Huge hike in road tax as motor cash dries up

Jesh1

Linky.......

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/huge-hike-in-road-tax-as-motor-cash-dries-up-3039261.html

travelledpengy

Ugghhhh

ShadowHearth

My magic crystal ball was right! I should rent it to the lads in goverment!

MugMugs

Jesh1 wrote: »

Linky.......

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/huge-hike-in-road-tax-as-motor-cash-dries-up-3039261.html

What's your take on thus OP?

Jesh1

MugMugs wrote: »

What's your take on thus OP?

No vested interest MugMugs,
I find the governmental tax behaviours interesting.
It was always a bad set up from day one.
I would like to see how they fix the current set up.

zenno

I hope mitsubishi doesn't come into this scenario because my tax already went up and this will be the last straw if it goes up again as i can not pay it struggling like a fcuker as it is. fcuking vampires sucking us dry.

Cookie_Monster

Revenue fell to €988m last year, a drop of €72m from the peak in 2008

In reality that's not so bad though, a 6.8% decrease in 3 full years since the height of the boom. Most things have dropped by a lot more than that.

Why not just accept that government policy to lower emissions will impact revenue, it was always going to. It also impacts our emissions positively and will result in lower fines from the EU for not reaching targets. How about simply cutting more of the obscene expenditure levels to match the reduced income? :rolleyes:

bbam

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Revenue fell to €988m last year, a drop of €72m from the peak in 2008

In reality that's not so bad though, a 6.8% decrease in 3 full years since the height of the boom. Most things have dropped by a lot more than that.

Why not just accept that government policy to lower emissions will impact revenue, it was always going to. It also impacts our emissions positively and will result in lower fines from the EU for not reaching targets. How about simply cutting more of the obscene expenditure levels to match the reduced income? :rolleyes:

This is just another of the cuts in the death by a thousand cuts that were experiencing.
It's an insult to those who have purchased a car based on reduced emissions.

mrblack

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In reality that's not so bad though, a 6.8% decrease in 3 full years since the height of the boom. Most things have dropped by a lot more than that.

Why not just accept that government policy to lower emissions will impact revenue, it was always going to. It also impacts our emissions positively and will result in lower fines from the EU for not reaching targets. How about simply cutting more of the obscene expenditure levels to match the reduced income? :rolleyes:

+1

vectra

^ And now they are raising road tax again will that not hit revenue even more?

Dubit10

Robbing us blind and hitting us again. Ah well it's less money for me to spend in the real economy which will lead to more job cuts within the Irish business sector. They never learn.

shawnee

Not really surprised at this change and would have predicted it. The present system of taxation as well as being expensive creates too many anomolies and is affecting the sale of particular models of cars unfairly. For example buying a 08 bmw 520d with road tax of 160 odd and an 07 520d road tax of around a grand.
The system has also lead to people specifically buying diesel and cars that they would not normally buy in order to reduce their road tax. So it has distorted the whole market.
Cannot understand why they do not follow the model of putting the revenue on the fuel and the user who uses the road the most pays the most tax. Collection would be simple , no administration costs , no motor tax offices etc
Then if you had a flat rate of tax and you wanted to buy a 1 litre yaris or a 3 litre Jag it was up to you to decide not the fecking road tax system.:p

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand the current system came in a and people got more efficient cars as they were supposed to do. However the government was making money on VRT as new cars were bought. Now however the new car income has dried up and people get to drive their 60k cars for 150 euro a year.

So people did what they were supposed to do however the point of a tax is to generate revenue which has dried up.

I dont really see what the cost of the car has to do with it as there was VRT on that so the government should not tax you twice. However there must be a more equitable but equally eco friendly solution. I know the tax on fuel was thrown out several times and I see that as an ideal solution so long as commercial viechicals are exempted as that would drive up inflation. (I would assume some tax rebate would be the best way to do this).

The few of us here with gas guzzling cars are safe enough. We are so few that is really is not worthwhile taxing us any more than we pay already, I pay enough for 10 BMW 20d engines, yet only use 3 times the fuel. I also do tiny mileage.

shedweller

So, 72m over how many vehicles? Thats the figure that will supposedly correct the revenues books to 2008 levels. Watch the motor tax increase pass that figure with ease!

ShadowHearth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In reality that's not so bad though, a 6.8% decrease in 3 full years since the height of the boom. Most things have dropped by a lot more than that.

Why not just accept that government policy to lower emissions will impact revenue, it was always going to. It also impacts our emissions positively and will result in lower fines from the EU for not reaching targets. How about simply cutting more of the obscene expenditure levels to match the reduced income? :rolleyes:

It is bad! The figure is low now, because there are still a ton of cars with old type of tax. In 5-8 years those will disappear and the only thing left - low band tax cars.

For example: I am poor so I pay 480eu per year for a ****y ford mondeo 1.6. It won't last more then 1-2 years. So it might be replaced with a car that will be paying only 200eu tax per year soon.

Still, a very dirty move by government. Put everyone in to green ( arguable ) cars, and them tax the loving bejesus out of it.

Jesus Shaves

I have to laugh at all the complaints about the government i see these days, ye are the ones who voted them in, when has a fine gael/labour coalition ever done good for this country?

jenizzle

MOTORISTS who drive the most popular brands of family cars...

*hugs non-family car RX8*

zenno

darokane wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the complaints about the government i see these days, ye are the ones who voted them in, when has a fine gael/labour coalition ever done good for this country?

I never voted for them. We have no heads. were dry and can't give anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSk9PHuzTcI

shedweller

darokane wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the complaints about the government i see these days, ye are the ones who voted them in, when has a fine gael/labour coalition ever done good for this country?

Whatever party won would have done the same, more or less.

Jesus Shaves

shedweller wrote: »

Whatever party won would have done the same, more or less.

i don't believe that

Jesus Shaves

zenno wrote: »

I never voted for them. We have no heads. were dry and can't give anymore.

It's a definite NO from me, all because of Sean Sherlock

McTigs

darokane wrote: »

It's a definite NO from me, all because of Sean Sherlock

What has Sean Sherlock got to do with the fiscal compact treaty?

Bullseye1

This was inevitable. How someone can drive a brand new 2.0 BMW around for less than €300 a year and the older model is closer to €800. Thats a significant drop.

Jesus Shaves

McTigs wrote: »

What has Sean Sherlock got to do with the fiscal compact treaty?

The general actions of himself and the current government have made me decide that they cant be trusted withb anything including the fiscal treaty.

Cionád

Changing the goal posts every few years is a bit of a joke, you can't plan for the future when these things are continually overhauled.

And BMW get punished for producing efficient models, just because they are more expensive to buy in the first place? Surely it's better in the long run to reduce our dependencies on imported fuel, and so have more money to spend in the domestic economy.

bbam

This continual increase of taxation is just soul destroying...
We're rural dwellers and need 2 cars.. It's becoming crippling now just for us to have transport to do our jobs.. Fuel, Tax, Insurance, Repairs.... the list is endless

When will they learn that extracting so much tax from ordinary people is just shutting down the economy as there is nothing left to spend.. It's not rocket science, just plain facts..

Having a car in Ireland is mostly an essential rather than a luxury, yet it is treated as a luxury...

Can anyone tell me is there an equivalent tax on river cruisers or yachts, jet skies, how about private planes or helicopters... these are luxury goods, not our only transport option !

And it's Monday too !!

Atlantic Dawn

The 72m is easily made back many times on the additional vat alone the government has taken in over the same period due to the rise in fuel prices, never mind the additional excise duty and vat rate increases over that time.

McTigs

darokane wrote: »

The general actions of himself and the current government have made me decide that they cant be trusted withb anything including the fiscal treaty.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever but, y'know, carry on i suppose.

Markcheese

No surprise, motor tax is a revenue raising exercise , it's going to bring in x amount, once people start driving more efficent cars, then the tax goes up so in the end people will spend the same amount overall on road tax..... It was always going to happen......
But just think if you'd bought a big gas guzzler since 08...... Savage road tax AND PETROL at 1.60 a litre....
So if I've bought a frugal new BMW or merc or what ever since 08 .. You've won anyway and I wouldn't have much sympathy if yr road tax goes up to the same level as my 00 1.4 skoda.....

chrismon

I think this is absolute bullsh!t.
If you pay extra to have a more economical car why do you get penalized when they change their minds. How exactly is this going to work?
Is it going to be on ALL cars or just from 08 onwards.
This really boils my blood thinking of people like my parents who spent more than they had to on a 08 car to make it cheaper in the long run.

ShadowHearth

Bullseye1 wrote: »

This was inevitable. How someone can drive a brand new 2.0 BMW around for less than €300 a year and the older model is closer to €800. Thats a significant drop.

So maybe we should call it luxury tax, not motor tax?

Gophur

What is missed in all of the debate is the fact the annual motor tax revenue goes to your local council for the provision of services, etc, the same excuse that's being used to justify the Household Charge.

As for low-emissions cars taxation? They get their break when they purchase the car, there's no need to discriminate after purchase. (Low emissions cars, by their nature, will consume less fuel, thereby gaining, in another way)

We do not need such a complicated method for annual motor tax. We have close on 30 different tax bands for this tax, a totally ridiculous and overly complicated system (so typical of the Civil Service, though, it keeps some minions in jobs).

We, also, do not need 29 different licence plates, nor the 26+ motor tax offices. The public offices should all be closed down and payment should be either on-line or via your Post Office.

For those criticising the Govt and their governing, it's a measure of the mess they were left with by the previous administration(s).

And, for those with short memories, the CO2 system is a Fianna Fail legacy. Whatever about the Greens, they were not responsible for it, even though they might like to be.

September1

I look forward to see how it will shape future car market, as it would be really exciting change I think. Old tax made Ireland have I think smallest engines in Europe and new tax made diesel rule, but just use your imagination for example:

1. Tax based on length of car -> Irish models much shorter, special ultracompact bumpers avaliable for Irish markets, boom on hatchback, death to saloons.
2. Tax based on declared class of car -> Small cars become very big, which accidently actually already happens
3. Tax on area (width x length of car) -> Japanese van cars become new reality, Ireland to have first double decker private vehicles
4. Tax on weight -> Aluminium cars, alloys, A/C less popular, no spare wheels
5. Tax on volume of space inside of car -> low roofs, small boots, coupes?
6. Tax on external area -> spehere shaped cars

thirtythirty

At least my late '06 car might indirectly appreciate now since the outrageous motor tax cliff won't be beside it.

gerryo777

darokane wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the complaints about the government i see these days, ye are the ones who voted them in, when has a fine gael/labour coalition ever done good for this country?

They are in now because there wasn't a real alternative, should we have voted back in the shower of corrupt scumbags we destroyed our country?

FG/Labour will sort out the mess left by incompetence and probably get voted out at the next election because of the cuts that have to be made.

Then you can get the FF scum back in and within a generation they will screw the country over again.

And people say the Irish electorate are intelligent?

gerryo777

Cionád wrote: »

Changing the goal posts every few years is a bit of a joke, you can't plan for the future when these things are continually overhauled.

And BMW get punished for producing efficient models, just because they are more expensive to buy in the first place? Surely it's better in the long run to reduce our dependencies on imported fuel, and so have more money to spend in the domestic economy.

The point has been made already, people eventually will go back to inefficient, cheaper to buy cars with higher co2 outputs and then the EU will fine us for not meeting our emissions targets.
Plus they will be losing out on the higher VRT income from the larger BMW and Audi market.
More joined up thinking, is it any wonder that, when you think of it we might be better off being ran from Brussels.

creedp

chrismon wrote: »

I think this is absolute bullsh!t.
If you pay extra to have a more economical car why do you get penalized when they change their minds. How exactly is this going to work?
Is it going to be on ALL cars or just from 08 onwards.
This really boils my blood thinking of people like my parents who spent more than they had to on a 08 car to make it cheaper in the long run.

You could equally argue if you can't afford to change your car why should you be continually penalised with higher tax. I drive a 2 ltr diesel under the new system and the tax is the same as a 1.8 ltr under the old system so not that much difference but you can imagine the situation with someone driving a pre-2008 2 ltr petrol with high tax and poor economy - the value of the car collapsed post 2008 and because of this it could be very difficult to change the car. Im sure they are/were equally upset by the 2008 arrangements - high tax, collapsed value and high fuel costs. It was simply not sustainable that people could spend €50k on a car and pay only €200 pa on tax while someone with an ordinary old banger could be paying over €1,000, especially when Troika want cash!

Jump on the electric bandwagon while you can if you can afford to ecause the dream of really electric motoring wil only have a short lifespan!!

whiterebel

shawnee wrote: »

Not really surprised at this change and would have predicted it. The present system of taxation as well as being expensive creates too many anomolies and is affecting the sale of particular models of cars unfairly. For example buying a 08 bmw 520d with road tax of 160 odd and an 07 520d road tax of around a grand.
The system has also lead to people specifically buying diesel and cars that they would not normally buy in order to reduce their road tax. So it has distorted the whole market.
Cannot understand why they do not follow the model of putting the revenue on the fuel and the user who uses the road the most pays the most tax. Collection would be simple , no administration costs , no motor tax offices etc
Then if you had a flat rate of tax and you wanted to buy a 1 litre yaris or a 3 litre Jag it was up to you to decide not the fecking road tax system.:p

Because this way they do both.......

vectra

gerryo777 wrote: »

They are in now because there wasn't a real alternative, should we have voted back in the shower of corrupt scumbags we destroyed our country?

FG/Labour will sort out the mess left by incompetence and probably get voted out at the next election because of the cuts that have to be made.

Then you can get the FF scum back in and within a generation they will screw the country over again.

And people say the Irish electorate are intelligent?

How many incomes exactly does Enda take from being in Government??
Greedy Pr!ck

meathstevie

Markcheese wrote: »

No surprise, motor tax is a revenue raising exercise , it's going to bring in x amount, once people start driving more efficent cars, then the tax goes up so in the end people will spend the same amount overall on road tax..... It was always going to happen......
But just think if you'd bought a big gas guzzler since 08...... Savage road tax AND PETROL at 1.60 a litre....
So if I've bought a frugal new BMW or merc or what ever since 08 .. You've won anyway and I wouldn't have much sympathy if yr road tax goes up to the same level as my 00 1.4 skoda.....

If you would have bought a 1.6 TDI Octavia anytime after 2008 your road tax would have been in the lowest bracket as well. You can't really be judging cars on the badge on the bonnet when they fulfill objective criteria for certain tax brackets.

Take the example of Skoda - virtually identical to Audi, Volkswagen and Seat, being branded and priced differently is just about the only difference between these brands so why should the owner of the A4 be treated differently than the owner of the Octavia ?

vectra

meathstevie wrote: »

If you would have bought a 1.6 TDI Octavia anytime after 2008 your road tax would have been in the lowest bracket as well. You can't really be judging cars on the badge on the bonnet when they fulfill objective criteria for certain tax brackets.

Take the example of Skoda - virtually identical to Audi, Volkswagen and Seat, being branded and priced differently is just about the only difference between these brands so why should the owner of the A4 be treated differently than the owner of the Octavia ?

Because according to most members on here that Audi is a real car and the Skoda is a $hitbox so leave the poor people alone :P

Sesshoumaru

It is understood that only drivers of much smaller, super eco-friendly cars will escape the worst. Owners of expensive, high-performance vehicles will be hit with massive road-tax bills.

I find this part interesting as it directly affects me. What I've been told and what I expect to see is the addition of a new tax band that takes in electric vehicles and super low emission vehicles.

I think it is fairly clear that government policy up until now has definitely encouraged people to buy lower emission vehicles. With the cost of fuel likely to continue rising, motor tax increases and now EV models from several car manufacturers; hopefully sales of electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids will start to pick up.

bbam

vectra wrote: »

How many incomes exactly does Enda take from being in Government??
Greedy Pr!ck

Lads..
This shouldn't be a FF Vs FG debate, they are all essentially the same belly of pups.. Anyone who thinks either party is better either morally or politically is living in dreamland.. Politics in Ireland is stagnant, they have all come through the same process to get where they are and so have little chance of being different.. They all look after themselves and their surrounding cronies and milk the rest of us to pay for it...

No matter who brought it in or who changes it, it is bad governance to have huge U turns on a recent policy that so directly affects the average Joe in the street.

We'll have to sit back and see what they dream up for motor tax next.. Chances are it will just drive more and more to stop paying their motor tax altogether...

If myself and the missus drive round with no tax for six months, then swap ownership of our cars my understanding is we don't have to pay back tax.. Tax for six months and then repeat... I wouldn't condone such evasion, but on a technical perspective it may work..

Gophur

vectra wrote: »

How many incomes exactly does Enda take from being in Government??
.....

One. Why do you ask?

vectra

^^ FF Vs FG was not my point.
Moreso to my point was exactly how much cash greedy guts is extracting from the dept ridden country with a huge smirk on his face while he continues to cripple the less well off.

With a move like this I can see them destroying any new car sales.

vectra

Gophur wrote: »

One. Why do you ask?

Are you sure about that?

creedp

meathstevie wrote: »

If you would have bought a 1.6 TDI Octavia anytime after 2008 your road tax would have been in the lowest bracket as well. You can't really be judging cars on the badge on the bonnet when they fulfill objective criteria for certain tax brackets.

Take the example of Skoda - virtually identical to Audi, Volkswagen and Seat, being branded and priced differently is just about the only difference between these brands so why should the owner of the A4 be treated differently than the owner of the Octavia ?

It could ge justified on the basis of the age old chestnut ... ability to pay ... in this case you assume that because the Audi is more expensive then the owner can afford to cough up a few more bob!! Not saying its appropriate but it will be sold that way.. Maybe medical card holders should be exempt from car tax, fule tax, vrt, etc on the same basis:)

sean1141

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I find this part interesting as it directly affects me. What I've been told and what I expect to see is the addition of a new tax band that takes in electric vehicles and super low emission vehicles.

I think it is fairly clear that government policy up until now has definitely encouraged people to buy lower emission vehicles. With the cost of fuel likely to continue rising, motor tax increases and now EV models from several car manufacturers; hopefully sales of electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids will start to pick up.

and when electric cars become more common do you think they wont tax the crap out of them too? they will find some way to get money out of them even if its not true motor tax or vrt

Cionád

vectra wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

I think he might technically be correct, because his other incomes are from outside government (teachers pension)

zenno

zenno wrote: »

I hope mitsubishi doesn't come into this scenario because my tax already went up and this will be the last straw if it goes up again as i can not pay it struggling like a fcuker as it is. fcuking vampires sucking us dry.

It won't be a brand thing so Mitsubishi models will most definitely "come into this"

darokane wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the complaints about the government i see these days, ye are the ones who voted them in, when has a fine gael/labour coalition ever done good for this country?

I think the change in motor tax alluded to in the article was expected and also necessary, fair play to them for tackling it imo. Much better idea than adding more onto the universal social charge or increasing direct taxation. If remove the current system of a €45,000+ 520d being the same to tax as a €15,000 Megane I reckon it's a job well done.

vectra wrote: »

How many incomes exactly does Enda take from being in Government??
Greedy Pr!ck

Can't see what that has to do with the motor tax rates, his salary is an awful lot less than the €320,000 Bertie Ahern reckoned he should have been on.

vectra wrote: »

.................

With a move like this I can see them destroying any new car sales.

New car sales are up sh1ts creek anyway, if the motor tax rate is a huge factor in folks buying a new car than perhaps they shouldn't be buying a new car.


A reform of the motor tax rates has been mentioned several times, it can come as a surprise to no one really.

gbee

I'm delighted with this move, it was a stupid decision anyway initially, almost free driving for some.

It's good to see that the take up of incentives was not followed through and that the emissions will now be only part of the assessment process.

Everyone should pay a minimum of road tax, and now too cyclists for using the new cycle lanes and so forth, then additional tax for the vehicle and or usage thereof.