France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

andyman

Tox56 wrote: »

I don't understand what exactly is being argued, SOB is a better player right now than POM, and has had plenty of excellent games at 7.

Does nobody else see the flaw in starting POM for the first time away v France, while at the same time dropping the European player of the year?

Start POM v Scotland and put SOB at 8.

And drop our best back-rower at the breakdown this season?

ironingbored

JRant wrote: »

Having only played 3 games at 7 so far how does he have the "technical ability and brain" to play there?
It's a bit rich to say he'd drop SOB while our backrow is functioning pretty well and then say Murray has to start despite playing like a drain last week.
Your right it is only my opinion but I like to make my mind up based on facts.

This ^^

What really gets my goat is the double standard.

Murray (objectively) has a mare and his opposite number plays a blinder when he comes on, but Murray should still start in Paris.

SOB at 7 is effective while not at his barnstorming best needs to be replaced by an untried player at international level (despite a very good first season as first choice for his province).

What is it?

Same for Donnacha Ryan, by far the most ridiculous selection decision I can remember. Even the rest of the squad must be asking themselves how DOC can be selected before him nevermind in the squad with the dynamism Tuohy brings. And all this s**** about his scrummaging and his "unseen" work is just bollix tbh.

Rant over.

irishbucsfan

andyman wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

I don't understand what exactly is being argued, SOB is a better player right now than POM, and has had plenty of excellent games at 7.

Does nobody else see the flaw in starting POM for the first time away v France, while at the same time dropping the European player of the year?

Start POM v Scotland and put SOB at 8.

And drop our best back-rower at the breakdown this season?

Id prefer to see a straight swap as well, POM for SOB

Fireball07

ironingbored wrote: »

This ^^

What really gets my goat is the double standard.

Murray (objectively) has a mare and his opposite number plays a blinder when he comes on, but Murray should still start in Paris.

SOB at 7 is effective while not at his barnstorming best needs to be replaced by an untried player at international level (despite a very good first season as first choice for his province).

What is it?

Same for Donnacha Ryan, by far the most ridiculous selection decision I can remember. Even the rest of the squad must be asking themselves how DOC can be selected before him nevermind in the squad with the dynamism Tuohy brings. And all this s**** about his scrummaging and his "unseen" work is just bollix tbh.

Rant over.

But who are the double standards from? Everyone on here who says they want POM to play against Scotland has said they think Reddan and Ryan should start against France, with Tuohy on the bench.

Tox56

andyman wrote: »

And drop our best back-rower at the breakdown this season?

Drop or rest? 4 internationals in a row is a lot for anyone.

danthefan

Tox56 wrote: »

Drop or rest? 4 internationals in a row is a lot for anyone.

Semantics :rolleyes:

He wouldn't be on the pitch. Whether he's dropped, rested, gone AWOL, on holiday in Ibiza, it doesn't matter a toss.

Tox56

Fireball07 wrote: »

But who are the double standards from? Everyone on here who says they want POM to play against Scotland has said they think Reddan and Ryan should start against France, with Tuohy on the bench.

Reddan and Ryan are replacing DOC(I need not say anymore) and Murray (who is being thrown in the deep-end too soon imo), whereas POM is relplacing the European Player of the Year.

ironingbored

Fireball07 wrote: »

But who are the double standards from? Everyone on here who says they want POM to play against Scotland has said they think Reddan and Ryan should start against France, with Tuohy on the bench.

Kidney and the pundits.

Boardsies are much more on the ball.

Tox56

danthefan wrote: »

Semantics :rolleyes:

He wouldn't be on the pitch. Whether he's dropped, rested, gone AWOL, on holiday in Ibiza, it doesn't matter a toss.

I think you've mis-interpreted my post. I didn't want Heaslip to play so he could be rested, not because he isn't playing well. I wanted SOB to play to help re-discover some form (of course a lot depends on what actually happens in France), and POM to play to get the experience.

Heaslip is playing some of the best rugby of all our players, do we want him playing 4 internationals in a row? Personal opinion I guess.

jm08

ironingbored wrote: »

Kidney and the pundits.

Boardsies are much more on the ball.

tuohy is no brad thorn (even if he is the same height (not size ) as thorn is). no way would he be able to compete in the lineout against the scots.

apart from anything else, from what i've read tuohy was poor enough in the wolfhounds game.

Fireball07

Tox56 wrote: »

Reddan and Ryan are replacing DOC(I need not say anymore) and Murray (who is being thrown in the deep-end too soon imo), whereas POM is relplacing the European Player of the Year.

True but the European Player of the Year isn't playing to the top of his game. I think everyone knows our 3 starting back-rowers are a good bit ahead of the rest of the pack (bar Wallace pre-injury) but it's just giving someone like POM gametime in an international so that if there is an injury and we do have to call on him to be a regular starter, that he won't be thrown in the deep end.

I wouldn't mind doing it in the backs too. Let Kearney or someone play along with Bowe/Trimble.

ironingbored wrote: »

Kidney and the pundits.

Boardsies are much more on the ball.

Tbf Kidney hasn't actually started POM ahead of SOB so the double standards don't really apply.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

tuohy is no brad thorn (even if he is the same height (not size ) as thorn is). no way would he be able to compete in the lineout against the scots.

apart from anything else, from what i've read tuohy was poor enough in the wolfhounds game.

Lol

ironingbored

jm08 wrote: »

tuohy is no brad thorn (even if he is the same height (not size ) as thorn is). no way would he be able to compete in the lineout against the scots.

apart from anything else, from what i've read tuohy was poor enough in the wolfhounds game.

But has he or has he not merited game time on a par with POM?

I'd have no problem with Kiddinme (once the Wales game was lost) blooding young players in Italy and Scotland games.

danthefan

ironingbored wrote: »

But has he or has he not merited game time on a par with POM?

I'd have no problem with Kiddinme (once the Wales game was lost) blooding young players in Italy and Scotland games.

The Italy game was the absolute perfect time to do it really. Opportunity missed.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

tuohy is no brad thorn (even if he is the same height (not size ) as thorn is). no way would he be able to compete in the lineout against the scots.

apart from anything else, from what i've read tuohy was poor enough in the wolfhounds game.

I've read, from you actually, a proposal to start D Ryan at 8

Reason enough to not take what you read here to seriously

jm08

ironingbored wrote: »

But has he or has he not merited game time on a par with POM?

I'd have no problem with Kiddinme (once the Wales game was lost) blooding young players in Italy and Scotland games.

dont think its got anything to do with meriting it - shane jennings probably merits game time over pom, but in the long run that would be a waste of time.

poc is carrying a heavy load at the moment, between captaining the team and no bod . probably not a good time to start introducing a new partner as well, considering the other options are not that poor .

jm08

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I've read, from you actually, a proposal to start D Ryan at 8

Reason enough to not take what you read here to seriously

what are you on about? dryan is a lock

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

Drop or rest? 4 internationals in a row is a lot for anyone.

I think people are making too much of the 4 internationals in a row bit. I don't think it'll take that much of a toll on these guys that we need to be resting players specifically because of it. These guys just had 2 weeks off.

If anyone needs to be rested it would be Ferris anyway.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

what are you on about? dryan is a lock

maybe it was someone else so. Point still stands anyway

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think people are making too much of the 4 internationals in a row bit. I don't think it'll take that much of a toll on these guys that we need to be resting players specifically because of it. These guys just had 2 weeks off.

If anyone needs to be rested it would be Ferris anyway.

Well, the rest weeks do exist for a reason, although the main purpose of it was I wanted to give POM a go, although resting Ferris and SOB at 6 with POM at 7 achieves the same result. A lot depends on what happens in Paris of course, if we are out of the tournament, I would hope Scotland is a game used for at least some experimentation.

Tox56

Fishooks12 wrote: »

maybe it was someone else so. Point still stands anyway

The part that baffled me was just that Tuohy did have a very good game for the Wolfhounds in my opinion, at least better than DOC has shown.

jm08

Fishooks12 wrote: »

maybe it was someone else so. Point still stands anyway

lets hope you don't mix up what players do like you mix up who posts what

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

The part that baffled me was just that Tuohy did have a very good game for the Wolfhounds in my opinion, at least better than DOC has shown.

Tuohy was hugely destructive again for Ulster last night. I would have him ahead of DOC, but not Ryan. But unfortunately he doesn't play for the right province so it's very unlikely that will happen.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Tuohy was hugely destructive again for Ulster last night. I would have him ahead of DOC, but not Ryan. But unfortunately he doesn't play for the right province so it's very unlikely that will happen.

Saw that too, bumped off 2 people in a row, handed off a third, before throwing an offload to nobody, unfortunately.

Still showcased why he should be in the squad.

Ardillaun

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think people are making too much of the 4 internationals in a row bit. I don't think it'll take that much of a toll on these guys that we need to be resting players specifically because of it. These guys just had 2 weeks off.

If anyone needs to be rested it would be Ferris anyway.

Healy seems to take a bad knock in every game these days. He looks like he needs a break more than anybody.

shuffol

Tox56 wrote: »

Saw that too, bumped off 2 people in a row, handed off a third, before throwing an offload to nobody, unfortunately.

Still showcased why he should be in the squad.

He'd 2 people outside him, both decided to come in because they didnt anticipate the offload, at least one of them should've stayed on the outside, it was a fantastic mix of skill and brute force that is beyond the capabilities of any other 2nd row in the country. We've one of the form 2nd rows in Europe, a tremendous asset that can do things that no other 2nd row we have can do and we decide to ignore him and why? Because as Kidney would say "ah sure ye know like Donnacha, sure like he hasnt done anything wrong ye know, sure how can ye drop a man who hasnt done anything wrong like"

When you've a coach who's more concerned with upsetting senior players than putting the best 15 on the pitch its going to diminish your chances of success.

Big Nelly

MickySticks wrote: »

Did you predict a 9 point win over Australia in the World Cup last year?

I predicted a win after they lost some of there best players before kick off...if Pocock was on it would have been different story

jm08

shuffol wrote: »

He'd 2 people outside him, both decided to come in because they didnt anticipate the offload, at least one of them should've stayed on the outside, it was a fantastic mix of skill and brute force that is beyond the capabilities of any other 2nd row in the country. We've one of the form 2nd rows in Europe, a tremendous asset that can do things that no other 2nd row we have can do and we decide to ignore him and why? Because as Kidney would say "ah sure ye know like Donnacha, sure like he hasnt done anything wrong ye know, sure how can ye drop a man who hasnt done anything wrong like"

When you've a coach who's more concerned with upsetting senior players than putting the best 15 on the pitch its going to diminish your chances of success.

think ireland has ball carriers coming out their ears for ireland. how is tuohy in the core skill of the lineout . any good in a defensive lineout? richie grey has about 5/6 inches on him. lol.

tuohy was injured last year for the world cup preparation so he'd be starting from scrath learning calls and he'd have a week to do it for the 6ns. as i said poc has enough to do without having to deal with a new partner. tuohy aint that special.

and people wonder why ryan or nagle don't want to leave munster lol. maybe its just they don't want to leave the club where poc plays ?

Madworld

jm08 wrote: »

think ireland has ball carriers coming out their ears for ireland. how is tuohy in the core skill of the lineout . any good in a defensive lineout? richie grey has about 5/6 inches on him. lol.

tuohy was injured last year for the world cup preparation so he'd be starting from scrath learning calls and he'd have a week to do it for the 6ns. as i said poc has enough to do without having to deal with a new partner. tuohy aint that special.

and people wonder why ryan or nagle don't want to leave munster lol. maybe its just they don't want to leave the club where poc plays ?

You don't happen to support Munster by any chance?

irishbucsfan

DOC is a poor defensive lineout option and is 6 inches shorter than Gray. But Tuohy obviously doesn't have a "bit of dog" in him, nor is he one of the lads, nor can he do a job, nor is he honest. Or any of those other intangibles.

What Tuohy excels in as a rugby player, he more than loses out in being from somewhere other than Munster.

If we want a defensive lineout player, pick Toner. If we want a work horse, pick McCarthy, if we want a ball carrier, pick Tuohy. If we want the best blend of all those things pick Ryan.