What would you do with Peyton Manning?

Syferus

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Source?

I thought Khan was all about staying in Florida. Mark Lamping said as much a couple of weeks ago.

No, no, I mean the report that said the Jags wouldn't be interested in Tebow were he available. He's about the only thing on planet Earth that'd keep the Jags in Jacksonville going forward. I wouldn't believe a word out of the owner's mouth, the maths just don't work out for buying a franchise and then keeping them in a horribly failing market.

spiralism

Jay Glazer‏ @ JayGlazer

Denver is hoping to convince him to come in and get something done instead of taking any more visits

As expected... though it has been confirmed that Archie is in town with him.

Justin10

Archie will be Paytons new shadow for the coming weeks till this is all sorted out.

spiralism

Rochey18 wrote: »

Archie will be Paytons new shadow for the coming weeks till this is all sorted out.

Peyton wants this done Tuesday at the latest.

JaMarcus Hustle

RT @PeteThePlanner

The Colts pro shop's gonna look like a TJ Maxx

:pac:

Justin10

Ye so I read, dont see what the rush is. I would want to make sure teams follow through on their promises, (bringing in players etc)

spiralism

Rochey18 wrote: »

Ye so I read, dont see what the rush is. I would want to make sure teams follow through on their promises, (bringing in players etc)

He just wants this done quickly and to get down to work with a playbook asap.

Jolly Red Giant

I just wonder how many people are surprised that the Broncos have made this move.

Elway has been very non-committal on Tebow since day-one. Even at the end of the season he stated that Tebow had earned the right to be starter at TRAINING CAMP.

What has been clear over the past couple of weeks is that Elway and Fox do not believe Tebow is the answer - the Broncos have been working on plan B which is drafting Oklahoma's Brandon Weeden. The Broncos have interviewed him extensively at the combine - brought him to Denver for a private work-out and extensive analysis of video of his bowl game V Stanford where he was repeatedly asked about his decision-making - and again EXF spent yesterday morning at his pro-day picking up Manning along the way. Weeden will be a Bronco and will probably be taken with the No.25 pick (he is projected as a high second-rounder). Weeden fits everything Elway is looking for - he is smart, accurate, can make every throw, comfortable in the pocket and can read defences (everything Tebow cannot do). His only real downside is his age - he's 28 - but these days it still gives him a potential 10 years in the NFL. If the Broncos get Manning, then Weeden would be the perfect back-up for 3-4 years and then step in to pick up the reins without missing a beat for another 3-4 years and can step in if Manning ends up with injury issues from his neck. If Manning goes elsewhere then Weeden gets to compete with Tebow and probably beat him out - Oklahoma used a version of the spread offence.

Either way I cannot see Tebow in Denver in September and I think that is the direction Elway wants to go - he wants a nice quiet franchise with no media attention. Same reason DJ and his $5million cap figure will probably be gone by the draft.

Latest on Manning is that he and Archie stayed overnight in Denver and he is due to meeting the Broncos front office including Bowlen this morning again this morning. Manning still has not scheduled a meeting with Arizona or Miami (Washington are not surprisingly out of the picture and are selling their souls to get the no.2 pick - and Jets have signed Sanchez to a 3-year extension). Manning will make his decision by Tuesday at the latest - and that puts Denver in the driving seat. The discussions at Denver are likely to be - Elway 'what do you want' - Manning 'this, this and this' - Elway 'no problem - sign here PLEASE'.

I also think Denver is in the driving seat even if Manning leaves without signing a contract - Arizona are way over the cap - will have to cut their LT and will not have any money to bring in protection for Manning on the OL. Manning doesn't like media attention and that is what the Dolphins are all about - furthermore he wants stability, something the Dolphins don't have with their celeb ownership.

On top of that Manning would be almost guaranteed winning the division for his time in Denver - something not secure either with Arizona or Miami.

Other advantages for Denver -
1. Fox would let Manning run the offence and McCoy has shown he is adaptable.
2. Clady is a premier LT and the OL is good and improving
3. Denver have huge cap space that would allow a lot of supporting cast to be recruited
4. Denvers defence is perfect for Manning - fast, pressuring the QB and good at protecting the lead - filling holes at DT, S, and CB will only improve it.
5. Denver has leaders in the locker-room - Bailey, Dawkins (who would come back and play on running downs), Woodyard (who will be re-signed particularly with DJ going) etc. and nothing like the drama of the McDaniels era or in Miami or Arizona.
6. The Broncos - if Manning wanted them to - could easily bring in all of the following - Reggie Wayne, Desmond Clark, Jeff Saturday (for a year - moving Walton to back-up and develop), Ryan Deim (and if he was playing at a high enough level - allowing Franklin to move to G where he would be a steam-roller) and Joseph Addai - all of whom have been released by the Colts and all of whom Manning is familiar with.

I hope Denver gets Manning - it removes all the nonsense surrounding Tebow - and it gives Denver a franchise QB, a potentially dominant position in the AFC West, a solid stable situation and the potential to win the superbowl sooner rather than later.

Paully D

Enjoyed reading that post 'Jolly Red Giant'. Disappointed to read that Tebow could very well be off, I really liked his story and to be honest I enjoyed the whole circus that surrounded him. Will another team pick him up if he does get cut from the Broncos?

Syferus

?

I don't think anyone is surprised Elway's trying, he's been rabbiting on about competition for Tebow since before the season ended. The simple fact is a cold weather, non-dome team with a star (and that's what Tebow is, whatever you think of his abilities) QB and a team filled mostly with under-experienced players isn't the place you'd chose if you were Manning. People assume big cap room will translate into filled-in pieces but it rarely works out that simple. That division too has the potential to be alot more dangerous in the next three years, the Chiefs have the roster to win it any of those years, the Chargers are likely to be significantly improved over last year and the Raiders are in full rebuild mode themselves. If he's going to enter that division it almost surely has to be with the Chiefs.

If he does join the Broncos it'll be a mistake on his part. The Broncos won't mind, but he'll probably end up thinking back when he's retired and wondering what if he'd joined a more Superbowl-ready team.

Jolly Red Giant

Paully D wrote: »

Enjoyed reading that post 'Jolly Red Giant'. Disappointed to read that Tebow could very well be off, I really liked his story and to be honest I enjoyed the whole circus that surrounded him. Will another team pick him up if he does get cut from the Broncos?

Tebow won't be cut - but wouldn't be surprised to see him going to Jacksonville for a 3rd rounder (or possibly a 2nd). The Jags are dying in Jacksonville and Tebow is the only answer to fill the stadium and get TV viewers.

spiralism

Syferus wrote: »

?

I don't think anyone is surprised Elway's trying, he's been rabbiting on about competition for Tebow since before the season ended. The simple fact is a cold weather, non-dome team with a star (and that's what Tebow is, whatever you think of his abilities) QB and a team filled mostly with under-experienced players isn't the place you'd chose if you were Manning. People assume big cap room will translate into filled-in pieces but it rarely works out that simple. That division too has the potential to be alot more dangerous in the next three years, the Chiefs have the roster to win it any of those years, the Chargers are likely to be significantly improved over last year and the Raiders are in full rebuild mode themselves. If he's going to enter that division it almost surely has to be with the Chiefs.

If he does join the Broncos it'll be a mistake on his part. The Broncos won't mind, but he'll probably end up thinking back when he's retired and wondering what if he'd joined a more Superbowl-ready team.

Thing is though, suppose we bring in jeff saturday, dallas clark, reggie wayne, gary brackett and melvin bullitt along with him, all of which are possible moves due to massive cap room and spending power, how superbowl ready is it then?

One major advantage we have on Kansas is our offensive line, theirs is shaky, ours has had its moments but the difference would be drastic when it's manning getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds instead of Tebow in five.

Here's what we have over the other contenders:

Miami: Less of a media circus, better team and more money to spend to improve team further. Also a far more winnable division, Manning and the Dolphins would likely not win the division with the Pats about and would be in the risky business of a wildcard - not the best place to start when looking to retire with a SB.

Arizona: Far more money to spend, they have cap issues. Manning coming would be Manning alone, they'd struggle to afford him, let alone some of his old buddies from Indy

KC: They're ran in a lot more authoritarian way than us, Manning likes to have control. Pioli is known to be a bit of a dickhead and i dunno is the respect there like it is between Manning, Elway and Fox. Also, it hasn't been mentioned but Clark Hunt is like Bidwill in Arizona - tight. More complete team than us but free agency additions could change a lot, division is very winnable, Oakland are in disarray again and could well return to being shíte, Kansas wouldn't be beating Manning to a division title with Orton or Cassell and the Chargers are coached by Norv Turner.

Syferus

spiralism wrote: »

Thing is though, suppose we bring in jeff saturday, dallas clark, reggie wayne, gary brackett and melvin bullitt along with him, all of which are possible moves due to massive cap room and spending power, how superbowl ready is it then?

And how likely is all of that? Most are safety blankets for Manning but they're all getting on and in the positions where you can't mask age like you can at QB. You add a Clark or a Wayne or a Saturday to a team ready for a run to supplement some familiarity into the set-up for Manning's sake but I don't think you can rely on them pushing you over the edge.

I just don't see the Broncos being ready and teams that spend big to get a vetern elite QB, like the Chiefs or the Vikings did, usually end up in a hole after the fun's said and done. There's a longer, and immediately speaking, harder route for the Broncos but it'll be more productive. Weather Tebow's the answer or not, getting Manning isn't a basis for continuing success.

Paully D

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Tebow won't be cut - but wouldn't be surprised to see him going to Jacksonville for a 3rd rounder (or possibly a 2nd). The Jags are dying in Jacksonville and Tebow is the only answer to fill the stadium and get TV viewers.

Sorry, I didn't mean cut, rather traded etc.

Cheers. They'd certainly get plenty of exposure and put bums on seats with Tebow there.

It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.

Justin10

I would be delighted if the Donks get Manning.
Would really give the chargers front office the kick in the backside it really needs.

spiralism

Rochey18 wrote: »

I would be delighted if the Donks get Manning.
Would really give the chargers front office the kick in the backside it really needs.

Bit late for that because the real moves that needed to be made were firing AJ and Norv, i'd expect more of the same actually.

Jolly Red Giant

Syferus wrote: »

I don't think anyone is surprised Elway's trying, he's been rabbiting on about competition for Tebow since before the season ended. The simple fact is a cold weather, non-dome team with a star (and that's what Tebow is, whatever you think of his abilities) QB and a team filled mostly with under-experienced players isn't the place you'd chose if you were Manning. People assume big cap room will translate into filled-in pieces but it rarely works out that simple. That division too has the potential to be alot more dangerous in the next three years, the Chiefs have the roster to win it any of those years, the Chargers are likely to be significantly improved over last year and the Raiders are in full rebuild mode themselves. If he's going to enter that division it almost surely has to be with the Chiefs.

If he does join the Broncos it'll be a mistake on his part. The Broncos won't mind, but he'll probably end up thinking back when he's retired and wondering what if he'd joined a more Superbowl-ready team.

It is debatable (though probalby true) whether KC have a better roster - and that is at the moment - they do have the cap room. The problem for KC, despite the fact that they have already offered him a contract, is that the word from Manning's people is that KC are not on his short list and he has no plans to put them there. It appears to be between the Broncos, Arizona and Miami. On top of that KC fans understand that Elway is willing to do what it takes to get Manning - the KC FO is not.

As for the potential of the AFC West - KC could improve with Manning - but if they don't have Manning then they go with Orton - and as every Broncos and Bears fan knows - you don't win with Orton. I think the Chargers are on the slide and appear to be having trouble stopping it. The Raiders are in perennial re-building mode.

As for Arizona - they have the 49ers who are way better - and Manning doesn't really want to go to the NFC. Miami have to face the Pats twice a year as well as the Jets and an improving Buffalo side.

Syferus

People forget how good Matt Cassel was in KC's recovery last season, he's far more likely to be the starter than Orton is were there no Manning. Even without Manning KC are fully capable of being anyone in their division.

spiralism

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is debatable (though probalby true) whether KC have a better roster - and that is at the moment - they do have the cap room. The problem for KC, despite the fact that they have already offered him a contract, is that the word from Manning's people is that KC are not on his short list and he has no plans to put them there. It appears to be between the Broncos, Arizona and Miami. On top of that KC fans understand that Elway is willing to do what it takes to get Manning - the KC FO is not.

As for the potential of the AFC West - KC could improve with Manning - but if they don't have Manning then they go with Orton - and as every Broncos and Bears fan knows - you don't win with Orton. I think the Chargers are on the slide and appear to be having trouble stopping it. The Raiders are in perennial re-building mode.

As for Arizona - they have the 49ers who are way better - and Manning doesn't really want to go to the NFC. Miami have to face the Pats twice a year as well as the Jets and an improving Buffalo side.

I really think we have to be in the driving seat on that basis, we just need to push on from there. We give him the best opportunity for a playoff spot by a good way, the autonomy in playcalling and decisions he wants and have the ability to get in whoever we like to build around him.

He goes to AZ, they have to lose players to get him in, we can gain players. Not to mention getting terrorised by the Niners defence twice a year and probably finishing runners up to them as they're one of the elite teams in the NFL now. Off topic but i love the 49ers being the force in the NFC West again, it just feels right.

He goes to Miami, he gets Rex Ryan's defence and Brady twice a year as well as potentially tricky sleeper games against Buffalo.

Compared to those situations, the AFC West is a complete doss.

Chucky the tree

Very unlikely if he goes to Denver. Far better teams with pieces already in place he can go to.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Very unlikely if he goes to Denver. Far better teams with pieces already in place he can go to.

Such as Kansas and...? Nobody else that's better than us can shore up the money with cap restrictions. Whether Kansas want to or not is another thing

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

Such as Kansas and...? Nobody else that's better than us can shore up the money with cap restrictions. Whether Kansas want to or not is another thing

Dolphins and Cardinals.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Dolphins and Cardinals.

Cardinals don't have the money without cutting players to make cap room and we have a better team than the Dolphins, we can add to that too. We also have the added advantage that he'd walk the afc west instead of having to slug it out with the Jets and Brady.

Justin10

Cards would only have between 10-15m of cap room
Chiefs have huge room around 60M but they did franchise Bowe.
Donks, Redskins and the Bucs have lots of room too.

Bengals Bucs and Chiefs have the most space.

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

Cardinals don't have the money without cutting players to make cap room and we have a better team than the Dolphins, we can add to that too. We also have the added advantage that he'd walk the afc west instead of having to slug it out with the Jets and Brady.

Better team than the Dolphins? Come on. Dolphins have a far better offense anyway, Marshal, Bush, solid offense and not a bad defense either and a top 10 pick this year. Also play in warm weather all year round. It won't be difficult to slug it out with the Jets tbh, he also might relish going up against Brady twice every year. Broncos have a pretty poor offense and defense, obviously Manning will upgrade both sides but he by himself won't be enough.

Syferus

spiralism wrote: »

Cardinals don't have the money without cutting players to make cap room and we have a better team than the Dolphins, we can add to that too. We also have the added advantage that he'd walk the afc west instead of having to slug it out with the Jets and Brady.

I'd find it hard to make a case for the Broncos roster being better than Miami's, that team has a good, consistently strong defense, plenty of offensive weapons at the right age as well as a good O-line topped off with an elite LT. The competitor in Manning would relish playing Brady twice a year.

JaMarcus Hustle

Yeah I'd agree with Chucky and Syferus, there's no way the Broncos have a better team than the Dolphins, on either side of the ball.

spiralism

Syferus wrote: »

I'd find it hard to make a case for the Broncos roster being better than Miami's, that team has a good, consistently strong defense, plenty of offensive weapons at the right age as well as a good O-line topped off with an elite LT. The competitor in Manning would relish playing Brady twice a year.

We've a strong defence (now co-ordinated by one of the league's best DCs) with two of the best pass rushers in the league and a Hall of Fame cornerback, a good O-Line topped off with an elite LT and a lot of youthful skill players. Not to mention we have a veteran respected coach as opposed to an unproven assistant. Given that we could well have 30 odd million of cap space to spend AFTER manning, he knows we could set him up very nicely with a truly elite team.

from the broncos boards:

AZ media outlets can't even confirm a Peyton manning visit today yet, and if he is there is a huge event at AZ headquarters. It wouldn't allow him to really tour or do much of anything.

If we can keep him in Denver for a good portion of today it bodes well for us. Should get Todd Helton to meet him, he plays for the Colorado Rockies and is a close friend of Peyton's

frostie500

Syferus wrote: »

And how likely is all of that? Most are safety blankets for Manning but they're all getting on and in the positions where you can't mask age like you can at QB. You add a Clark or a Wayne or a Saturday to a team ready for a run to supplement some familiarity into the set-up for Manning's sake but I don't think you can rely on them pushing you over the edge.

I just don't see the Broncos being ready and teams that spend big to get a vetern elite QB, like the Chiefs or the Vikings did, usually end up in a hole after the fun's said and done. There's a longer, and immediately speaking, harder route for the Broncos but it'll be more productive. Weather Tebow's the answer or not, getting Manning isn't a basis for continuing success.

Reggie Wayne had nearly 1000 yards to prove not only that he can perform without Manning that he can also still get the job done in the NFL. There's nothing wrong with Wayne for the next three years. If Manning wants to bring in someone like him as his "safety blanket" no team is going to baulk at that. Same with someone like Saturday, Id agree that his best days are probably behind him but the centre position is one where sometimes experience and intellegence are more important than sheer physicality. You see a lot of centres playing well right until the end of their careers.

Also in relation to the Vikings making a move for a veteran QB Favre came within one play of making the Superbowl, the Vikes dont look back on his time with the team with regret, they know that he gave them a chance to win the title so his two years with the team were clearly a gamble worth taking. I agree that getting Manning isnt the long term answer for success but its a damn good place to start if youre looking for success over three to four years while bringing in a young QB to learn

spiralism

frostie500 wrote: »

Reggie Wayne had nearly 1000 yards to prove not only that he can perform without Manning that he can also still get the job done in the NFL. There's nothing wrong with Wayne for the next three years. If Manning wants to bring in someone like him as his "safety blanket" no team is going to baulk at that. Same with someone like Saturday, Id agree that his best days are probably behind him but the centre position is one where sometimes experience and intellegence are more important than sheer physicality. You see a lot of centres playing well right until the end of their careers.

Also in relation to the Vikings making a move for a veteran QB Favre came within one play of making the Superbowl, the Vikes dont look back on his time with the team with regret, they know that he gave them a chance to win the title so his two years with the team were clearly a gamble worth taking. I agree that getting Manning isnt the long term answer for success but its a damn good place to start if youre looking for success over three to four years while bringing in a young QB to learn

The vikings fans would probably argue that only for a dirty, underhanded bounty policy, Favre wouldn't have taken the battering he did and led them on to a win, but that's another story. Vikings were right to take that gamble tbh, it's as close as they'd been since the gary anderson fiasco, were they a team with better luck, Favre would have won it for them.

Regarding Centers, i'd completely agree. Look at Casey Wiegmann in Kansas, still performing at a high level and he's about 90. Wayne has still got it (even if we didn't go down that route, colorado born Vincent Jackson is available) and Clark is obviously still an elite TE.