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Secret Diary of a Dublin Call Girl

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Comments

  • #362
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    hey der, I'm an angry man hating lesbot and I are in need of funds to buy new laptop so I can be more pro active. Tanks.


  • #363
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    Babybuff wrote: »
    hey der, I'm an angry man hating lesbot and I are in need of funds to buy new laptop so I can be more pro active. Tanks.

    The VERY THING...someone in a position to test Neuro-Praxis offer without risking *my* identity.

    :D

    (I have to say that was one of the fastest, funniest, and most genuinely harmless ripostes I have seen in years - I nearly choked!)


  • #364
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    ah neuro is a lady. ;)


    cash /cheques to be made out to babybuff and sent to po box 54367


  • #365
    ShiftStorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭ShiftStorm


    Eileen_Lang, I simply cannot follow your thoughts. Can you sum up your position in one sentence?

    I think that NeuroPraxis, far from trying to play a 'mental cat and mouse game' with you, is trying to make sense of what you are saying for the benefit of herself and the many readers who are baffled by you!


  • #366
    ShiftStorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭ShiftStorm


    (My reply was too slow! Sorry)


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  • #367
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    byrned17 wrote: »
    Eileen_Lang, I simply cannot follow your thoughts. Can you sum up your position in one sentence?

    I think that NeuroPraxis, far from trying to play a 'mental cat and mouse game' with you, is trying to make sense of what you are saying for the benefit of herself and the many readers who are baffled by you!

    Certainly, my position on that is that I see no reason whatsoever to agree with you.

    Was that simple enough?


  • #368
    ShiftStorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭ShiftStorm


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    Certainly, my position on that is that I see no reason whatsoever to agree with you.

    Was that simple enough?

    Ouch.


  • #369
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    Babybuff wrote: »
    ah neuro is a lady. ;)


    cash /cheques to be made out to babybuff and sent to po box 54367

    :D:D:D

    (Can you not take paypal?)


  • #370
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    byrned17 wrote: »
    Ouch.

    I think the principle of "be careful what you ask for" applies here?

    But that being said, if you have any questions of your own you would like to ask for clarity, in your own words (the "cat and mouse" semantics are just a fast track to a senseless circular argument and somebody has to cry "halt" on that) I am happy to try and answer them.

    :)


  • #371
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    No it certainly is not and I have made that clear.

    That is a ridiculous misrepresentation of everything I have said and not even worthy of discussion.

    But this is exactly what you're saying. You're saying that pimps are to be trusted financially by women in need. You're saying that your johns were mild-mannered men whose most exotic fetish was oral sex and who were appreciative and grateful afterwards.

    Now go to the "well know escorting website" and see how well this image stacks against the punters there - it doesn't. See how "appreciative" they are, see what array of services is now considered standard and how they react when they are denied some of them or are not serviced to their full expectation fuelled by online porn. And this is only those who are civil enough to express their dissatisfaction through rating the girl down online and acting connaisseur; makes you wonder how much is said and done face to face with a less "refined" punter.

    I wonder if you are glossing over your experience so much and for what reason; or is it a certain naivety resulting from the fact that your experience was in a different era so to speak (before online, before such easy access to certain types of porn, before mainstreaming and glamourisation, when for johns it was simpler and more shameful, which kept their demands at bay)? In which case your easy and nearly automatic dismissal of more current "survivor" accounts is even more baffling.


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  • #372
    ShiftStorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭ShiftStorm


    Ha, the way you say things in an obnoxious tone and then follow them with some lovely smilies as if they make a difference!

    Neuropraxis and others, thanks for your input. Some real food for thought here.


  • #373
    neuro-praxis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭neuro-praxis


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    Your offer is of no real worth to me, because your attitude and incomprehension is an insurmountable barrier to you ever having the slightest understanding of what I need to flourish, or what resources would be of real assistance, to me, and, unfortunately, the wrong help tends to do more harm than no help at all.

    I would however, explore what you mean further, and at least thank you, if I were not convinced by your consistent hostility, that it is more of a ruse aimed at getting inside my head and persuading me to place my private identity at your mercy...oh yes, and the minor detail that I am not, at this time, in any desperate need. :D

    The irony of me being accused of hostility by you is hopefully not lost on you. You are intensely hostile.

    I've done my level best to understand your position. I have offered to help. The reason I use the word flourishing is because every individual requires different kinds of supports in order to flourish. I would never pretend to know what you needed.

    And I couldn't give a crap about knowing or revealing your identity. What difference would it make to me? I'm not a journalist or a lobbyist of any kind. I'm a private citizen and all I am interested in is seeing women who view prostitution as their only way out, given other options. My husband and I make a point of giving people a dig-out, as we've been given ourselves on several occasions. Only this morning a house-guest moved out of our place after a month, having had nowhere else to stay these past weeks. I can see why you hate organisations that try to offer exit strategies to women. You cannot bear the idea of receiving help from anyone it seems, except punters. And that's not help, because you're servicing them. It's trade.

    The only person in this entire thread whose attitude is an insurmountable barrier to anything positive is very firmly you, Eileen.


  • #374
    sambuka41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭sambuka41


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    (the "cat and mouse" semantics are just a fast track to a senseless circular argument and somebody has to cry "halt" on that)

    In fact I think its the other way around, I think neuro-praxis is the one calling a halt to the circular arguments and pinning you down.
    neuro-praxis wrote: »
    Maybe I could sum up your position in a few lines:

    Prostitution, while not enjoyable, is ultimately a "good" that allows those who are destitute to live economically comfortable lives. The financial benefits of prostitution far outweigh any damage caused to the individual involved: far more damaging would be financial ruin. The punters are generally respectful of women, kind and harmless, therefore making the experience more bearable, and more importantly, they are the source of financial support, and should therefore not be challenged in any way, by anyone.

    That you hold this position leads me to a couple of conclusions.
    1. You are either still in the business personally, or you are a pimp or madam
    2. You are very hurt and damaged by your experience in the past and therefore feel a strong compulsion to justify it, sanitise it and make it appear respectable
    3. You are very ashamed of your involvement in prostitution but want to keep earning the money from it - it is something familiar that you know you can do. Therefore you anonymously campaign to keep it alive, perhaps out of love for your child?

    You have not shown compassion or empathy here for any actual avowed survivors; only ones you claim to know personally that cannot be verified, many of whom have links to spurious organisations.

    I just can't trust you - based on the version of yourself that you have presented. :(

    These are the exact conclusions I came to last night, I find Eileens comments about her experiences credible at times but her insistence in believing that these men are anything but the scum they really are, and placing no blame what so ever with them; sounds like someone who needs to convince themselves of that for one reason or another (survival, defence of a loved one who is involved??)


  • #375
    ShiftStorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭ShiftStorm


    neuro-praxis wrote: »
    The irony of me being accused of hostility by you is hopefully not lost on you. You are intensely hostile.

    I've done my level best to understand your position. I have offered to help. The reason I use the word flourishing is because every individual requires different kinds of supports in order to flourish. I would never pretend to know what you needed.

    And I couldn't give a crap about knowing or revealing your identity. What difference would it make to me? I'm not a journalist or a lobbyist of any kind. I'm a private citizen and all I am interested in is seeing women who view prostitution as their only way out, given other options. My husband and I make a point of giving people a dig-out, as we've been given ourselves on several occasions. Only this morning a house-guest moved out of our place after a month, having had nowhere else to stay these past weeks. I can see why you hate organisations that try to offer exit strategies to women. You cannot bear the idea of receiving help from anyone it seems, except punters. And that's not help, because you're servicing them. It's trade.

    The only person in this entire thread whose attitude is an insurmountable barrier to anything positive is very firmly you, Eileen.

    I wish I could 'thank you' for this if only I wasn't such a newbie!


  • #376
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    byrned17 wrote: »
    I wish I could 'thank you' for this if only I wasn't such a newbie!
    thanked for you. I'm always in awe of Neuropraxis ability to communicate her thoughts and feelings so succinctly


  • #377
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    Eileen, outside of your political agenda I'm still curious about your life, are you married, do you work now, do your kids know, have relationships been difficult for you..y'know, the human you.


  • #378
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,948 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    mhge wrote: »
    But this is exactly what you're saying. You're saying that pimps are to be trusted financially by women in need. You're saying that your johns were mild-mannered men whose most exotic fetish was oral sex and who were appreciative and grateful afterwards.

    Certainly her account so far in this thread has given me the impression that my office job is far more damaging to my emotional and physical self than the lucrative option of prostitution.

    But, y'know, I think I'll stick with the overbearing bosses, angry telephone callers and papercuts in exchange for a meagre salary that barely stretches from month to month.


  • #379
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    Babybuff wrote: »
    Eileen, outside of your political agenda I'm still curious about your life, are you married, do you work now, do your kids know, have relationships been difficult for you..y'know, the human you.

    Why not read "hooker.pdf" on my site if you are genuinely interested?

    Apart from that...all family members "know", I have no partner and no intention of one, and no, there has never been anything even close to a "happy ending" for me, I am resigned to the fact that there never can be...but to me that is just the way the cookie crumbled.


  • #380
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    Babybuff wrote: »
    thanked for you. I'm always in awe of Neuropraxis ability to communicate her thoughts and feelings so succinctly

    You actually have a far greater ability yourself if you only had the confidence to see it and use it...


  • #381
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    Why not read "hooker.pdf" on my site if you are genuinely interested?

    Apart from that...all family members "know", I have no partner and no intention of one, and no, there has never been anything even close to a "happy ending" for me, I am resigned to the fact that there never can be...but to me that is just the way the cookie crumbled.
    sorry, think I tried when you first arrived and the link wasn't working, will check it out again.
    Have a good rest of the day.

    edit:thanks

    edit:link still not working :(


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  • #382
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    Neyite wrote: »
    Certainly her account so far in this thread has given me the impression that my office job is far more damaging to my emotional and physical self than the lucrative option of prostitution.

    That would seem to be exactly the way a lot of the sex workers I have asked recently feel about it. I have to open my eyes that perhaps sex work is not emotionally damaging for some people at all, let alone in term relative to a damaging alternative.

    Nobody has the right to tell someone they "OUGHT" to be damaged if they are not.

    Neyite wrote: »
    But, y'know, I think I'll stick with the overbearing bosses, angry telephone callers and papercuts in exchange for a meagre salary that barely stretches from month to month.

    But surely the whole point is in whether it would be worth it to the individual person you are, in your individual circumstances?

    Sex workers are, for the most part, the people who thought about that and decided that, for them, it *WAS* worth it...for you, obviously, it would not be worth it, and I do not believe that your choice should be forced on them any more than their choice should be forced on you.


  • #383
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    Babybuff wrote: »
    sorry, think I tried when you first arrived and the link wasn't working, will check it out again.
    Have a good rest of the day.

    edit:thanks

    edit:link still not working :(

    I am not getting into "link-pimping" so I'll check that and pm you a working link.

    There is an actual server error so you should be able to get it later...sorry about that.

    Back up now...


  • #384
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Is it me or does Eileen_Lang have a very, very strange way of writing? I read one of her sentences, then have to read it again because the grammar and positioning is so strange, then I give up because I'm so annoyed!

    Is this on purpose to irritate everyone?


  • #385
    Emme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    I am getting fed up of this thread. At first it was an opportunity to give traumatised women in prostitution a voice, but this has continually been shouted down by Eileen Lang in her relentless crusade to defend prostitution.

    I find it sinister in the extreme. Regardless of what Eileen Lang says, I am convinced that she is working for the pro-prostitution agenda.


  • #386
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Perhaps you just have a different point of view than Eileen?

    There are sex workers who are pro prostitution, and labelling anyone who is pro prostitution in any form as either a pimp or madam, does you no services. Why not just accept you have a different viewpoint than her, instead of slinging mud, or criticising her syntax?


  • #387
    Maple
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Maple


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    Babybuff wrote: »
    hey der, I'm an angry man hating lesbot and I are in need of funds to buy new laptop so I can be more pro active. Tanks.

    The VERY THING...someone in a position to test Neuro-Praxis offer without risking *my* identity.

    :D

    (I have to say that was one of the fastest, funniest, and most genuinely harmless ripostes I have seen in years - I nearly choked!)
    Eileen, dial it back on the hostility. People are posting to try and gain an understanding of your position on this topic. From what I've seen, all you have consistently done on this thread is to try and shout down those who disagree with you. There is a lack of continuity in your posts.

    Your response to neuro here was completely unnecessary.

    Maple


  • #388
    Maple
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Maple


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Is it me or does Eileen_Lang have a very, very strange way of writing? I read one of her sentences, then have to read it again because the grammar and positioning is so strange, then I give up because I'm so annoyed!

    Is this on purpose to irritate everyone?
    I appreciate the point you're trying to make here but it is of no relevance to the thread.

    Maple


  • #389
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Emme wrote: »
    I am getting fed up of this thread. At first it was an opportunity to give traumatised women in prostitution a voice, but this has continually been shouted down by Eileen Lang in her relentless crusade to defend prostitution.

    I find it sinister in the extreme. Regardless of what Eileen Lang says, I am convinced that she is working for the pro-prostitution agenda.

    Agreed, and I find it telling that she cannot answer/avoids a simple yes or no question relating to her knowledge of the identity of DCG.


  • #390
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    yekahS wrote: »
    Perhaps you just have a different point of view than Eileen?

    There are sex workers who are pro prostitution, and labelling anyone who is pro prostitution in any form as either a pimp or madam, does you no services. Why not just accept you have a different viewpoint than her, instead of slinging mud, or criticising her syntax?

    I really need to ask for a real definition of this term "pro-prostitution" that is being thrown around. I would have just assumed that a choosing to be a sex worker at all would make you "pro-prostitution" by definition...

    To me there are abolitionist organisations like Ruhama and Turn of the Red Light that are "anti-prostitution" and there are people like me who want to see sex workers supported, destigmatised and some form of legalisation/decriminalisation...is that what people mean by "pro-prostitution"?

    Because if so, of course I am. But I am not and never have been a pimp, and I haven't been a sex worker for a long time...I just understand the issues and care about the outcome from the point of view of sex workers who are not well placed to speak for themselves just because if the stigma and risk of exposure.

    With that in mind I have even shifted everything I say away from my own subjective attitudes and feelings towards the way sex workers tell me they feel...because, at the end of the day, whatever I say now should be about them, not me.

    This reminds me of the days before the 1993 act also legalised homosexuality...when the organisations against legalisation whipped people up to oppose it by creating an irrational mindset where people reacted as though homosexuality were to be made compulsory rather than legal!!

    I see the same mindset being developed about prostitution now with a cynical disregard for reality.


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  • #391
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    yekahS wrote: »
    Perhaps you just have a different point of view than Eileen?

    There are sex workers who are pro prostitution, and labelling anyone who is pro prostitution in any form as either a pimp or madam, does you no services. Why not just accept you have a different viewpoint than her, instead of slinging mud, or criticising her syntax?

    Being pro-prostitution (as in "elective sex workers") is one thing, I might be in this camp myself; but Eileen campaigns primarily for prostitution as solution for women already vulnerable, abused, addicted and in this way (in her own words) saving themselves from death. Also her portrayal of punters and pimps is so idealistic and her putting down of other survivors accounts so consistent that you can't help asking what exactly is her agenda.


This discussion has been closed.
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