Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Mr CJ · 16-03-2012 8:35pm

The pro guys always disagreeing when we say that the majority are against this charge, have you watched this?? even fastforward to the end and listen to the feedback he gets from the public sounds to me way over 50%. Fck that redc poll I would bet my money thats fixed!!

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/46442/1/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne

If some of you think this tax is great fair enough, after all there are people still out there in the world that think hitler was fantastic Fact!!

But here the majority by far do not want this charge as it is completely unfair and the government are not going for other solutions! Its a law to be challenged and thats what we are doing!! Laws are wrong sometimes, when they are wrong are you just going to throw your hands up in the air and say ah we have to do it its the law??? if your a fool you might say yes!!

If we all acted like the pro guys we be still in the stone age thinking the world is flat. Thank god the human mind has advanced in others to bring change.

Frank Black · 16-03-2012 8:49pm

Mr CJ wrote: »

If we all acted like the pro guys we be still in the stone age thinking the world is flat. Thank god the human mind has advanced in others to bring change.

'Being against the Household Charge'

The primary driver in human evolution.

Frank Black · 16-03-2012 8:54pm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Doesn't make them right. Penalising people for buying their own home (at no cost to the state) in order to fund privately-owed debt and a bloated Public Sector wage bill? No thanks.

You hear a lot of 'right' and 'moral' talk from the Anti brigade.

I don't really understand how someone comes to this viewpoint. It's impossible to live in a society for a year without paying tax. Why should the fact that the source of some of that tax comes from your property make it immoral?

Can someone explain?

dvpower · 16-03-2012 9:04pm

5012 posts in an AH thread before Hitler gets invoked.
There must be a prize for that!

dxhound2005 · 16-03-2012 9:13pm

Mr CJ wrote: »

The pro guys always disagreeing when we say that the majority are against this charge, have you watched this?? even fastforward to the end and listen to the feedback he gets from the public sounds to me way over 50%. Fck that redc poll I would bet my money thats fixed!!

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/46442/1/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne

If some of you think this tax is great fair enough, after all there are people still out there in the world that think hitler was fantastic Fact!!

But here the majority by far do not want this charge as it is completely unfair and the government are not going for other solutions! Its a law to be challenged and thats what we are doing!! Laws are wrong sometimes, when they are wrong are you just going to throw your hands up in the air and say ah we have to do it its the law??? if your a fool you might say yes!!

If we all acted like the pro guys we be still in the stone age thinking the world is flat. Thank god the human mind has advanced in others to bring change.

I watched a bit at the start with Mick Wallace, will watch the rest later. Interesting to hear Mick's opinion of the TV Licence. Who do you think fixed the Red C poll and how was that done?

donalg1 · 16-03-2012 9:50pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

They left it out because it's not going to rise every year as it will be replaced by the property tax which they did mention

They left it out because they dont want to have people reading that it will increase drasticly. Next year will likely still be the household charge, but also likely it wont stay at €100.

Household charge = property tax.
Property tax = household charge re-badged and hugely increased.

As has been seen in this thread, €100 is seen as a low charge. Thats exactly why the government started at that level. Entice people to register for this "paltry charge".

It is working, as many see it as a paltry charge, and ask whats the problem. And others, bafflingly, see it as a seperate item, with no link to the property charge, when the only difference is in name.

Our government know there are plenty of fools and how to fool them.

Do you actually think the property tax will be self declaration if it's based on site valuation don't you think they may create a database of all those liable? Especially given the failure of collection with this charge as a result of allowing the self declaration nonsense

galwayrush · 16-03-2012 9:53pm

:pac:I wonder if a bomb crater in the front lawn would lower the valuation of ones site?

Ghandee · 16-03-2012 10:03pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Do you actually think the property tax will be self declaration if it's based on site valuation don't you think they may create a database of all those liable? Especially given the failure of collection with this charge as a result of allowing the self declaration nonsense

What's this?

One of the pro tax brigade admits its a failure?:pac:

Bruthal · 16-03-2012 10:46pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Do you actually think the property tax will be self declaration if it's based on site valuation don't you think they may create a database of all those liable? Especially given the failure of collection with this charge as a result of allowing the self declaration nonsense

Well i think they used the €100 setup to try get a database as quickly as possible alright.

Mr CJ · 16-03-2012 10:50pm

dvpower wrote: »

5012 posts in an AH thread before Hitler gets invoked.
There must be a prize for that!

Dont worry I would not expect you to comprehend what im trying to say.

Basically there are people with twisted minds out there, like the ones who support this ridiculous charge and who think its a good idea, but you are an extreme minority when will you wake up and realise this?

Frank Black · 16-03-2012 11:00pm

Mr CJ wrote: »

Dont worry I would not expect you to comprehend what im trying to say.

Basically there are people with twisted minds out there, like the ones who support this ridiculous charge and who think its a good idea, but you are an extreme minority when will you wake up and realise this?

I'll get back to you on this, now if you'll excuse me, there are some small animals that require torturing.

dxhound2005 · 16-03-2012 11:13pm

Mr CJ wrote: »

Dont worry I would not expect you to comprehend what im trying to say.

Basically there are people with twisted minds out there, like the ones who support this ridiculous charge and who think its a good idea, but you are an extreme minority when will you wake up and realise this?

Even on the poll here there are about 38% going to pay (ignoring the don't knows and the not applicables). I don't think the poll on Boards is representative judging by other scientific polls which gave a much bigger yes percentage. So I don't think you are correct in saying the law abiding people are an extreme minority.

The General Election poll on Boards gave Sinn Fein 37% making it the biggest party in the country and 9% ahead of Fine Gael in second place. The scientific polls gave Sinn Fein between 20% and 25% and I would rely on them instead of Boards just as I would for the poll here.

I am still sticking by my prediction of two or three weeks ago that 58% will pay by 31 March. I haven't paid yet, I will do so in 8 or 10 days time. There is no reason for anyone to hand over their money yet.

apache6 · 16-03-2012 11:36pm

the landlord has to pay it not the tehant. OK

steddyeddy · 16-03-2012 11:40pm

Im for a property tax, only if its a fair one. This isnt a fair one. Property taxs in other countries facilitate the redistribution of wealth. This doesnt as one man on vincent browne said last night. The logistics involved in taxing according to property size are not vast and can be easily put in place. He also said he could do it for free.

dvpower · 16-03-2012 11:48pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im for a property tax, only if its a fair one. This isnt a fair one. Property taxs in other countries facilitate the redistribution of wealth. This doesnt as one man on vincent browne said last night. The logistics involved in taxing according to property size are not vast and can be easily put in place. He also said he could do it for free.

This one is just a placeholder for the proper one.
It'd be better if they had just went straight for the real one, but they weren't ready and they had agreed the tax in the MOU.
Not ideal but it is just a placeholder charge with a fairly nominal value.

apache6 · 16-03-2012 11:51pm

It has been quoted on here that the number paying has leaped to 25%.
This is probably untrue - 300,000 households are entitled to claim a waver under the rules, but they have to register to claim this waiver, they make up about 20% and they will of course register, so it is unlikely that much more than 10% have actually paid.
Keep your nerve people - remember too that you can NOT go to jail for non payment, it works on a penalty and interest system.

Just because our leaders have no backbone and will sell us all into servitude so long as they can keep their snouts in the trough.

dvpower · 16-03-2012 11:53pm

apache6 wrote: »

It has been quoted on here that the number paying has leaped to 25%.

No it hasn't.

steddyeddy · 16-03-2012 11:55pm

dvpower wrote: »

This one is just a placeholder for the proper one.
It'd be better if they had just went straight for the real one, but they weren't ready and they had agreed the tax in the MOU.
Not ideal but it is just a placeholder charge with a fairly nominal value.

They have plenty of time. Its not a lot of work to tax by land size. Fair or not at all.

dxhound2005 · 17-03-2012 12:00am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im for a property tax, only if its a fair one. This isnt a fair one. Property taxs in other countries facilitate the redistribution of wealth. This doesnt as one man on vincent browne said last night. The logistics involved in taxing according to property size are not vast and can be easily put in place. He also said he could do it for free.

There's a fair bit of redistribution of wealth going on already. For instance people who say they won't pay €100 because it is unfair to tax the family home could easily be the same people who are getting €1700 tax free for each of their children in Child Benefit. Some people might think that this is an unfair and unjust use of their taxes and no such payment existed in this country until 1944. But in a democracy governments come and go and they can introduce or increase taxes and change spending and borrowing. If individual citizens think particular taxes are unjust or unfair it still doesn't mean they are not subject to the law.

I look forward to a time when local taxes which existed in the past to pay for local services can operate here again like they do in the North and all around the world. If the government falls on this issue who knows what sort of people could take over and what they would have in store for us.

Vincent Browne is in no position to talk about redistribution of wealth. He came from a priveleged background enjoying private fee paying schooling and university when it was only for the rich. And he has mostly lived in houses worth €2 or €3 million. He is also a failed politician having been rejected by Fine Gael when he sought their nomination to stand for the Dail and the European Parliament.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 12:00am

steddyeddy wrote: »

They have plenty of time. Its not a lot of work to tax by land size. Fair or not at all.

They didn't have plenty of time.
The MOU has us implementing a property tax by end Q4 2011.

donalg1 · 17-03-2012 12:00am

Ghandee wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Do you actually think the property tax will be self declaration if it's based on site valuation don't you think they may create a database of all those liable? Especially given the failure of collection with this charge as a result of allowing the self declaration nonsense

What's this?

One of the pro tax brigade admits its a failure?:pac:

Well if you give people the chance to evade their taxes some will do it every time and quote some moral reason for doing so when really they just don't want to pay it.

The only failure will be when this charge isn't scrapped all the protestors etc. will admit they failed then I'm sure!!!

Where did I say I was pro tax I have only ever said I'm paying it, doesn't mean I agree with it. There are plenty of aspects of it I don't agree with but not enough to convince me to break the law.

Bullseye1 · 17-03-2012 12:05am

Even those who are exempt have to register.

gerryo777 · 17-03-2012 12:07am

dvpower wrote: »

They didn't have plenty of time.
The MOU has us implementing a property tax by end Q4 2011.

I can see your gravestone whenever you depart this mortal coil,

"Here lies DV POWER, he lived and died by the MOU"

May he, and it rest in peace.;)

apache6 · 17-03-2012 12:07am

dxhound 2005 said;
"If the government falls on this issue who knows what sort of people could take over and what they would have in store for us"

The 'what sort of people', you allude to may well be people who do what they say they are going to do as opposed to a Government made up of people who promised change and guess what we got it - change for the worse from an inept bunch of incompetents.

Mr CJ · 17-03-2012 12:12am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I watched a bit at the start with Mick Wallace, will watch the rest later. Interesting to hear Mick's opinion of the TV Licence. Who do you think fixed the Red C poll and how was that done?

I just find it very curious that every other poll I have seen shows completely different, here are just some below, I am sure this can be expanded perhaps double with similar results

http://www.clare.fm/poll/will-you-pay-100-euro-household-charge-new-year?nocache=1

http://www.clare.fm/poll/will-you-pay-100-euro-household-charge?nocache=1

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-will-you-pay-the-household-charge-292920-Nov2011/

http://www.kellsonline.ie/?p=2688

http://www.wsm.ie/c/household-charge-boycott-sinn-fein-ireland

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?parent=1772112&nav=37

http://blogs.myhome.ie/2011/12/16/household-charge-will-you-pay-it-is-it-worth-it/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSbdpLp0GMU

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-are-you-in-favour-of-water-charges-328843-Jan2012/

Dont forget all the replies Vincent got on his show also.
Dont forget the poll above increasing every day I might add...

Bruthal · 17-03-2012 12:13am

gerryo777 wrote: »

I can see your gravestone whenever you depart this mortal coil,

"Here lies DV POWER, he lived and died by the MOU"

May he, and it rest in peace.;)

Well at least they will have broken no laws, so their eternity of nothingness will be a better one than those that did.

dxhound2005 · 17-03-2012 12:18am

apache6 wrote: »

dxhound 2005 said;
"If the government falls on this issue who knows what sort of people could take over and what they would have in store for us"

The 'what sort of people', you allude to may well be people who do what they say they are going to do as opposed to a Government made up of people who promised change and guess what we got it - change for the worse from an inept bunch of incompetents.

As it happens I don't think the government will fall and the tax is here to stay. If it lasts out until 2016 I cannot see any incoming administration doing away with a steady stream of income. But of course if some party promises to abolish the tax all the anti people here would not doubt flock to their cause and we would be back to square one if they got in government. Square one being the situation left to us in 1977 when domestic rates were abolished leaving local services dependent on income tax redistributed from central government. Which is a failed model (everyone now pays privately for waste disposal for instance) the failure being disguised for a good few years in the interim by stamp duty from the housing bubble.

paddy147 · 17-03-2012 12:19am

apache6 wrote: »

the landlord has to pay it not the tehant. OK

which will cause rental prices to rise up alot too.

dxhound2005 · 17-03-2012 12:24am

Mr CJ wrote: »

I just find it very curious that every other poll I have seen shows completely different, here are just some below, I am sure this can be expanded perhaps double with similar results

http://www.clare.fm/poll/will-you-pay-100-euro-household-charge-new-year?nocache=1

http://www.clare.fm/poll/will-you-pay-100-euro-household-charge?nocache=1

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-will-you-pay-the-household-charge-292920-Nov2011/

http://www.kellsonline.ie/?p=2688

http://www.wsm.ie/c/household-charge-boycott-sinn-fein-ireland

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?parent=1772112&nav=37

http://blogs.myhome.ie/2011/12/16/household-charge-will-you-pay-it-is-it-worth-it/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSbdpLp0GMU

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-are-you-in-favour-of-water-charges-328843-Jan2012/

Dont forget all the replies Vincent got on his show also.
Dont forget the poll above increasing every day I might add...

You went to a lot of trouble there. All I will say is go back to Post #7 on Page 1 for the words of a very wise person.

apache6 · 17-03-2012 12:25am

paddy 147,
yes so this will increase the burden on those least able to bear it.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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