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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #5042
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    apache6 wrote: »
    paddy 147,
    yes so this will increase the burden on those least able to bear it.

    The renters?

    Seems like every section of society is the one least able to bear it whenever additional taxation is discussed.


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    #5043
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Well at least they will have broken no laws, so their eternity of nothingness will be a better one than those that did.
    Reckon we're going to hell then robbie.....


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    #5044
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    dxhound2005,
    It would seem not to matter who is in power, we get nailed whoever they are. They failed to play hardball with the European Cetral Bank and we will be taxed for ever more to pay the Bondholders.
    I have no problem paying taxes for services etc. but we are not just paying for the lash ups of the previous government we are paying for the complete failure of this one to negotiate on the bond write down - these fools have been quibbeling about interest rates on the bail out rather than the big issue which is the bonds.


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    #5045
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    apache6 wrote: »
    paddy 147,
    yes so this will increase the burden on those least able to bear it.
    Landlords may benefit from the €200 NPPR being abolished with the introduction of the property tax. I posted that this will actually happen before which is not the case yet but their organisations are pushing for it. A little remarked on fact (except by myself) is that 340,000 people with more that one home paid the €200 in 2010 under the same self registration system as exists for the Household Charge. And there was no big campaign of resistance. Of course the ones who haven't paid now owe about €1800 rising by €60 a month (instead of paying €600). No prosecutions but they will have to pay eventually when the property changes hands.

    BTW apache if you want to quote a previous post there is the Quote button at the bottom of each post.


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    #5046
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    dvpower wrote: »
    The plan for an increase in the charge next year is in the MOU. The plan to migrate this charge to a Property Tax is also stated Government policy.

    Of all of the various taxes and charges that we pay, the roadmap for this one is quite clear.

    No it's not. Where are the specifics. Plans require specifics.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Its quite sad you had to go back 10 years searching 11,000 posts though
    (spending 100quid in the pub does that:D), quite revealing to see your position on that other forthcoming charge :P

    I'm curious from the no side, why are they afraid of the property tax, do they have many large trophy homes or something?

    Not really. Took about 2 minutes. What's sad is that I only had to select a few random pages to find examples of your own hypocrisy. Directly after you called others hypocrites.

    Unfortunately for you it's not up to the anti charge people to prove why they do not want to pay. It's up to the people introducing it to justify the reasons for it's implementation.

    Personally, I have no problem with a property tax.


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    #5047
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    apache6 wrote: »
    dxhound2005,
    It would seem not to matter who is in power, we get nailed whoever they are. They failed to play hardball with the European Cetral Bank and we will be taxed for ever more to pay the Bondholders.
    I have no problem paying taxes for services etc. but we are not just paying for the lash ups of the previous government we are paying for the complete failure of this one to negotiate on the bond write down - these fools have been quibbeling about interest rates on the bail out rather than the big issue which is the bonds.

    Well then some of all taxation PAYE, VAT, etc is going to this purpose which makes them as equally unfair and unjust as the Household Charge. The receipts from the Household Charge are actually placed in the Local Government Fund for redistribution to local authorities. If this is to replace PAYE used for that purpose presently then the PAYE is actually the unfair and unjust tax going to the bondholders.


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    #5048
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    I am a full time carer for my 90 year old Mum who has severe dementia, she put her house in my name before she bacame legally incopetent to do so (although she inserted a clause saying she could live in it at any time if she wanted too), she now lives with me - i had to give up work to look after her in my house, i can't sell her house. so i have to pay all the charges on two houses, Household charge, maintainence etc on two houses all out of a carers allowance and my Mums half pension.
    I know people can say i have two houses but we have to live in one and can't sell the other as i have explained and i tell you it's becoming a nightmare on the money front not alone the stress.


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    #5049
    golfwallah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    They have plenty of time. Its not a lot of work to tax by land size. Fair or not at all.

    "They have plenty of time" - Where did you get that from? Must have made it up, as implementing a property tax by end 2011 is just one of the conditions of our debt bailout (as set out in the MoU).

    "Its not a lot of work to tax by land size": Made that up as well, didn't you? Or have you done a detailed impact assessment .... please fill us in.

    "Fair or not at all": Anyone could say that about any tax they didn't want to pay or any law they they didn't want to abide by. You just want to pick and choose your own form of democracy, now, don't you?

    All the above types of issues were raised in the Dail debates before the household charge was passed into law by a majority of the house this last December.


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    #5050
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mconigol wrote: »
    No it's not. Where are the specifics. Plans require specifics.
    Can you be a bit more specific about the specifics you're looking for ?


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    #5051
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    apache6 wrote: »
    paddy 147,
    yes so this will increase the burden on those least able to bear it.


    Alot of renters are people who actually prefer to rent (dont want hassle of a mortgage) and who have well paid jobs,but just cannot get a mortgage off the banks,due to the banks attitudes to lending money.

    As a result of this,the rental market is booming at the moment.


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    #5052
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Alot of renters are people who prefer to rent and who have well paid jobs,but just cannot get a mortgage off the banks,due to the banks attitudes to lending money.

    The rental market is booming at the moment.


    Is Ireland going to follow much of mainland europe as a nation of renters rather than owners, just a thought.


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    #5053
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    apache6 wrote: »
    Is Ireland going to follow much of mainland europe as a nation of renters rather than owners, just a thought.


    Quite Possibly.

    It will be a generation of renters in Ireland and not home owners.


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    #5054
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    apache6 wrote: »
    I am a full time carer for my 90 year old Mum who has severe dementia, she put her house in my name before she bacame legally incopetent to do so (although she inserted a clause saying she could live in it at any time if she wanted too), she now lives with me - i had to give up work to look after her in my house, i can't sell her house. so i have to pay all the charges on two houses, Household charge, maintainence etc on two houses all out of a carers allowance and my Mums half pension.
    I know people can say i have two houses but we have to live in one and can't sell the other as i have explained and i tell you it's becoming a nightmare on the money front not alone the stress.

    I sympathise with your dilemma. As much as taxation and spending for local services this is actually the long term nightmare for society. People living much much longer than even 30 or 50 years ago and reaching a state of infirmity demanding colossal spending in pensions and healthcare. And the percentage of the population working and paying taxes diminishing all the time as well.


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    #5055
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    dvpower wrote: »
    Can you be a bit more specific about the specifics you're looking for ?

    No


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    #5056
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I sympathise with your dilemma. As much as taxation and spending for local services this is actually the long term nightmare for society. People living much much longer than even 30 or 50 years ago and reaching a state of infirmity demanding colossal spending in pensions and healthcare. And the percentage of the population working and paying taxes diminishing all the time as well.

    To make matters worse Mother was raised in an Orphanage and was a victim of institutional abuse so i have had to promise her for as long as i can remember that she will never be put in 'a home'. She has had very little intervention from the health service, i had a two year war of attrition with them to prescribe her with the medication that delays the onset of Alzheimers which i won in the end but it was a hollow victory as the timeframe for the drug to be of real benefit to her had passed while they exerted their energy resisting me.


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    #5057
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    apache6 wrote: »
    I am a full time carer for my 90 year old Mum who has severe dementia, she put her house in my name before she bacame legally incopetent to do so (although she inserted a clause saying she could live in it at any time if she wanted too), she now lives with me - i had to give up work to look after her in my house, i can't sell her house. so i have to pay all the charges on two houses, Household charge, maintainence etc on two houses all out of a carers allowance and my Mums half pension.
    I know people can say i have two houses but we have to live in one and can't sell the other as i have explained and i tell you it's becoming a nightmare on the money front not alone the stress.


    So if your mother lives with you,then you can rent the other house out,cant you?(3,6 or 12 month rental contracts)

    Or else just dont pay the charge?

    Problem solved.


    No dissrespect is meant here to you,but theres ALOT of people who are on illness or invalidity benifit,or on the dole,who cant make ends meet each week,but they all are expected to pay too.

    They are not exempt from the charge.


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    #5058
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    This is still an issue? It took about five minutes for people to start ignoring penalty points. This will go the same road.

    Stop talking about it, it'll drop out of focus and won't be remembered this time next year.


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    #5059
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    Yes, it is rented but because of the clause she had inserted i am unable to issue a lease so one short term tenant after another - unless i break the law and say nothing.


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    #5060
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    paddy 147,
    I have not made myself understood, i am not suggesting i should be exempt, i am saying that the system in general can be unfair - hey life's unfair right.


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    #5061
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    apache6 wrote: »
    Yes, it is rented but because of the clause she had inserted i am unable to issue a lease so one short term tenant after another - unless i break the law and say nothing.

    Break the law and say nothing.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5062
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    paddy147 wrote: »
    No dissrespect is meant here to you,but theres ALOT of people who are on illness or invalidity benifit,or on the dole,who cant make ends meet each week,but they all are expected to pay too.

    They are not exempt from the charge.

    Them people dont matter to the yes posters. To them its the law, you must pay even if you cant. Get rid of your broadband, the car, maybe even the electricity, save your country. If not, your selfish.

    Its likely the yes posters in here wont have much difficulty paying. Its a "paltry €100" dont forget.


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    #5063
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    apache6 wrote: »
    paddy 147,
    I have not made myself understood, i am not suggesting i should be exempt, i am saying that the system in general can be unfair - hey life's unfair right.

    Well,you have a constant monthly rental income and you also get a SW payment/full careers allowence too.

    Things cant be that bad.

    And if you are the legal owner of the house,as in the house was legally signed over to you via solictors papers,then you are the legal owner can sell it.

    Because you are the sole legal owner of the 2nd house.


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    #5064
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    robbie 7730

    I have had enough "stand up and be counted or lay down and be mounted" is the new ireland.

    I will not pay on a matter of enough is enough, i get no services from the local council anyway.


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    #5065
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    This is still an issue? It took about five minutes for people to start ignoring penalty points. This will go the same road.

    Stop talking about it, it'll drop out of focus and won't be remembered this time next year.

    Yes still the law and people are still talking about it. It's a serious piece of leglislation, worth a read.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf


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    #5066
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    paddy147, i am the owner but because of the clause i am not the beneficial owner and therefore can not sell it while my Mum is alive unless a Doctor states that she will never be able to live there and they are not prepared to put their name to that for some strange reason.


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    #5067
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    apache6 wrote: »
    paddy147, i am the owner but because of the clause i am not the beneficial owner and therefore can not sell it while my Mum is alive unless a Doctor states that she will never be able to live there and they are not prepared to put their name to that for some strange reason.


    But you are her "full time carer" and she lives with you because of severe dimensia.


    Are you registered with the PRTB for renting out the house?

    The goverment will try to nail alot of people this way (via the PRTB).


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    #5068
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Yes still the law and people are still talking about it. It's a serious piece of leglislation, worth a read.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

    The various other property taxes since 1977 were "serious pieces of legislation" too and were proved to be unworkable and scrapped.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5069
    apache6
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭apache6


    Yes, PRTB and NPPR and now a social charge, what next


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    #5070
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    apache6 wrote: »
    Yes, PRTB and NPPR and now a social charge, what next


    Tax for farting????

    Maybe a bicycle tax???


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    #5071
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    The various other property taxes since 1977 were "serious pieces of legislation" too and were proved to be unworkable and scrapped.
    Do you think this one will be scrapped?


This discussion has been closed.
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