

I think you have a ghost in the background there Just Do It:D

teaserbull · 26-03-2012 11:50PM

Bizzum wrote: »

"Perhaps they have something to offer, I'm sure they have. I don't see that many of them about and I see a good few real suckler situations."

Apologies but i don't believe any real suckler situations exist in this country, well few comparable the the large herds in the uk. and other reasoning

1. the average herd size in this country is less than 10 cows
2. Very few suckler herds in this country could actually be economically viable without supplementation whether single farm payments, reps, off farm income etc. (current beef prices has distorted views and helped lessen the HUGE deficit that existed)
3. The workforce here and a massive part time farming, through no fault of their own maybe (through other work commitments, fragmented farms etc) can operate ANY suckler system to it's highest efficiency levels with whatever breed!

"I dunno are Saler breeders any better or worse than breeders of other stock. Indeed I think it's disingenuous to term them poor stockmen."

Sorry I referring to farmers who adopted salers as a quick fix solution to their suckling situation which may not have been firing on all cyclinders before the salers introduction to their herds.

With several bulls bred by ourselves working well in dairy herds as clean up bulls with little complaints i think is testament to their suitability, with Dairy enterprises being the best measure of a stock bulls worth....calving ease wise etc and also byproduct beef production

"On your point of "very few numbers (of Salers) in this country".
Further, Perhaps said low numbers contain an above average number of stock with questionable temperament? Maybe the French knew what to get rid of? "

I can name you several salers herds here, with moderate numbers of animals, all extremely docile, you can hardly suggest that the french isolated wild strains and actively exported them to tarnish the name of their breed???

"You could be right. My opinion is that there is room for all breeds. I have never used a Saler. I see them at the shows and can see they will bring something to the mix. I may well chance a few maybe on a small muscular type cow. I would think a SA x Lim could be decent cow.
I do think too that the Salers here in Ireland have improved. The "poor stockmen" must be doing something right.

"

Salers lim, great cross, improving salers musculature whilst improving/reinforcing fertility, calving, milk....but you would be amazed by how well pure salers grade and weigh!

Salers actually possess pelvis's on average 15 cm3greather in diametre (internally most importantly) than any other breed and have a 14% greater rumen capacity than the limmo, which is highlighted in the multibreed bull test stations in france, where the emphasis is on roughage/fibre diets as opposed to concentrates...where the salers consistantly trump the Limousine in lwg's!
Also salers having the shortest gestation figures and calving ease (easier than angus's)

The 10% mortality figure of calves in this country, on an international level embarrassing.............( i know a number of factors contribute to this figure) but salers can contribute considerably in lowering this shocking figure nationally!

The calf mortality rates of salers in france is under 2% and here i do belive also is comparable....

just do it · 27-03-2012 12:31AM

Karen112 wrote: »

I think you have a ghost in the background there Just Do It:D

And here's an even better one - She's getting closer - time to get out of there!!!

just do it · 27-03-2012 12:34AM

And here is the calf 45mins after being born. When I came back to she how they were doing he was having a go at sucking and she's going to make a good mother. She's a nice quiet one and I've been resting a hand on her in the slatted pen for the last 3-4weeks. It does make a difference getting into to the pen and slowly getting them used to you putting a hand on them.

So the Springer was born Oct 09 and is as good as PB. She was out of a low round roomy beefy cow that unfortunately is gone. The calf is a bull and is either by FL22 or CVV and he flopped out. Blister at 11.15, back down to see her at 11.40. Head and front legs out, calf fully out 2 minutes later after 2 pushes. There is something to be said for Limousins! 293 day gestation by the way.

just do it · 27-03-2012 08:30AM

It wasn't a ghost after all!

limo_100 · 27-03-2012 08:33AM

just do it wrote: »

It wasn't a ghost after all!

nice growty looking calf is he off a stock bull? never mind seen ur earlier post

redzerologhlen · 27-03-2012 03:10PM

Said id go walking the wet ground today with the fine weather. Nice to see my spraying last september working

johngalway · 27-03-2012 03:16PM

Oh I just love dead and dying rushes, brings a smile to my face

Fly is having a tough time coping with this "heatwave" we're having

Muckit · 27-03-2012 03:18PM

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Said id go walking the wet ground today with the fine weather. Nice to see my spraying last september working

It's always great to see positive results after your hard work.

And fair play lad for your regular postings on this tread. Your always nearly guaranteed to see new and interesting photos when you've posted! Keep them coming

johngalway · 27-03-2012 03:22PM

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Its a bit hazy today, normally you can see connemara and the twelve pens and the aran islands, I do be waving over at johngalway there somedays but he never responds There is a class view off it alright though!!

:pac:

I do too, yer just blind! That haze yesterday was a fire I reckon, got it hard to see the islands out from my farm that are normally easy to see. See more smoke down south again today. Am going to have to start carrying the spade or shovel in the car again I think!

Speaking of views, we can see Mt Brandon down in Kerry from here some days, seen it from higher up farther North as well, as well as Aran but nor a great view of them, and the edge of the Cliffs of Moher some days as well.

redzerologhlen · 27-03-2012 03:36PM

Muckit wrote: »

It's always great to see positive results after your hard work.

And fair play lad for your regular postings on this tread. Your always nearly guaranteed to see new and interesting photos when you've posted! Keep them coming

Sound muckit, ill stay going til the camera and the iphone break

redzerologhlen · 27-03-2012 03:42PM

johngalway wrote: »

:pac:

I do too, yer just blind! That haze yesterday was a fire I reckon, got it hard to see the islands out from my farm that are normally easy to see. See more smoke down south again today. Am going to have to start carrying the spade or shovel in the car again I think!

Speaking of views, we can see Mt Brandon down in Kerry from here some days, seen it from higher up farther North as well, as well as Aran but nor a great view of them, and the edge of the Cliffs of Moher some days as well.

Ill bring the spy goggles the next day and look a bit harder!! I can see kerry from our the top of our bog aswell. Tis lovely on a fine day to climb to the top of a mountain and just sit down, tis amazing how far you can see!!

pakalasa · 27-03-2012 05:48PM

Redz,
Is it too early for Mackeral fishing at Ballyvaughan? Have you seen anyone out yet?
Must take a trip back there soon...

Tipp Man · 27-03-2012 06:26PM

Muckit wrote: »

It's always great to see positive results after your hard work.

And fair play lad for your regular postings on this tread. Your always nearly guaranteed to see new and interesting photos when you've posted! Keep them coming

I'll second that - always top quality photo's from Redzer - JohnGalway is another man who takes a great photo

If the farming ever goes to pot lads ye have another career to fall back on

redzerologhlen · 27-03-2012 06:35PM

pakalasa wrote: »

Redz,
Is it too early for Mackeral fishing at Ballyvaughan? Have you seen anyone out yet?
Must take a trip back there soon...

Seen 2 lads in black head yesterday, dont know what they were fishing for though. I dont normally go till around june and come august september you would want to be bringing a manure bag with you. Actually seen them literally jumping out of the water last year!! Could be worth a shot though.

johngalway · 27-03-2012 06:38PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

I'll second that - always top quality photo's from Redzer - JohnGalway is another man who takes a great photo

If the farming ever goes to pot lads ye have another career to fall back on

Herself bought me a camera for Christmas, I must get out and use it, just seem to always have jobs in front of me :pac:

Livestock/General Farming photo thread ***READ MOD NOTE IN POST #1***

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Livestock/General Farming photo thread READ MOD NOTE IN POST #1