Would you prefer if there was a god?

robindch wrote: »

So you sit on, say, the left hand of Euthyphro, in that something is only "good" because you believe that the full and total knowledge of "good" can be completely and reliably inferred from your own very personal interpretation of the religious texts you have chosen to assert are inerrant.

Can you see why some people might think this is hopelessly subjective?

It's not subjective at all, if the universe is under God's authority, His word is final, our word is fleeting. If we are to accept that God created the world and ultimately knows how best to live in it, we accept His word and live by it. If we don't, we aim hopelessly to live for ourselves and ultimately will be judged for it at the end of time as far as Christianity is concerned.

As much as I liked studying Plato, I feel the dilemma is essentially nonsensical. I believe that good and evil aren't independent from God, they are decreed by Him because He knows what is best for us.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Honestly, I couldn't care less if you laugh. Funnily enough, it fulfills what the Biblical text says about how many will regard God's word.

MUSEIST wrote: »

But what happens when peoples morals and common sense differ from Gods supposed word, do you still follow gods will even if its in conflict with natural human morals and if this happens then god only intervenes in those who he/she/it deems to have done 'good'.

So according to what you said then 'good' as god sees it can be different to 'good' as humans see it. This is the fundamental problem with religion, it gives otherwise decent people a cognitive dissonance to do what most would describe as immoral.

If peoples "morals" and "common sense" differ from God, they are ultimately wrong as God is the objective source of both morality and truth as far as Christians are concerned.

Ultimately, if we are all going to come before Jesus at the end of time (as the Biblical text says we will) to give an account to Him. Ultimately what we think is irrelevant, what will be relevant is what is really right and what is really wrong. Just because we might believe that we are right doesn't mean that that is necessarily so.

Ultimately - it will be simply arguing against the judge who has given His verdict. Unless, that is we accept that God is right, and repent and put our trust in Jesus - the only way to salvation. Good works or anything else are futile. The problem is that we've all sinned, and we've all broken God's standards. We're guilty of that much and deserve to be punished justly. God has offered us forgiveness through Jesus' death and resurrection. If we reject this, then we reject forgiveness.

barfizz wrote: »

But what happens when your God contradicts him/herself?
There are many examples of this in the bible, how do you solve the dilemma?

I don't necessarily agree that God does. Most of the time when non-believers have presented a so-called contradiction, it's usually quite easy to resolve. On the Christianity forum, we've had non-believers present alleged contradictions time and time again, but I haven't encountered one for which there hasn't been an explanation given.

If you're serious about discussing some of these I'd encourage you to post them on this thread, so that you can have a number of Christians respond to you rather than me alone.

Also I'm not telling you that. I'm telling you, that in the life of a Christian, God brings about good works if one sincerely believes in Him.

As for bad things. They will inevitably happen as a result of mans selfishness and sin. In fact God tells Christians that they are to expect suffering in this life as a result of belief in Jesus. 1 Peter in the New Testament makes that clear, as does Jesus. Suffering will happen no matter what you believe in. Suffering won't go away if you believe in Christianity, in fact it may intensify as the world can be hostile towards Christ. In Islamic Iran, or atheistic North Korea you could lose your life for being a Christian. Luckily, we have relative freedom in the West for a time, but nobody knows what the future could hold.

It seems you've misunderstood what I've said.

barfizz wrote: »

If we were to start a thread on each contradiction in the bible I believe that we will both waste too much of our time. The reality is that they exist and are well documented.

My question is as simple as your previous answer, how do you reconcile when your god contracts them self?

My answer is that I don't believe that God contradicts Himself at all. I've not seen an example which hasn't been refuted in the last 5 years since I decided to follow Christianity for myself.

As I say, feel free to post on the thread I linked and I and others will be happy to look at them.

barfizz wrote: »

You can do better than that.

You'd prefer if I would lie to you about my beliefs rather than tell you the truth? Interesting position.

Post your 'contradictions' over on the Atheist / Christian Debate thread on the Christianity forum and I'll be happy to deal with them.

Mark and oldrnwisr: I've taken a look at your passages on this thread on the Christianity forum, you're welcome to contribute more and I'll be happy to look at more (preferrably if you look them up yourself rather than googling, because I won't waste my time going through long lists at once I want productive discussion with you).

robindch wrote: »

You believe that god instructed men to write a book. What they wrote may not be exactly what the deity intended. The text was translated by people who adhered to a specific interpretation and in any case, the translation is obviously different from what was written by the original authors. You have read the text and you have interpreted it and your interpretation is highly unlikely to be the same as how the translators interpreted the original authors' interpretation of the message of the alleged deity.

So you're backing away from the Euthrypo dilemma now? This seems to be more about the authenticity of the Biblical text and whether or not it is God's word, a discussion I've had at length with others over yonder quite recently in this thread if you read through it you'll find the topic addressed in places.

Translations can be examined quite easily. Even by people who aren't the most familiar with Greek thanks to the trusty concordance. I'll challenge you to find me a translation of let's say Matthew chapter 5 that differs strongly from another in English. If you can, I'll be all ears. Until then I don't see how your claim can be evidenced.

As for interpretation, funnily you should say that, but in practice in terms of others in my church who are from different backgrounds, different countries, different societal outlooks and whole swathes of Christians of varying denominations I've agreed with them 95%+ of the time. There are tools at our disposal that we can use to look closer and closer at the text and these tools.

I count a minimum of three levels of interpretation: authors of deity; translators of authors; readers of translators. Quite apart from the utterly different social, religious, political, educational, scientific etc, etc, etc, spheres in which the readers, translators, authors exist/existed.

robindch wrote: »

This means that your interpretation, while possibly similar in places, is almost certainly different from the deity's original intent. Meaning that it certainly is subjective. The fact that there are 30,000-odd chrisitan sects around the place should suggest to you that differences in interpretation do matter and do produce subjectivity.

See above concerning when I've read the Bible with people of various Christian backgrounds.

robindch wrote: »

Having said that, I suspect you'll reply by saying that the essentials are the same which will ignore my point completely.You find it nonsensical because (a) you don't understand it and (b) you have taken a position on it, despite you not understanding the alternative or indeed, the point of it at all.

I find it humorous that you find that when I disagree with your point, it means clearly that I misunderstand it, but heck, I'm not going to lie about my position just to make you claim that I've understood it.

Feel free to post back though . I think you're wrong, that's not the same thing as misunderstanding.

A friend of mine is struggling with addiction and he doesn't want to go to a treatment program that's based on 12 steps but isn't going to cost a lot either.

I think life is complicated enough LOL I went in to check it out it's to complicated LOL

I'm guessing that it feels right, and is therefore logical.