Livestock/General Farming photo thread ***READ MOD NOTE IN POST #1***

Two month old LMX bull






Week old LMX bull

Bizzum wrote: »

Pic 0018: I put this pic up on the Sim thread but said I'd show her here too. A Sim bull calf off T-Bone out of a Limx cow. Was hoping for a heifer, maybe next year:).

Is there a touch of blue in that cow Bizzum. The calf looks to be built like a blue. Lovely looking cow and calf. I wish you all the best with them

jeez redzer youd want to pick a few stones:D

just do it wrote: »

FL22 heifer born on sunday from this nice 25mo SIM springer. She calved herself unassisted. But, but, but the heifer is not accepting the calf and I'm doing this twice a day. I hope I don't have to keep doing it for much longer! I'd much prefer to let them out....

Still not letting the calf suck unless her head is in the gate and I'm hovering around. Thanks be to J*s*s she's a quiet one! What do you reckon lads, how many more days before she'll let the calf suck?

(I'd bet on 5;))

Thoughts on INRA '95? 3 week old heifer calf, first calver,along with a KIB and two TUZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b-urEpqies4

Thoughts on INRA '95? 3 week old heifer calf, first calver,along with a KIB and two TUZ calves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b-urEpqies4

Bodacious wrote: »

Fine calf that inra that took off into the cow. Whats type of cow is the dam. The two leggier reds are Salers? TUZ?

Ya slightly disappointed with those two TUZ's my first time experimenting with said bull but calves are still quite young, the 4 dams are all fairly similar salers heifers/2nd calver dams, we just needed an outcross to our own imported salers breeding lines.

https://picasaweb.google.com/104615288857731262209/AshburySalers

pakalasa wrote: »

Have you tried LZR in NCBC. My AI guy recomended him above Rio. I didn't use him,...yet anyway.

P.S. - I just had a look through your photos. Fine herd there.

He's supposed to be working well in france, lzr, but his sire THE never really done much over there or here so, BHU in dovea should be the pick of salers bulls in ai here, from a replacement and beef perspective, but maybe a shade short, but that's only being really critical, fine bull, RIO has coined the phrase leggy buggers for them and questionable Milk apparently no?

aghead wrote: »

?

The main problem i find with the saler breed is the temperament there shocking wild only ever had two of them and it was to many. But they were nice cattle, but compared to the limousine the limousine is by far the more stylish animal in my opinion. And also use alot of AI limousine and never had a problem with there temperament, find them easy enough to work with.... but its just my opinion what do the rest of use guys think????

limo_100 wrote: »

The main problem i find with the saler breed is the temperament there shocking wild only ever had two of them .... but its just my opinion what do the rest of use guys think????

This has been discussed to death, but having personally visited and worked with hundreds of salers across a number of countries...this issue/myth of salers temperament has only arisen here in this country, in france on several farms we frequented one could personally lay a hand on practically every weanling/calf, incredible to see... with the older stock even reluctant to move for one in the field being so docile!

They're a major success in real suckler situations ie. australia, States, even highly regarded/sought in Scotland on the highlands, with several hundred head herds running, several salers bulls with them, were the breed comes into it's own with hardiness and low mortality rates esp at calving!

And this isn't even biased as us being breeders! as we'd have all charolais ourselves only with off farm commitments and fragmented farming we couldn't justify or manage such stock efficiently.

This is not a case of a breeder defending/ ignoring flaws with his breed, and not claiming that salers are any quieter than any other breed, but on a par docility wise, as poor temperament cattle are no addition to anyone! breeder nor commercial man so why would we continue breeding and promoting such stock if they were so wild....it would be senseless?

The UCD professors of Genetics along with worldwide experts also question the heritability of docitliy/ temperament, only believing it to have a very little bearing on progeny whatsover... below 10% heritable..... that the environment/ conditions and what calf "learns" off dam far more substantial an influence on animal temperament... ie. poor stockmanship/husbandry and facilities leading to wild cattle.

And with salers being such low maintenance, great fertility rates, short gestation, easy calving, great mothering ability they are often adopted by poor stockmen who many have somewhat "leave em at it approach" on off farms etc and the like, with limited human contact ie herding etc and with any hands on human contact being for unpleasant procedures ie dosing/testing/weaning/transport! Also very few numbers of salers in the country to have a fair assesment of the breed.

Granted they are not as stylish/visually as some limmo's or charls, but they surprisingly weigh quite well compared to many limmo's that I feel disappoint on the scales as opposed to the charls!, and when finished properly will grade good r's if not some u's!

And also with the proposals of Animal health Ireland and Johnes Eradication in the next few years, Johnes prevalence amoungst limmo's in particular, is shockingly high, Importation of limousine cattle originally credited (along with other dairy stock) of the disease into this country.

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Limo's were as mad as a bag of spiders when they came first but with a good socitey and dedicated breeders the breed it out of them and they are now the most popular breed in the country. Saler breeders should be doing the same thing and I am sure they are but claiming that overall they are as quiet as any other breed is wrong from my experience of them. I dont agree with that UCD study either, most of our cows are quiet and well handled but we have had a few over the years through no fault of our own as soon as the seen you they were going away from ya and as soon as they calved they were coming towards you, none of their calves were any better. There is a few nutters within every breed but salers at the moment seem to have a higher % than most.My uncle has 10 of them and the rest of his cows are limos, the limos are quiet but the salers are not. Actually I would go as far as to say they are dangerous when they calve and get very giddy when in a yard or crush but they do everything else well. Nobody wants the hassle of flighty and contrary cattle which is what is holding them back at the minute in my honest opinion.

With reference to to their protectiveness of a calf in the first few hours....maybe day or two post calving.....you may regard it as an issue, but look at the other end of the spectrum.....we don't want a suckler cow with poor mothering instinct either....look at cf52 daughters in charls....or other hopeless mothering skills amoungst other mas du clu limmos?? who desert the calf if not neglects it.....it's very difficult to strike a balance between mothering ability and excessive mothering/agression.....but if one knows the cow is dangerous WHY TAKE THE RISK! install facilities....and inform everyone else that the cow is dangerous around calving! It's negligence to not be weary of a newborn cow, far more lethal than any bull! whatever the breed!

And with UCD behavioural and geneticists.....it's not just their thoughts it's apparently well documented around the world....and if you take it out of your own context.... (I too was sceptical initially ) ie. If you had a newborn calf....from whatever nutjob of a wild cow whether limmo, salers, blonde whatever......take that calf as soon as it is born away from the cow, within hours (after it's beastings of course) as an experiment raise it amongst artificially reared dairy calves (away from it's cow 100% effectively rear it as a dairy calf).........you mean to tell me that heifer calf is going to be a nutjob as a cow herself? completely to the contrary, she'll act completely the same as her counterparts...a well handled socialised animal....

The heifers/salers your uncle has himself...does he know how the cows themselves were reared as calves? what the husbandry was like etc?

They're regarded as highly intelligent cattle in france, often acting as an obstacle in milking herds with milk let down etc due to the calf having to be presentat milking!

the french cannot understand these complaints the irish have with the descendants of their livestock? they are seriously bamboozled, I hope it's not a case that the irish are that poor of stockmen, or just initially brand something "new" or "different"? possibly the massive amount of part time farming that occurs here is to blame?

And btw I'm not claiming that contrary/wild/flighty salers don't exist! I just don't regard them anything different to other suckler breeds! if not handled often and well! they will run wild!