Would you prefer if there was a god?

TeddyTedson

Obviously a lot of religious people believe in god because they want to believe in it.
But how do people who have made up their minds that a god doesn't exist feel about it.

If you could flick a switch and create a god, afterlife and everything that goes with it would you?

If someone close to you tragically dies or kills themselves, do or have you ever began to reassess your beliefs in a lack of god in the hope of meeting the person again.?

I'd just like to get some thoughts from people who have come to the conclusion that there is nothing after death.

kylith

On one hand, no. I think that the afterlife would be boring and full of awkward moments with people you don't really like.
On the other hand, yes. It would be good to have someone to complain to about all the design faults in the human body, the unfairness of wealth and food distribution, and the fact that really bad things often happen to good people.

excaliburhc

well it would lead to more then an afterlife wouldnt it ? i believe if there was it would lead to all life changing - perhaps for the better - perhaps not. we are an illogical species.

if there was a "god" then surely he/she/it would have to get involved in the day to day life of people - stop the massacres / starvation and such - can you imagine if there was a proven god and he/she/it did nothing . people with change from acceptance and love to hate and anger . -i.e why is he/she/it allowing this and so on .(in my opinion) .he/she/it will become the focal point for all the bad things that happen . fickle like that we are .

Dr. Loon

No. I wouldn't. The idea of an afterlife is, to me, hell. Eternity with people? No thanks. Sweet eternal sleep when it comes is just fine with me. I'll know nothing about it.

The idea of a god would be great, if that god sorted out the inherent evil in the world, and protected us from earthquakes, floods and so on. That'd be nice. I often wonder how the religious justify the problem of evil.

magicbastarder

what sort of a god? the christian god is already out.
it'd be like having a permanent parent.

nozzferrahhtoo

I think it has been asked a few times before. The answer I generally give is "No" because I think the idea of eternal life cheapens this one and makes a mockery of much of what we hold dear. Life is precious because it is rare and the only one you have. If you had another next one for all eternity, then this one would be relatively worthless.

Think of the sacrifice people have made when they have died for a Person or ideal. What do such sacrifices even mean in the face of eternal life? Not much.

Take the Jesus myth for example. We are told this guy made a huge sacrifice. But he simply exchanged a mortal temporary life for an eternal one of bliss and ruling in an eternal kingdom. How is that a sacrifice? It is an insult to all our intelligence to be told to worship this as a "sacrifice" by theists. Thankfully their intelligence more than ours.

Now had he been offered eternal life of bliss and role as eternal leader of that kingdom and chose the true death instead, then that might have been a fairy tale worth telling. That might have been a sacrifice.

Finally as Christopher Hitchens would have pointed out, we know what a life made up of nothing but worshiping the leader is like, we see it in North Korea and it sounds like hell to me. I have no interest in going to such a place where my only role in eternal life is to give praise and thanks to the eternal leader. Or Else.

b318isp

TeddyTedson wrote: »

If someone close to you tragically dies or kills themselves, do or have you ever began to reassess your beliefs in a lack of god in the hope of meeting the person again.?

The pain of missing them can be severe, especially if sudden and unexpected. The hope of seeing then again can be a (short term) coping mechanism.

In the last two years, I lost a friend to suicide and another friend lost his very beloved girlfriend to cancer. While it may be a nice thought to see them again, I believe it is a lot healthier to move on as soon as reasonably possible.

A spiritual belief of seeing them again I think is actually harmful in the long run. Those who remain behind are often shattered by the process and, IMO, they are better of closing that chapter and moving on with what they have left.

Coriolanus

Not necessarily a god but when my father died I found myself wishing I could believe in an afterlife. Certainly seems to give my mother a lot of comfort.

Northclare

What used to comfort me when I didn't believe in god was the thought of death being like an eternal dream less sleep.

sbsquarepants

There is a god



Praise the lord:D

seamus

It seems to me that if the existence of a God and afterlife became "fact" overnight (ignoring how it would become so), that it would instantly render this life utterly pointless - a "holding cell" before you go into the afterlife. You couldn't bring anything forward with you into the afterlife, so why bother working, etc. Instead you would be better off aiming to get there as quickly as possible so you can begin the process of eternity.

You'd have moral problems - murder would no longer be a big deal. Safety would be a non-issue.

Of course the biggest issue is that you have to pick one of the billions of possible implementations of "God and the afterlife and all that stuff". And most of those implementations inherently exclude 99% of people from going to heaven and either consign them to hell or permanent death. More moral issues there - if we're all going to hell, we may as well do something to deserve it.

The very fabric of human society hinges on the fact that there's probably nothing afterwards. The most optimistic thing we can say for certain about an afterlife is, "We haven't a clue whether or not it exists".
This means that we treat this life as the only one we get and so afford it the preciousness it deserves.

I know that's a lot more academic than you were asking in your OP. However, while every atheist would say that they would give anything to see their deceased loved ones again, that doesn't reflect any weakness or "rethinking" in their position vis-a-vis religion/God.

eyescreamcone

Take responsibility for your own life and actions.
When things go wrong sort it out yourself.

Only the weak look for help from supernatural beings.

Grow up - be the god in your own life!!!

joseph brand

TeddyTedson wrote: »

If someone close to you tragically dies or kills themselves, do or have you ever began to reassess your beliefs in a lack of god in the hope of meeting the person again.?

.

The thought of no afterlife makes this life all the more precious. If one believes in the next life and 'meeting up' with everyone you ever knew, then death is kinda trivial (80 years here vs eternity life in paradise).

For an example:
I think most of us have lost our grandparents. They are not forgotten. My grandparents show up in my dreams and I carry their genes around in me. I'm sure my children have their genes too, and mine of course. So in that way, they're not fully 'gone'. God or no God.

In the case of younger people who have died, ie, brothers and sisters, friends etc, they have touched all those around them and will always be remembered. We may even have learned something from them.

Dades

TeddyTedson wrote: »

If you could flick a switch and create a god, afterlife and everything that goes with it would you?

Not too bothered about having a god - don't need one of those tbh.

An afterlife would be fine in my book. I don't care if I'm half-lobotomised, if I can meet all my loved ones on the stairs like Kate Winslet and Leo DiCaprio in that dream at the end of Titanic, then great.

Even better if I can play football like Roberto Baggio and guitar like Clapton.

Sarky

Flick a switch and create a god?

I'm not enough of a bastard, frankly. Taking charge of your own accomplishments and failures is an important part of life, all the more so because life is something which ends. The knowledge that mankind's dizzying highs and depraved lows are a result of mankind, and nothing else, is at once liberating and sobering, providing incentive to strive for greatness and attempt to curb our own villainy. There's just us. Only ever us.

Oh, it might start out fine and dandy with hugs and flowers and singalongs in the sunshine for all, but sooner or later I guarantee it'll turn to crap with people too guilty to claim credit for the good they've done, or too cowardly to accept their f*ck-ups. And if this new god is anything like any of the other gods people have ever believed in, he'll be either the kind of jerk that enjoys this, or a complete deadbeat absentee father type. Neither deserves a shred of respect. And THEN there'll be disagreements over something he was supposed to have said, which will eventually lead to bloodshed, and we're back to square one.

barfizz

Having a god would be great fun, just think of all the things i could do.

I could blame him every time something goes wrong and not try to fix it.

If i don't understand something i can put it down to his supreme intervention and not bother to try to understand it.

If i don't like someones behavior i can say that it is against his will, nothing to do with me, I don't make the rules.

When I die and go to christian heaven, i could be surrounded by a load of self-righteous gits who spend their time saying "I told you so"

Muslim men are promised 72 young virgins and boys for perpetual enjoyment.
I wonder if it is paradise for the virgins or boys?

TeddyTedson

That's right Sarky, flick a switch. It's simple science :P


A lot of people are suggesting that an after life and a God would make this life pointless. But for example in the Christian faith, you're not guarenteed a gateway to heaven. You might have to spend time in purgatory or worse yet, burn for eternity in heck hell..."but he loves you"... "AND HE NEEDS MONEY"


I often wonder about non religious people who become born again Christians. A lot seem to stem from drug abuse, but they seem to be so happy in their own skin after "embracing the lord", I find it truly extraordinary. It almost seems as if they've brainwashed themselves...

Zombrex

I think it would be great if there was a god, just not any of the gods that organized religious have come up with.

Gregor Samsa

I'd prefer if there were lots of gods, and they had never-ending battles in the sky, and had sex with people while appearing as bulls, and bits of their bodies got chopped off and became geographical features. And they had monkey armies that built bridges and stuff. That would spice things up a bit.

Monotheism is boring.

Sarky

Polytheism does sound like the kind of soap opera that wouldn't suck ass.

RichieC

Certainly not the spiteful childish asshole the christians and muslims pray too.

philologos

barfizz wrote: »

When I die and go to christian heaven, i could be surrounded by a load of self-righteous gits who spend their time saying "I told you so"

You could be surrounded by self-righteous gits. Given the Gospel it doesn't seem likely. Given that Christianity clearly teaches that we are saved by Jesus' death and resurrection rather than any deed that I have ever done. That's pretty much the polar opposite of self righteousness. Jesus criticised those who believed that they were justified by their religious works (e.g Matthew 23, Mark 7). In fact, the most religious people of His day didn't know God (John 5 - 6).

What is surprising about Christianity is that it teaches that our good works were prepared by God in advance, and that we were rescued from the penalty of sin by faith in Jesus Christ and trusting in Him.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV)

One of the things I long for every nation is that a remnant of people rise up to follow Jesus Christ.

Sarky

Because that never ends badly.

Liamario

No thanks. As much as I care about my friends and family, I suspect that come the age of 90 , I'll be welcoming death with open arms.

philologos

Sarky wrote: »

Because that never ends badly.

Funny that you should say that. Following Jesus and Him alone, never ends badly as far as I can tell.

Using some idea of "Christendom" as a mechanism for going to war against an established foe or for ruling nations is generally not great. None of these systems did the above though as far as I can tell. A dry tool of state coercion is nothing in comparison to a dynamic and living grassroots movement.

kylith

philologos wrote: »

What is surprising about Christianity is that it teaches that our good works were prepared by God in advance, and that we were rescued from the penalty of sin by faith in Jesus Christ and trusting in Him.

So God plots out our good deeds in advance, but when we do bad deeds it's nothing to do with him?

philologos

kylith wrote: »

So God plots out our good deeds in advance, but when we do bad deeds it's nothing to do with him?

Through accepting Him, and asking Him into our lives He inspires our Christian walk to lean more and more towards Him on a daily basis.

You seem to be forgetting that in the Christian sphere of thought:
Good deeds are those which honour God's standards.
Bad deeds are those which dishonour God's standards.

So no, I don't particularly see much rhyme, reason or sense in believing that God encourages people to dishonour Him and His standards for living in the world that He created.

barfizz

philologos wrote: »

You could be surrounded by self-righteous gits. Given the Gospel it doesn't seem likely. Given that Christianity clearly teaches that we are saved by Jesus' death and resurrection rather than any deed that I have ever done. That's pretty much the polar opposite of self righteousness. Jesus criticised those who believed that they were justified by their religious works (e.g Matthew 23, Mark 7). In fact, the most religious people of His day didn't know God (John 5 - 6).

What is surprising about Christianity is that it teaches that our good works were prepared by God in advance, and that we were rescued from the penalty of sin by faith in Jesus Christ and trusting in Him.


One of the things I long for every nation is that a remnant of people rise up to follow Jesus Christ.

Thanks for saying " I told you so"

philologos

barfizz wrote: »

Thanks for saying " I told you so"

Que?

I've just explained how Christianity couldn't be any further from self-righteousness if it is based on Jesus.

I'm a sinner, I don't deserve God's grace or favour. It's only because of Jesus that I have any form of hope of being with Him for eternity.

robindch

philologos wrote: »

Following Jesus and Him alone, never ends badly as far as I can tell.

Would you follow him all the way to Jerusalem?

philologos wrote: »

Using some idea of "Christendom" as a mechanism for going to war against an established foe or for ruling nations is generally not great.

Well, if the holy places of your religion had been taken over by people with allegiance to a competing religion, and the places were being desecrated and destroyed and your deity was looking correspondingly weak and powerless, would you feel you had to do something to help your religion regain some kind of respect?

barfizz

philologos wrote: »

Que?

I've just explained how Christianity couldn't be any further from self-righteousness if it is based on Jesus.

I'm a sinner, I don't deserve God's grace or favour. It's only because of Jesus that I have any form of hope of being with Him for eternity.

You crack me up, You really are funny.

HUNK

Well, if it's Yahweh then...

kylith

philologos wrote: »

Through accepting Him, and asking Him into our lives He inspires our Christian walk to lean more and more towards Him on a daily basis.

You seem to be forgetting that in the Christian sphere of thought:
Good deeds are those which honour God's standards.
Bad deeds are those which dishonour God's standards.

So no, I don't particularly see much rhyme, reason or sense in believing that God encourages people to dishonour Him and His standards for living in the world that He created.

But you said that God planned out our good deeds. So he must plan out our bad deeds too. In that case we don't have free will.

Unless we do have free will, in which case God doesn't plan our deeds, good or bad.

You can't have it both ways. God either plans our actions or he doesn't. We can't have free will to do bad things, but not good things.

philologos

robindch wrote: »

Would you follow him all the way to Jerusalem?

Well, if the holy places of your religion had been taken over by people with allegiance to a competing religion, and the places were being desecrated and destroyed and your deity was looking correspondingly weak and powerless, would you feel you had to do something to help your religion regain some kind of respect?

A passage to leave you with:

John 4:19-23 wrote:

The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

Think about that, and think about what you just said in light of it. This universe is all God's. Desecrating a few churches will mean nothing.

barfizz: At least I did something for you today

robindch

philologos wrote: »

A passage to leave you with: Think about that, and think about what you just said in light of it. This universe is all God's. Desecrating a few churches will mean nothing.

So is that a "yes" or a "no"?

Sarky

When you say "as far as I can tell" are you sure you don't really mean "I am not bothering to look"? It's almost like when you say "it makes sense to me" but never go into any detail on why...

eyescreamcone

philologos wrote: »

barfizz wrote: »

Thanks for saying " I told you so"

Que?

I've just explained how Christianity couldn't be any further from self-righteousness if it is based on Jesus.

I'm a sinner, I don't deserve God's grace or favour. It's only because of Jesus that I have any form of hope of being with Him for eternity.

You will be with Jesus for eternity
Under the ground as a rotting corpses that is
You will be fertiliser for plants that produce oxygen for this planet
Your created oxygen will mix with that created by all dead animals including the dead Jews of 2000 years ago, including that from Jesus' corpse

Thus you will be with hIM for eternity.
We are animals who are part of the earths ecosystem, just as your Jesus was!!!

Bertser

The one that is believed in? No. But if there was a god who would cure diseases, prevent natural disasters, etc, I'd be all for it, although with an ideal god there'd be nothing like that in the first place

philologos

robindch wrote: »

philologos wrote: »

A passage to leave you with: Think about that, and think about what you just said in light of it. This universe is all God's. Desecrating a few churches will mean nothing.

So is that a "yes" or a "no"?

That's in the middle. I find the question peculiar. Why would following Jesus in Jerusalem be any more important than in London?

philologos

kylith wrote: »

philologos wrote: »

Through accepting Him, and asking Him into our lives H ie inspires our Christian walk to lean more and more towards Him on a daily basis.

You seem to be forgetting that in the Christian sphere of thought:
Good deeds are those which honour God's standards.
Bad deeds are those which dishonour God's standards.

So no, I don't particularly see much rhyme, reason or sense in believing that God encourages people to dishonour Him and His standards for living in the world that He created.

But you said that God planned out our good deeds. So he must plan out our bad deeds too. In that case we don't have free will.

Unless we do have free will, in which case God doesn't plan our deeds, good or bad.

You can't have it both ways. God either plans our actions or he doesn't. We can't have free will to do bad things, but not good things.

Yes I can actually. It's perfectly reasonable to say that God can act in a believers life if they ask Him to by accepting Jesus. It's also reasonable that we can use our selfish ego to bring us to sin.

Also even if God foreknew everything knowledge does not equal culpability.

I may start a thread over yonder about this to discuss in depth.

inagoodway

Teddy, of course god is there,

and it is at the moment a he,


that's what i am sure of

but as already is clear, believe it if you like:)


long live god

fatmammycat

Would I prefer a god to exist? No, I'm glad there isn't such a creation jerking our strings for its amusement.

nozzferrahhtoo

philologos wrote: »

That's pretty much the polar opposite of self righteousness.

Not really, the Jesus myth is just the art of "Scapegoating" moved from an actual goat to a person.

philologos wrote: »

What is surprising about Christianity is that it teaches

No what is surprising about Christianity is that it allows people like you to espouse not just slightly, but COMPLETELY unfounded and unsubstantiated beliefs over and over again and get away with it, run for the hills when challanged by anyone at all, then return to another thread and start it again. Even when it is entirely off topic such as your posts here are.

philologos wrote: »

I'm a sinner, I don't deserve God's grace or favour. It's only because of Jesus that I have any form of hope of being with Him for eternity.

Ah yes the stolkholm syndrome aspect of religion. You are held captive to the notion that there is a perfect standard, you are born well below that standard, commanded to strive for it, but you will never reach it because you are just pathetic and made from a piece of dust or a clot of blood, depending on your particular choice of religion, but god loves you anyway despite your failures and for this you have to be grateful. Religion really has evolved to take advantage in cunning ways of the weaknesses in the human psyche.

On topic however, something you do not appear to strive for: Do I wish there was a god? Certainly not if it is the kind of god that creates you deliberately below a standard, deliberately unable to reach that standard, and then admonishes you to be grateful for loving you despite never being able to reach that standard. Such a god, in my mind, is a sadistic troll.

Sindri

Would I like a God to exist?


Not particularly.


Do I wish there was an afterlife?


Sometimes. But only to fulfil my short term requirements of one.

Of course I'd love to meet deceased loved ones, even if it was just in my imagination.:(

Death is the/a problem, we don't cope well to death. The audacity of life to give you someone, cherish them, and then have them taken from you.

You will give anything to meet them again.

(Or maybe that's part of the resolution of grief?)

Delirium

No. I've yet to read any mythology where a god didn't engage is some form of abuse of their powers.

I'd be convince that it would be Orwell's 1984 on a cosmic level. So pardon me if I don't get giddy with excitement at that prospect.

inagoodway

koth wrote: »

No. I've yet to read any mythology where a god didn't engage is some form of abuse of their powers.

I'd be convince that it would be Orwell's 1984 on a cosmic level. So pardon me if I don't get giddy with excitement at that prospect.

i agree with you on that point Koth, only really believe what you see with your own eyes; however i would also say , listen to your heart, (hope that helps;))

fatmammycat

inagoodway wrote: »

i agree with you on that point Koth, only really believe what you see with your own eyes; however i would also say , listen to your heart, (hope that helps;))

Your heart talks? My heart only pumps blood around my body.

inagoodway

fatmammycat wrote: »

Your heart talks? My heart only pumps blood around my body.

wanna swap?

Delirium

inagoodway wrote: »

i agree with you on that point Koth, only really believe what you see with your own eyes; however i would also say , listen to your heart, (hope that helps;))

you flirting with me??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCC_b5WHLX0

:P

inagoodway

can't listen to video, broadband restriction:(, however maybe the song will come on the radio ?


and no i wasn't "flirting"

if i was flirting i would say, "kiss me":o

fatmammycat

inagoodway wrote: »

wanna swap?

Nope.