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France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

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    #392
    Big Nelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,613 ✭✭✭Big Nelly


    27 pages and game hasn't started????

    Do you not know it is the most predictable game in history with the most predictable manager in World Rugby!!!!!


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    #393
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    Big Nelly wrote: »
    27 pages and game hasn't started????

    Do you not know it is the most predictable game in history with the most predictable manager in World Rugby!!!!!

    i predict an Ireland win :)


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    #394
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    duckysauce wrote: »
    i predict an Ireland win :)

    I predict you will be proven wrong :p


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    #395
    MickySticks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭MickySticks


    Big Nelly wrote: »
    27 pages and game hasn't started????

    Do you not know it is the most predictable game in history with the most predictable manager in World Rugby!!!!!
    Did you predict a 9 point win over Australia in the World Cup last year?


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    #396
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    JRant wrote: »
    Well you see there's a wee hole in your theory and its that he doesn't infer anything, he states they are better and then says he'd have POM. A Why, How, Where and When would have been nice from him but nothing. Just states one fact while contradicting it with the next.
    For the record Dom Ryan is in IMHO a far superior 7 than POM, who is definetly more of a 6/8. But sure don't let the facts get in the way of a good aul speil.


    The "why" he'd have POM over the other is because he thinks that POM has "technical ability, right attitude & a brain"

    the "how, where & when" = by playing him there, at 7 and now (instead of O'Brien).

    none of this is fact, its all opinion (yours & tolands).


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    #397
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    "Technical ability" could not be more vague.

    As for attitude, is that implying there's something wrong with SOB's attitude?


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    #398
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Thing is, the only things POM is missing are size and technical ability!


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    #399
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    danthefan wrote: »

    As for attitude, is that implying there's something wrong with SOB's attitude?

    Don't think so. Its praise for one person. Not criticism of another.


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    #400
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    danthefan wrote: »
    "Technical ability" could not be more vague.

    As for attitude, is that implying there's something wrong with SOB's attitude?

    No, just different attitude to the position.

    technical ability could be that he is good at turning over ball whereas sob is good at carrying.

    do you think sob is doing justice to himself playing at 7.


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    #401
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Thing is, the only things POM is missing are size and technical ability!


    sam warburton= 6'2" 16st 10 lbs

    peter o'm = 6'3" 16 st 7 lbs


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    #402
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Thing is, the only things POM is missing are size and technical ability!


    sam warburton= 6'2" 16st 10 lbs

    peter o'm = 6'3" 16 st 7 lbs
    Are you serious?


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    #403
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    well, thats what the irfu website says and i presume they are serious.


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    #404
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    well, thats what the irfu website says and i presume they are serious.
    No, I cannot believe you could miss the point by that much.

    Do you think POM is as well conditioned as Sam Warburton then? Haha


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    #405
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No, I cannot believe you could miss the point by that much.

    Do you think POM is as well conditioned as Sam Warburton then? Haha

    so there is nothing wrong with his size, just his conditioning. is that what you are saying?


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    #406
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    jm08 wrote: »
    so there is nothing wrong with his size, just his conditioning. is that what you are saying?

    Yeah that's what he is saying. Haha


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    #407
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No, I cannot believe you could miss the point by that much.

    Do you think POM is as well conditioned as Sam Warburton then? Haha

    so there is nothing wrong with his size, just his conditioning. is that what you are saying?
    By size I mean general physicality and strength, which is a weakness of his that will improve with more time as a full pro. Core strength, lower body strength. The sort of thing that young back rows always take time to build up. The reason he is getting removed from strong breakdown positions for Munster too much. Heaslip was the same, Dom Ryan is only getting there now. Just as, if not more important than, technical ability. At test level it is even more exposed.

    Size is generally accepted as the generalisation for all this. I find people on here generally understand things like this.

    I'm a massive fan of POM as I've said many times, but he's not the complete article yet.


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    #408
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    POM is a fantastic athlete. He has a great engine and the power to burst through tackles. He has been turning over ball all season and thats when playing at 6.

    I'm surprised theres so many people doubting him after the season hes had.


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    #409
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    jm08 wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    Well you see there's a wee hole in your theory and its that he doesn't infer anything, he states they are better and then says he'd have POM. A Why, How, Where and When would have been nice from him but nothing. Just states one fact while contradicting it with the next.
    For the record Dom Ryan is in IMHO a far superior 7 than POM, who is definetly more of a 6/8. But sure don't let the facts get in the way of a good aul speil.


    The "why" he'd have POM over the other is because he thinks that POM has "technical ability, right attitude & a brain"

    the "how, where & when" = by playing him there, at 7 and now (instead of O'Brien).

    none of this is fact, its all opinion (yours & tolands).

    Having only played 3 games at 7 so far how does he have the "technical ability and brain" to play there?
    It's a bit rich to say he'd drop SOB while our backrow is functioning pretty well and then say Murray has to start despite playing like a drain last week.
    Your right it is only my opinion but I like to make my mind up based on facts. :)

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #410
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    By size I mean general physicality and strength, which is a weakness of his that will improve with more time as a full pro. Core strength, lower body strength. The sort of thing that young back rows always take time to build up. The reason he is getting removed from strong breakdown positions for Munster too much. Heaslip was the same, Dom Ryan is only getting there now. Just as, if not more important than, technical ability. At test level it is even more exposed.

    Size is generally accepted as the generalisation for all this. I find people on here generally understand things like this.

    I'm a massive fan of POM as I've said many times, but he's not the complete article yet.

    so you reckon he doesn't have the physicality to play internat. rugby (at 6 or 8) now or just at openside?

    just looked up dom ryan and he is a stone lighter than omahoney (same height). size is a completely different thing to physicality and conditioning. ha ha.


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    #411
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    By size I mean general physicality and strength, which is a weakness of his that will improve with more time as a full pro. Core strength, lower body strength. The sort of thing that young back rows always take time to build up. The reason he is getting removed from strong breakdown positions for Munster too much. Heaslip was the same, Dom Ryan is only getting there now. Just as, if not more important than, technical ability. At test level it is even more exposed.

    Size is generally accepted as the generalisation for all this. I find people on here generally understand things like this.

    I'm a massive fan of POM as I've said many times, but he's not the complete article yet.

    so you reckon he doesn't have the physicality to play internat. rugby (at 6 or 8) now or just at openside?

    just looked up dom ryan and he is a stone lighter than omahoney (same height). size is a completely different thing to physicality and conditioning. ha ha.
    I'm taller than ODriscoll, I'm heavier than him. Good to know I'm more powerful than him!

    I don't think you quite understand rugby S&C. I'll leave it there so.


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    #412
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    profitius wrote: »
    POM is a fantastic athlete. He has a great engine and the power to burst through tackles. He has been turning over ball all season and thats when playing at 6.

    I'm surprised theres so many people doubting him after the season hes had.

    From my own perspective it's the notion that he's some sort of panacea for the backrow. I'm sure he's all of those things you've described but there are other players who've put the performances in over a longer time scale and can't get near the team.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #413
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I'm taller than ODriscoll, I'm heavier than him. Good to know I'm more powerful than him!

    I don't think you quite understand rugby S&C. I'll leave it there so.

    what are you on about now.

    devin toner is a big size wise (both height & weight) but was lacking in physicality and conditioning - think he conditioning has improved a lot this year.

    size is not the same as physicality or conditioning. if it were, those words would not exist.


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    #414
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    profitius wrote: »
    POM is a fantastic athlete. He has a great engine and the power to burst through tackles. He has been turning over ball all season and thats when playing at 6.

    I'm surprised theres so many people doubting him after the season hes had.

    Nobody doubts him or his talent. It's the logic for saying he is the best choice at 7 that is being questioned.


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    #415
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    JRant wrote: »
    Having only played 3 games at 7 so far how does he have the "technical ability and brain" to play there?
    It's a bit rich to say he'd drop SOB while our backrow is functioning pretty well and then say Murray has to start despite playing like a drain last week.
    Your right it is only my opinion but I like to make my mind up based on facts. :)

    you see it in some players - you know they are going to be a bit special. toland reckons omahoney is going to be a world class player. you might find that difficult to understand as you can only deal with fact.

    and the backrow is not functioning well considering the 3 great players that are there.


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    #416
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I'm taller than ODriscoll, I'm heavier than him. Good to know I'm more powerful than him!

    I don't think you quite understand rugby S&C. I'll leave it there so.

    what are you on about now.

    devin toner is a big size wise (both height & weight) but was lacking in physicality and conditioning - think he conditioning has improved a lot this year.

    size is not the same as physicality or conditioning. if it were, those words would not exist.
    Devin Toner is the same height and weight as 2 years ago. He is far stronger now than then. He cannot put on weight, but he is getting stronger and stronger. This is what happens with years working in a pro rugby setup and its what POM is missing right now.

    I'm aware its not the same, but size/strength and all terms that fall under that physical umbrella are quite interchangeable when talking about rugby. I find it hard to believe you've never encountered that.

    You are either being pedantic or just not understanding the point I'm making about POM. Either way, that is why SOB is a better 7 than him right now.



    Also I actually think POM could well be a better bench option than SOB.


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    #417
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    totallegend wrote: »
    Nobody doubts him or his talent. It's the logic for saying he is the best choice at 7 that is being questioned.

    needs must. david wallace would probably have been a much better No. 8 (or blindside), but he played openside because the rest available were just not good enough . Jennings, while being good at club level just doesn't have it at international level.


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    #418
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Devin Toner is the same height and weight as 2 years ago. He is far stronger now than then. He cannot put on weight, but he is getting stronger and stronger. This is what happens with years working in a pro rugby setup and its what POM is missing right now.

    I'm aware its not the same, but size/strength and all terms that fall under that physical umbrella are quite interchangeable when talking about rugby. I find it hard to believe you've never encountered that.

    You are either being pedantic or just not understanding the point I'm making about POM. Either way, that is why SOB is a better 7 than him right now.

    Also I actually think POM could well be a better bench option than SOB.

    I'm just surprised that a rugby guru like you wouldn't use the word physiciality or strength & conditioning. I've never heard of a 'size' coach.
    The word 'physicality/conditioning' is fairly mainstream to specifically describe what has happened to devin toner (differentiating size) .
    so lets leave it at that .


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    #419
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭andyman


    jm08 wrote: »
    needs must. david wallace would probably have been a much better No. 8 (or blindside), but he played openside because the rest available were just not good enough . Jennings, while being good at club level just doesn't have it at international level.

    Yeah, because he got a chance to prove otherwise in all of those opportunities that he got.


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    #420
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    I don't understand what exactly is being argued, SOB is a better player right now than POM, and has had plenty of excellent games at 7.

    Does nobody else see the flaw in starting POM for the first time away v France, while at the same time dropping the European player of the year?

    Start POM v Scotland and put SOB at 8.


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    #421
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I don't understand what exactly is being argued, SOB is a better player right now than POM, and has had plenty of excellent games at 7.

    Does nobody else see the flaw in starting POM for the first time away v France, while at the same time dropping the European player of the year?

    Start POM v Scotland and put SOB at 8.

    i wouldn't have started him against france either- too much of an ask, but he does need to be tried out and scotland would be a good one for him.


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