Huge hike in road tax as motor cash dries up

Macy0161 · 06-03-2012 09:03AM

Scrap the once off charge and put it on fuel. User pays principle, and those with more efficient cars still benefit. Plus there is no way of avoiding it, so you'd get the compliance levels up, free up garda checkpoint times and free up staff in councils.

The main argument against this appears to be from business, but can't they claim the VAT back on deisel anyway? Sure they'd moan anyway about it somehow, even if the Government gave away free fuel.

bbam · 06-03-2012 09:11AM

Macy0161 wrote: »

The main argument against this appears to be from business, but can't they claim the VAT back on deisel anyway? Sure they'd moan anyway about it somehow, even if the Government gave away free fuel.

I think that's unfair..
I use my car for work and it would be an enormous personal hit for me if motor tax went onto fuel without some sort of rebate for business users.. I would fully support the notion of a fuel based motor tax, just a fair system please..

And no as a paye employee I cannot claim the vat back..

ShadowHearth · 06-03-2012 09:21AM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

So you don't like depreciation associated with buying new cars (but forget to mention the many other benefits) and you also appear not to like the increased taxes/costs for drivers of old cars with very large and energy inefficient engines which are also causing much more pollution than their modern equivalents.

I suggest you make your choices and learn to cope with the consequences?

He will drive that car in to the grave and he will still make less pollution then making one brand new car. So if you are on about how clean the new cars are, then I will tell you to cop on yourself too.

New car is a luxury and not investment. It's like saying: I will spend 25k on brand new diesel car to save 200eu per year on tax. Oh yeah I will keep that car only for 5 years untill I get bored with it. So lovely: spend 25k to save 1k eu. Other benefits of owning new car? Hmmm I would agree if we would talk about good 20 years ago, when tey had less **** in them and were more simple. You have to pay overpriced service charges in dealer of you want to keep that warranty.

There are no benefits of owning a brand new car, it's a luxury item compared to used car. If I would have money to blow, then I would buy new car. Now I poor as ****, so I'll stick with old mx5.

keithclancy · 06-03-2012 09:23AM

bbam wrote: »

I think that's unfair..
I use my car for work and it would be an enormous personal hit for me if motor tax went onto fuel without some sort of rebate for business users.. I would fully support the notion of a fuel based motor tax, just a fair system please..

And no as a paye employee I cannot claim the vat back..

What about something like a per kilometer rebate if you live further than 15 kilometers from your work ?

They could set a cap of 2500 euros per year ?

Plus it would incentivise people to use public transport.

Gophur · 06-03-2012 09:27AM

ShadowHearth wrote: »

.......

There are no benefits of owning a brand new car, it's a luxury item compared to used car...........

Where do you think used cars come from?

runawaybishop · 06-03-2012 09:27AM

Macy0161 wrote: »

Scrap the once off charge and put it on fuel. User pays principle, and those with more efficient cars still benefit. Plus there is no way of avoiding it, so you'd get the compliance levels up, free up garda checkpoint times and free up staff in councils.

No way of avoiding it? What's to stop people shooting scross the border to fill up?

keithclancy wrote: »

Plus it would incentivise people to use public transport.

What public transport? Nothing goes anywhere near me at a time that is any where near when i need.

06-03-2012 09:27AM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

................(but forget to mention the many other benefits).................

What are these many other benefits you refer to?
Considering the chap is driving a mint 7 series BMW.

Tea 1000 · 06-03-2012 09:45AM

Gophur wrote: »

If you take a 2007 registered BMW 320d, the annual motor tax is now €660 (outrageous)
a 2008 version of the same car is now €200 (ish)

That €440 difference would finance a loan of €4,000.

Therefore the 2007 car should be worth €4,000, PLUS the normal year's depreciation, less than a 2008 car, something in the order of €7,000 difference between the car's values.

Now, apply this to something like an Avensis or Mondeo and you will see how the tax system has completely f'cked up the market.

How would €440 per year fund a €4000 loan?

bazz26 · 06-03-2012 09:46AM

Gophur wrote: »

I assume you mean The Green Party? They were not responsible for the CO2 based taxation, it was a Fianna Fail initiative.

As to why buyers of low emissions cars should be continuously rewarded? I think they benefit when they purchase the car and benefit from lower fuel costs, due to lower consumption, there's no reason for them to benefit from lower annual motor taxes also.

We have 29 different tax bands. We don't need anything that complicated, except to keep some civil servants busy.

The flip side of that argument is that buyers of new cars contribute to the Exchequer via VRT and VAT included in the price of a new car. This can amount to more than someone paying high motor tax on say a 10 year old car.

quad_red · 06-03-2012 10:02AM

At the base of all of this is the simple reality: Ireland is compelled to reduce it's expenditure to bring it roughly in line with revenue.

Currently, we spend massively more than we earn. By 2014 TWENTY per cent of tax revenue will be taken by servicing our debt alone.

The Government won't look to sustaining the motor tax take - they will look to increase it. Full stop. This is inevitable.

Outside of any/all considerations of worth or fairness, whatever you drive, it will be more expensive next year. And the year after. And the year after.

The only argument then is how hard different people are hit.

In the end: it will come to this. They will try to be 'equitable' by 'targeting' higher earners.

They will probably do this by equating big engines and car sizes with more money. So calculation based on this.

And then they will apply it. And it won't be fair for allot of people. Or affordable.

So people driving a post 08 people carrier that they need cos three kids seats won't fit in the back of a normal car will get a pasting.

So people in a 2+ litre 'big car' (mondeo/passat etc.) will get a pasting.

keithclancy · 06-03-2012 10:05AM

runawaybishop wrote: »

What public transport? Nothing goes anywhere near me at a time that is any where near when i need.

Perhaps you should make your local TD aware of this issue.

Is it that its not convenient or doesn't exist ?

I don't think i've ever found public transport convenient when compared to a car unless i'm travelling into a city center, or where i'm going to is on a direct train route and close to the station.

Gophur · 06-03-2012 10:07AM

Tea 1000 wrote: »

How would €440 per year fund a €4000 loan?

11% interest on €4,000 = €440

It's the cost of money.

(Don't get into the semantics of repaying loans, I'm simply highlighting the costs involved. The difference in motor tax rates = the cost of €4,000 )

Cionád · 06-03-2012 10:08AM

keithclancy wrote: »

What about something like a per kilometer rebate if you live further than 15 kilometers from your work ?

Ivor Callely likes this.

Big Nasty · 06-03-2012 10:11AM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What does the Gov need to do, to get car owners like you to change and motor within more reasonable means?

They're getting close in fairness!:eek::eek::eek:

There was an exercise done here not so long ago on the cost of running your car to include loans, petrol, tax, insurance, repairs, depreciation, etc. For tha same amount of money that I spend running my car I could move down to an '06 1.4 Golf.

I wouldn't get much more than €2k for my car if I sold it - I don't really see the point in letting a fine car go for that money so I can buy a little tin can just to satisfy you.

Furthermore, I do cq. 5k miles a year and even though I'm driving a 3.5 why in hell should I be paying more tax then someone in a 1.9 daysul doing 50k a year and polluting infinitely more than me?

Oh, and my weekend car is a 6.6V8!:p

Bearcat · 06-03-2012 10:14AM

Hmmmm, what the fugh is 6.6 litres these days. ..? The guessing game begins.

dahamsta · 06-03-2012 10:36AM

runawaybishop wrote: »

What public transport? Nothing goes anywhere near me at a time that is any where near when i need.

I went to use public transport yesterday for the first time in ages. The bus was 10 minutes late but it didn't actually stop, it sailed past me, the driver shrugging. The three of us waiting assumed the shrug was meant to convey that he was full, although it did also come across as "I couldn't give a f*ck", much to his credit.

If the bus had stopped, I would've had to pay €9.78 for the pleasure of travelling 33 kilometers. By my calculation, that's around €3.50 more than it would have costs in my 4.4l V8 barge.

Of course that excludes the insurance, maintenance and of course the utterly ridiculous cost of road tax given my mileage, but do you know what? I'll stick with the 740i thanks. Even at 12 years old it'a more reliable than f*cking Bus Eireann.

ShadowHearth · 06-03-2012 10:38AM

quad_red wrote: »

At the base of all of this is the simple reality: Ireland is compelled to reduce it's expenditure to bring it roughly in line with revenue.

Currently, we spend massively more than we earn. By 2014 TWENTY per cent of tax revenue will be taken by servicing our debt alone.

The Government won't look to sustaining the motor tax take - they will look to increase it. Full stop. This is inevitable.

Outside of any/all considerations of worth or fairness, whatever you drive, it will be more expensive next year. And the year after. And the year after.

The only argument then is how hard different people are hit.

In the end: it will come to this. They will try to be 'equitable' by 'targeting' higher earners.

They will probably do this by equating big engines and car sizes with more money. So calculation based on this.

And then they will apply it. And it won't be fair for allot of people. Or affordable.

So people driving a post 08 people carrier that they need cos three kids seats won't fit in the back of a normal car will get a pasting.

So people in a 2+ litre 'big car' (mondeo/passat etc.) will get a pasting.

I newer knew that owning mondeo or passat was a sign of being rich ...

dgt · 06-03-2012 11:33AM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

How are the unemployed not a burden? If you ask me the dole should have a year cut off period. Far too many people sitting on it for a indefinite amount of time.

That happened to me. Know what I did? Returned to education. I have something to look foreward to as a result

I know a young chap who is far younger than me on the dole for his rent allowance, so he can sit in a grubby flat and play x box all day. What a waste

Back on topic, anyone with half a brain cell could see that the co2 system would catch up when the other cars on the old system dried out, which is inevitable.

I'll stick with my old stuff thank you very much

munchkin_utd · 06-03-2012 11:59AM

dgt wrote: »

Back on topic, anyone with half a brain cell could see that the co2 system would catch up when the other cars on the old system dried out, which is inevitable.

I'll stick with my old stuff thank you very much

inevitable is the word

And when the green party were voted out by the furious public (including motorists) it became certain that the super cheap green-party-motor-tax-regime (compared to pre 08) for all was also for the chop.

The only party that would defend this tax regime to the hilt was told by the public at the pooling booths that their policies stank but now everyone loves their policy and doesnt want it changed.

Will ye make up your mind!!
If you wanted crazy unfinancable eco laws then you shouldnt have voted the greens out of power!

Vicxas · 06-03-2012 12:00PM

Does this affect pre 08 cars? As my tax for my 1.6 corolla is a bit much as is...

dwsl280 · 06-03-2012 12:03PM

@ Beercat is it a trans am

munchkin_utd · 06-03-2012 12:05PM

Vicxas wrote: »

Does this affect pre 08 cars? As my tax for my 1.6 corolla is a bit much as is...

jaysus!!!!
thats the point

everything thats been said is to "address the new eco friendly" cheap tax on post 08 cars.

The media is spinning this that "the motorist" is due a hit as in all everyone.
Whereas its not.
Its only those in shiny new-ish post 2008 cars are due a hit.

People on the old tax are paying through the hilt already so arent "the problem" and if everything is to be believed then motorists with older cars will see no re-adjustment (not a massive major one like the indo is screaming about anyhow)

creedp · 06-03-2012 12:10PM

vetstu wrote: »

What a stupid post.
For roads you got a cpo and the council valued your land, you didn't name your price.
And most land sales are auctions so the buyers decided the price of land, and they were tripping over themselves to pay more than everyone else.

I think the point might be that some [lucky] farmers made a fortune out of land sales which were designated from farming to development land (who decided this I wonder) while continuibng to receive state subsidies and complaining about subsistence income. I know not farmers fault .. would you turn down the cheque? But it can be difficult to take when others are left with houses that have collapsed in price bacause the value of the development land has since also collapsed.

Macy0161 · 06-03-2012 12:11PM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

inevitable is the word

And when the green party were voted out by the furious public (including motorists) it became certain that the super cheap green-party-motor-tax-regime (compared to pre 08) for all was also for the chop.

The only party that would defend this tax regime to the hilt was told by the public at the pooling booths that their policies stank but now everyone loves their policy and doesnt want it changed.

Will ye make up your mind!!
If you wanted crazy unfinancable eco laws then you shouldnt have voted the greens out of power!

The greens signed up to the Trioka programme. The way they continually sold out to FF, you reckon they'd have stood up to the IMF?

creedp · 06-03-2012 12:11PM

yourpics wrote: »

Why is motor tax for taxis only €88 regardless of the type of car and in spite of the fact that they never leave the road?? Total scandal.

Why is commercial motor tax a std rate irrespective of the vehicle you are driving? Not just a taxi issue

quad_red · 06-03-2012 12:13PM

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I newer knew that owning mondeo or passat was a sign of being rich ...

I wasn't saying it was (I drive a Superb. I should know).

What I'm saying is that's going to be equated as bigger than 'average' family car, larger than strictly required, and will continue to be hit.

I ain't saying it's fair. But it seems likely that that's the way it's gonna go.

voojeq · 06-03-2012 12:14PM

if they raise the tax bands then they'll see less and less money coming in from revenues as more and more people wont pay!

they dont seem to understand basic laws of economy very well, if the price goes up then sales go down, why do they think that this will actually increase the revenues? i can't see this happening without Ireland being a Police country shortly.

:pac:

tfitzgerald · 06-03-2012 12:15PM

Sh1t I can't afford to tax the car as it is . If it goes up I dont know what I'll do

Atomic Pineapple · 06-03-2012 12:17PM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What does the Gov need to do, to get car owners like you to change and motor within more reasonable means?

Cars are a luxury item, people who want cars for pleasure rather than a gray box to get from A to B should not be forced into having to change just because the government need money.

creedp · 06-03-2012 12:19PM

quad_red wrote: »

So people driving a post 08 people carrier that they need cos three kids seats won't fit in the back of a normal car will get a pasting.

So people in a 2+ litre 'big car' (mondeo/passat etc.) will get a pasting.

How are you equating people carriers with 'big cars'. Is this because they can potentially seat 7 people? Many of these people carriers have 1.6L engines or less. Can't see how you can target an MPV as a category on its own? I agree though that post next budget everybody will be paying higher tax .. the question is where the pain will fall most

Huge hike in road tax as motor cash dries up

Comments