What would you do with Peyton Manning?

me-skywalker · 08-03-2012 05:12PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

just play 'em both. Use Tebow as a full back/quarter back. Manning can release to him for runs or throws - moves Tebow out of the pocket into a bit of space which we know he can exploit and gives Tebow a couple of years to learn off Manning AND Elway.

Mohammed Nutritious Earache wrote: »

ooooooo trick plays could be fun

Haha this would be worth paying to see. But this is professional football and not the circus... hang on...

spiralism · 08-03-2012 06:05PM

Syferus wrote: »

The Broncos simply don't have the personnel to attract Manning and they're pretty stupid if they don't realise that themselves. Thomas is still as raw a receiver as they come and Decker's potential has yet to be fully explored. A run game anchored by Willis MaGhee doesn't exactly make the blood rise, nor does a line and a coach built to run the ball, not pass it. Manning wants a team that's ready to win with a QB and the Broncos are not that. Manning won't want to step away from the potential of a QB controversy into Tebowmania, and however better Manning obviously is he'll be asked about Tebow every second question from now until the first game of the season.

Tebow's starting the first game of the season too and just about nothing that's possible can change that. At best they'll bring in a Chad Henne/Matt Moore type of player to compete, but that's pretty much the Kyle Orton level anyways. The Broncos aren't spending big bucks on another QB when Tebow's contract is already a big portion of the cap.

We have a mountain of cap space though and were an elite 8 team. We can and more than likely will invest on the offensive side. As well as that, Manning hasnt played with a defence with the talent level we have (all he ever had is Freeney, Brackett and Mathis, we've two elite pass rushers in Miller and Doom and a HOF cornerback), and that's without us getting any additions.

Though the second paragraph i would agree, like i said, we're throwing up a smokescreen. We're not going to outbid washington, miami or kansas, if he is interested in coming our way it'll be for reasons other than money.

frostie500 · 08-03-2012 06:15PM

Syferus wrote: »

The Broncos aren't spending big bucks on another QB when Tebow's contract is already a big portion of the cap.

I agree with most of your post as to why the Broncos wouldnt be attractive but Tebow was the 25th pick of the draft and his rookie contract will reflect that status. It would probably be somewhere in the region of 10 or 11 million over the five years and presumably the only way that Tebow could be a burden on their cap number was if the deal was filled with escalators for playing time (quite likely) or for winning the MVP or Superbowl (unlikely). The one thing that I would be certain about is that Tebow's cap number wont be the issue that the Broncos have to resolve if they do chase Manning

neilster · 08-03-2012 10:31PM

spiralism wrote: »

Oh i know, but was just speculating.... i know it would but these things do happen, i believe Kansas got in trouble for going after Peyton on the sly?

Well reasoned.... we do want to stick with Tebow imo, we're not going to get Peyton if it means ****ing Tebow off somewhere else. If we could sell him a Montana/Young or Favre/Rodgers scenario i'd think we'd be well in on it, if it means trading Tebow we wont, i think Elway has enough of a level head to think that we'd be quite stupid to mortgage off the future in tebow for a couple of years with Manning returning from a long layoff. We'll give it a go, but possibly as a smokescreen and we're nowhere near as invested in the idea as Washington, Miami or Seattle are.

I will say this, i'm immensly impressed with how Elway, Fox and Xanders are running things in the front office for us after only a year at it, were we to orchestrate Manning coming over and Tebow sitting in the reins to take over as an established prospect(maybe offer manning a job as QB coach after it?) it would be a stroke of ****ing genius.

I would agree ...there is a certain gravitas to how they are dealing with things ...well-reasoned....John Elway has reasoned that he can only ease Manning in instead of Tebow no-one else has the ability...no...i suspect that he has also reasoned that Tebow has earned the plaudits to sit in and learn about reading defences from the master....to perfect footwork and his mechanics...not to be traded or cast aside ....a balanced strategy

Funny this may be working in Denvers favor more than we might have thought

-Cleveland have said they will go with the draft at QB and i suspect that isnt RGIII
- The Bidwells in Arizona are apart from Mike Brown in Cincy the meanest owners ever, after shelling out all that money on Kolb i dont think they will come up with top money for Manning even tho everything says they should be players
-Mannings camp are saying he has no interest in Washington and i dont blame him
-I think he would be mad to enter the Kardashian world of the Jets....not Mannings vibe at all
- The Jags he wouldnt consider (and were a wild card anyway)
- Miami even tho they should be an option have a very thin roster, when Manning really starts to analyse them ....maybe the Marino/Ross love in will bring him in ....but Miami's function always seems to be to drive the price up ...not to actually get the guy ...maybe they are a strong contender but im doubtful

so that leaves the steady eddie sensible choices, relatively strong teams with a QB weakness ...winners or close-to winners of their divisions ....easier routes to play-offs....relatively steady ownership/coaching & front office scenarios ...a bit like the Colts in a way...in a way the Broncos would have the best succession so the big contenders are

Kansas, Seattle & Denver

kmart6 · 08-03-2012 10:38PM

spiralism wrote: »

We have a mountain of cap space though and were an elite 8 team.

This isn't College basketball!

spiralism · 08-03-2012 10:48PM

kmart6 wrote: »

This isn't College basketball!

I like the term, i like hearing us and elite in the same sentence

spiralism · 08-03-2012 10:51PM

neilster wrote: »

I would agree ...there is a certain gravitas to how they are dealing with things ...well-reasoned....John Elway has reasoned that he can only ease Manning in instead of Tebow no-one else has the ability...no...i suspect that he has also reasoned that Tebow has earned the plaudits to sit in and learn about reading defences from the master....to perfect footwork and his mechanics...not to be traded or cast aside ....a balanced strategy

Funny this may be working in Denvers favor more than we might have thought

-Cleveland have said they will go with the draft at QB and i suspect that isnt RGIII
- The Bidwells in Arizona are apart from Mike Brown in Cincy the meanest owners ever, after shelling out all that money on Kolb i dont think they will come up with top money for Manning even tho everything says they should be players
-Mannings camp are saying he has no interest in Washington and i dont blame him
-I think he would be mad to enter the Kardashian world of the Jets....not Mannings vibe at all
- The Jags he wouldnt consider (and were a wild card anyway)
- Miami even tho they should be an option have a very thin roster, when Manning really starts to analyse them ....maybe the Marino/Ross love in will bring him in ....but Miami's function always seems to be to drive the price up ...not to actually get the guy ...maybe they are a strong contender but im doubtful

so that leaves the steady eddie sensible choices, relatively strong teams with a QB weakness ...winners or close-to winners of their divisions ....easier routes to play-offs....relatively steady ownership/coaching & front office scenarios ...a bit like the Colts in a way...in a way the Broncos would have the best succession so the big contenders are

Kansas, Seattle & Denver

But here's the thing. We have Tebow so it's a QB controversy from the off and we don't want to pay him like the other teams. Seattle are in the NFC and he wants to be in a separate conference to Eli apparently.. therefore Kansas are the only runners, they'll pay up and are a team that only needs a QB, nothing else.

neilster · 08-03-2012 10:52PM

Syferus wrote: »

The Broncos simply don't have the personnel to attract Manning and they're pretty stupid if they don't realise that themselves. Thomas is still as raw a receiver as they come and Decker's potential has yet to be fully explored. A run game anchored by Willis MaGhee doesn't exactly make the blood rise, nor does a line and a coach built to run the ball, not pass it. Manning wants a team that's ready to win with a QB and the Broncos are not that. Manning won't want to step away from the potential of a QB controversy into Tebowmania, and however better Manning obviously is he'll be asked about Tebow every second question from now until the first game of the season.

Tebow's starting the first game of the season too and just about nothing that's possible can change that. At best they'll bring in a Chad Henne/Matt Moore type of player to compete, but that's pretty much the Kyle Orton level anyways. The Broncos aren't spending big bucks on another QB when Tebow's contract is already a big portion of the cap.

Firstly Denver have put in a very serious enquiry about Manning ...thats widely reported ...so events may be over-taking us or your opinion

Secondly i dont think you are putting yourself in Mannings shoes...lets look at the 2011 season, he cant join the Pats or Giants .... the Title game participants San Fran are tying their colours to Alex Smith & the Ravens to JoeFlacco...the next best teams , the Steelers, Green Bay , Saints have all settled QB scenarios. The next tier of teams Atlanta, Detroit, Cincinnati , Houston & Tennessee are in a similar position. We could argue the toss on Matt Schaub but whatever.

The next tier of teams with 8-8 ish records with a QB need ,who have won their division or a play-off game or a division or play-off game in the last few years are Denver , Arizona , Seattle , Kansas & Miami .

Now if Manning wont be chosen by the above ....he needs to choose from the five included and which one won a play-off game ?

Now i agree on the face of it ...Manning needs Houston or SanFran to want him who are ready to win a SuperBowl ....or he needs to want to join the Jets (but there dysfunctional ) who have the defence but he will look at it and go ..no thanks

spiralism · 08-03-2012 10:55PM

neilster wrote: »

Firstly Denver have put in a very serious enquiry about Manning ...thats widely reported ...so events may be over-taking us or your opinion

Secondly i dont think you are putting yourself in Mannings shoes...lets look at the 2011 season, he cant join the Pats or Giants .... the Title game participants San Fran are tying their colours to Alex Smith & the Ravens to JoeFlacco...the next best teams , the Steelers, Green Bay , Saints have all settled QB scenarios. The next tier of teams Atlanta, Detroit, Cincinnati , Houston & Tennessee are in a similar position. We could argue the toss on Matt Schaub but whatever.

The next tier of teams with 8-8 ish records with a QB need ,who have won their division or a play-off game or a division or play-off game in the last few years are Denver , Arizona , Seattle , Kansas & Miami .

Now if Manning wont be chosen by the above ....he needs to choose from the five included and which one won a play-off game ?

Well reasoned. Though Kansas did manage to get their 11-5 and playoff game without a good QB so that's another perspective. They'll also pay him more than we will.

Checked the odds there, we have interestingly come in from 25/1 to 12/1, which falls in line with your speculation. Kansas are 7, Miami 15/8, Cardinals 5/2 and Seahawks 13/2

neilster · 08-03-2012 11:09PM

spiralism wrote: »

But here's the thing. We have Tebow so it's a QB controversy from the off and we don't want to pay him like the other teams. Seattle are in the NFC and he wants to be in a separate conference to Eli apparently.. therefore Kansas are the only runners, they'll pay up and are a team that only needs a QB, nothing else.

Practically the only person apart from Tom Brady to quieten disquiet about displacing Tebow is Peyton Manning ...this is a MVP, Superbowl winner...11 playoff years in 13....two SuperBowl appearances ....and i think Elway knows it

He also knows he doesnt have to discard tebow, he can make him Steve Young ....If you think about it ....there is a certain symmetry to this

More than Ross in Miami or anybody else Elway has to do this

- it allows him to highly achieve with a class act he always wanted
-it also allows him to square off the Tebow issue for maybe 2-3 seasons, will Bronco fans give a **** if they reach division titles and a title game maybe...with Manning ?
-Politically he hasnt crucified Tebow ...hes improving him whilst improving his franchises' chances of winning ....is that not his job ?

Washington is out now...Denver can come up with as much money as anyone....Miami will probably set the floor on the price but Manning will ultimately choose ...honestly how many would choose Miami over Denver on a football basis....Arizona will skin-flint like they done on Warner

neilster · 08-03-2012 11:20PM

spiralism wrote: »

Well reasoned. Though Kansas did manage to get their 11-5 and playoff game without a good QB so that's another perspective. They'll also pay him more than we will.

Checked the odds there, we have interestingly come in from 25/1 to 12/1, which falls in line with your speculation. Kansas are 7, Miami 15/8, Cardinals 5/2 and Seahawks 13/2

thats what i meant by recent seasons...it was Kansas and the Seahawks i meant really .....How do we know Kansas will pay more ? i know there is cap space but lots of manipulation can happen ? Myself i would say Denver would have more cachet and success ....Maybe they are the two left ...it could happen ....and Kansas arent in the running at all

I think all the teams ive described will come up with 20mill a year ...they will do it ...the Cards will lowball ...they always do

spiralism · 08-03-2012 11:25PM

neilster wrote: »

thats what i meant by recent seasons...it was Kansas and the Seahawks i meant really .....How do we know Kansas will pay more ? i know there is cap space but lots of manipulation can happen ? Myself i would say Denver would have more cachet and success ....Maybe they are the two left ...it could happen ....and Kansas arent in the running at all

I think all the teams ive described will come up with 20mill a year ...they will do it ...the Cards will lowball ...they always do

Cards will because Bidwill is cheap. Kansas can afford to throw 25 million a year though and their roster is better than ours imo. Us, Seattle and Miami will probably throw 20 (possibly 15 in our case, we are not going to win a bidding war with four teams and a qb already there) and various incentives while trying to sell the mere idea of playing for us. If we could sell Manning on taking our offer on the basis of the organisation we're running(one advantage i think we have on the teams in the running, its far less dysfunctional than Miami or Kansas, even seattle and isnt cheap like Arizona) and the team we have, then sure, we have a shot.

Gisty · 09-03-2012 02:22AM

9ers should go get him.

Then sign Wallace away from the Steelers. They'll give up their first rounder, but its only no.30, so meh.

Bring in Reggie Wayne too.

Manning, Vernon Davis, Wallace, Wayne, Crabtree, Gore and that O-line? Om nom nom.

Syferus · 09-03-2012 04:02AM

Gisty wrote: »

9ers should go get him.

Then sign Wallace away from the Steelers. They'll give up their first rounder, but its only no.30, so meh.

Bring in Reggie Wayne too.

Manning, Vernon Davis, Wallace, Wayne, Crabtree, Gore and that O-line? Om nom nom.

I see you're applying Madden logic to the league.

kmart6 · 09-03-2012 04:06AM

Syferus wrote: »

I see you're applying Madden logic to the league.

Oh and they'll get Mario as well!

adrian522 · 09-03-2012 10:04AM

Gisty wrote: »

9ers should go get him.

Then sign Wallace away from the Steelers. They'll give up their first rounder, but its only no.30, so meh.

Bring in Reggie Wayne too.

Manning, Vernon Davis, Wallace, Wayne, Crabtree, Gore and that O-line? Om nom nom.

I don't know where all this cap space is going to come from, also that O-line wasn't all that great in pass protection at times last year, check out the ravens game for example, I don't think Manning would have survived that.

Also 49ers have a load of free agents still to sign,

I think they had about $30 - $35 of Cap space

Then:

Goldson - Francchise Tag - $6.2
Ahmad Brooks - $2.5
Carlos Rodgers - Still not signed but presumably would cost in the region of $7
Also Ted Ginn, Adam Snyder, Joshua Morgan, Blake Costanzo, C.J. Spillman,and a whole load more.

Wallace - At least $15 in order to price the steelers out of the market
Reggie Wayne - No idea at least $7-10m
Peyton Manning - I'm assuming he would need at least $15 million

So from my point of view the numbers just don't add up.

I'd much rather the 49ers bring back their free agents from last year and maybe add a receiver than break the bank for Manning.

They could potentially work something out for Wallace or Manning but not both I don't think.

spiralism · 09-03-2012 10:45AM

Just checked the odds again for Manning, it now stands at:

Miami 10/11
Arizona 3/1
Washington 7/1
Kansas 7/1
Seattle 9/1
Jets 16/1
Denver 17/1

Miami have come in from 15/8 to almost evens now while nearly everyone else has been pushed out(except for Kansas who have stayed static at 7, sounds about right when they've actually not done much moving on the manning front), something has developed in the time being obviously. South Beach bound?

Having said that, i dunno would i agree with those odds, Jets and Washington should be further out because he's reportedly not interested and Arizona should be further out because their owners are tight.

SantryRed · 09-03-2012 11:47AM

I think the Chiefs would make the Superbowl with Manning at QB. They've got a rock solid defense and now with Bowe and Charles coming back, add Manning to that and instantly you've got a superbowl calibre team.

Danger_dave1 · 09-03-2012 01:07PM

I'd love him at the jets but I just don't see it happening. Cardinals or Chiefs for me. Both teams will drastically improve with him at qb. Both teams would have a competent backup if he gets injured. Both teams have good D's. Cards also play in a Dome.

If money is the biggest reason for Manning then it will be the skins.

Syferus · 09-03-2012 01:42PM

Miami have a very good roster too. Being in south Florida, Manning already having a home there and the usually warm and sunny weather, they have way more chance than the Cards and the Chiefs are yet to show their hand. It'll take a shock for it not to be one of those two.

spiralism · 09-03-2012 01:49PM

Syferus wrote: »

Miami have a very good roster too. Being in south Florida, Manning already having a home there and the usually warm and sunny weather, they have way more chance than the Cards and the Chiefs are yet to show their hand. It'll take a shock for it not to be one of those two.

Which two? Miami or the Cards or Miami/Chiefs?

Syferus · 09-03-2012 02:04PM

spiralism wrote: »

Which two? Miami or the Cards or Miami/Chiefs?

The Chiefs and Miami, I can't really see a good case for the Cards even if they gave him great money, their roster isnt anywhere close ready for a run and Manning would be lucky to even approach what Warner achieved in 2009 and 2010.

neilster · 09-03-2012 02:09PM

spiralism wrote: »

Cards will because Bidwill is cheap. Kansas can afford to throw 25 million a year though and their roster is better than ours imo. Us, Seattle and Miami will probably throw 20 (possibly 15 in our case, we are not going to win a bidding war with four teams and a qb already there) and various incentives while trying to sell the mere idea of playing for us. If we could sell Manning on taking our offer on the basis of the organisation we're running(one advantage i think we have on the teams in the running, its far less dysfunctional than Miami or Kansas, even seattle and isnt cheap like Arizona) and the team we have, then sure, we have a shot.

Remember owners are salivating about full stadiums, increased endorsements etc as will Manning in a new market . I personally think Manning will take 20 mill and be much more worried about the roster...ease of route to play-offs and likely control of the offence

Thats why i never saw DC as a runner, the Kyle Shanahan /Maiing dynamic ... i see where Kevin Kolb still counts as $8m against the cap next year even tho cut , they would save a roster bonus of $7m ...this is the type of detail which makes me think the Bidwells will cheapskate it

I dont think Denver will miss out on Manning over 5 mill, i think its ultimately what he wants

neilster · 09-03-2012 02:15PM

spiralism wrote: »

Just checked the odds again for Manning, it now stands at:

Miami 10/11
Arizona 3/1
Washington 7/1
Kansas 7/1
Seattle 9/1
Jets 16/1
Denver 17/1

Miami have come in from 15/8 to almost evens now while nearly everyone else has been pushed out(except for Kansas who have stayed static at 7, sounds about right when they've actually not done much moving on the manning front), something has developed in the time being obviously. South Beach bound?

Having said that, i dunno would i agree with those odds, Jets and Washington should be further out because he's reportedly not interested and Arizona should be further out because their owners are tight.

Think this is more from a lot of money coming onto Arizona more than any real foundation to it cos if the Bidwells swallow 8mill on Kolbs cap number , at least 20mill on Peytons salary and maybe 5-8 mill on Wayne/Saturday/Garcon/DallasClark ...i will eat my hat

kmart6 · 09-03-2012 07:33PM

So he's in Dener...kick in the balls for all the Tebow lovers if that happens!

Syferus · 09-03-2012 07:45PM

Still can't see it ever being a runner, he could go to dinner in Elway's restaurant and it wouldn't change the fact Denver is cold, unforgiving and roofless and their team is too young to be ready to roll with or without him. Much better options out there for someone who wants a ring.

Justin10 · 09-03-2012 07:46PM

I honestly think Manning is do to be a "bust" of sorts.
I don't think he is going to be anywhere near the same again. He is 36 in a couple of weeks.

PADRAIC.M · 09-03-2012 07:54PM

I see USAN saying manning going to "train" in Denver.....

JaMarcus Hustle · 09-03-2012 07:57PM

Rochey18 wrote: »

I honestly think Manning is do to be a "bust" of sorts.
I don't think he is going to be anywhere near the same again. He is 36 in a couple of weeks.

That's why the number one criteria on his list for a team to sign for will be protection. That's why I think Miami will be the team who eventually gets Manning. They have Jake Long at LT - one of the best in the game - and can commit to drafting Riley Reiff for RT with their first round pick. Vernon Carey was good for them at RG this year and Richie Incognito is a pretty decent LG. Mike Pouncey will be a year older at C too - I think the Dolphins offensive line is what seals the deal for them. It's a huge plus on top of a lot of other positives they have going for them in the Manning chase. I'd be shocked if he ended up elsewhere. It also can't hurt that the AFC East isn't exactly a pool of pass-rushing talent - the Patriots, Jets and Bills were 14th, 17th and 27th place respectively in sacks last year.

Adamcp898 · 09-03-2012 07:57PM

Tebow nation would be in uproar and would be calling for Tim's reinstatement after his first incompletion. Would be nice to watch all the same

What would you do with Peyton Manning?

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