Lana Del Rey

Have a feeling there wouldn't be so much hoopla about her if she wasn't such a ride, personally I think she's ok, Video Games is a good pop song but all this hype and she hasn't even released her first album. Btw not sure she is alt/indie, sometimes I wonder what some of the bands and artists here (including ones I've mentioned probably!) are doing on this thread.

sillo wrote: »

The album will make or break her and I'm quite curious to see if it's any good. If she's got an album full of stuff as refined as the two singles she'll make a mint and go on to be huge.

If it's 90% filler it'll stink like a stone. The fact it hasn't been leaked yet has got to be a bad sign.

Her first two single are quite similiar, she'll need a fair bit of varitation from those songs for it to be successful.

In fairness Maccabee's album only leaked the night before it's release and it was a cracking album.

Sadly have to agree with you Cornholio. Oh well. Back to EMA with me...

this


reminds me of this

Rant ahoy:

Lana Del Rey isn't music, it's content. It reeks of the antiquated cogs of a dying machine straining to remain relevant. The age of huge record labels is over. Everything about LDR is cynical. From the blanket marketing, the attempt to win over the indie market, the complete inauthenticity of her as an artist, right up to her image. You can fool some of the people some of the time.

We live in the best age for music there has ever been. Music has now reached a point where only the great survive. You can't fool us. The control the big record lables once had over what we hear has been extinguished by the internet. Acts have to do the work now. They have to build them selves up, put themselves out. It's pretty much the rule now that acts won't be discovered til way down the line. It's years of thankless gigging, building up an audience, interacting with that audience, and not hoping that you'll be 'discovered' by one of the big three. There's no money in records any more. If you can't play live you're toast. If you're building record sales into your business plan you've already failed.

This is how it is. And this is how it should be.

No matter how much money you throw behind something you can't buy credibility, you can't buy the 10,000 hours you have to put in to be great.

LDR is the epitome of mediocrity. Video Games is a great pop song. Lovely melody. Good production. But it's vapid. There's nothing there. There's nothing authentic about it. There's nothing authentic about her. Record labels want to create another Adele, whose success is a total anomaly in the current state of things. LDR just stinks of groupthink and consensus by committee. There's no integrity, no vision. I want integrity in my artists.

LDR is the last gasp of a dying behemoth. If you buy into it you're a sucker. It's your prerogative, but you're still a sucker.

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO

EDIT: Bob Lefsetz can say it better than I ever could:

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2012/01/15/lana-del-rey-on-snl/

pinksoir wrote: »

Rant ahoy:

No matter how much money you throw behind something you can't buy credibility, you can't buy the 10,000 hours you have to put in to be great.

LDR is the epitome of mediocrity. Video Games is a great pop song. Lovely melody. Good production. But it's vapid. There's nothing there. There's nothing authentic about it. There's nothing authentic about her. Record labels want to create another Adele, whose success is a total anomaly in the current state of things. LDR just stinks of groupthink and consensus by committee. There's no integrity, no vision. I want integrity in my artists.

LDR is the last gasp of a dying behemoth. If you buy into it you're a sucker. It's your prerogative, but you're still a sucker.
rey-on-snl/[/url]

I like music because of how it sounds. It don't understand why you'd deny yourself enjoying music because of how it was born or how it is marketed.

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Its a great pop song,thats good enough for me,i love it.....authentic? who's authentic? Bob Dylans arguably the greatest songwriter ever(i think so anyway)and hes full of ****,fake name,made up a whole fake life for himself when he was starting out(he was from a nice middle class family and had not in fact run away to join the circus as he claimed along with many other hilariously made up stories)to call her out on not being authentic is just ridiculous

David Bowie was(and still is in some quarters)accused of being fake too,the guys a genius so who ****ing cares?(his real name is David Jones!:eek:)


I only got half way through LDRs album before turning it off,didnt do any thing for me but if it works for some then so what? theres always been rubbish in the charts,theres far more negativity about her in the media and especially on the internet than positive stuff,not like people think shes the new Beatles or anything


I do agree that the modern way of "making it" just doesnt work though,people like Bruce Springsteen didnt get get their reputation over night,he worked his ass off for years playing to pubs with 10 people in them and learned his craft,its the only way to last in the music business

I agree, but you're mistaking authenticity in the sense of being a representation of who you are with artistic authenticity in the sense of being 'the real deal'. Bob Dylan, Bowie et al are artistically authentic in that they didn't compromise, they followed through on a vision and they did it the hard way. You could just as easily cite someone contemporary like Bjork, Panda Bear, Grizzly Bear, Deerhunter, Sigur Ros or whoever. Authentic artists. You don't have to like them but they're artistically authentic.

All the negative criticism is entirely justified and a testament to how much the industry has been superceded by the democracy of the internet. There was a time when all you could ever hear was what major labels deemed worthy to put out. They'd buy up radio play, blanket advertise etc etc. that model doesn't work any more. People got wise over the last ten years. What's more, great music can come from anywhere now. A kid in his bedroom or whatever. If it's truly great it will get heard. People will rave about it and word of it will trickle down.

People are more discerning now than ever. They have to be. There's so much out there. That's precisely why stuff like LDR will never last.

Of course there's still a market for that type of stuff, but it's dwindling and made up of people who have nothing invested in music. Like Charlie Brooker said, people who listen to music because it seems to be the 'done thing'. They're not the type of people who can prop up an industry. The people who love music go to gigs, get obsessed with bands, rave about them to their friends. They're the people who sustain music. Not a la carte listeners.

Velvety wrote: »

I like music because of how it sounds. I don't understand why you'd deny yourself enjoying music because of how it was born or how it is marketed.

I enjoy plenty of music. I don't deny myself much. The music I love and enjoy most deeply, the music that connects most with me is music made without compromise and without the input of focus groups. There is far much more to music than a melody. It speaks to the soul on many different levels. Like John Maus says, it's the communication of ideas through an intensive use of a major language. You can't escape the context of music.

johnny_ultimate, I take your point and agree. I have no feelings towards LDR one way or the other. I like Video Games. It's in my head. But listening to the lyrics, there's nothing but cliche. Nothing new or interesting. Nothing of worth. That's why I think it's vapid. There doesn't seem, at least to me, to be any real emotion there. Sure, the production is fantastic and the melody is quite haunting, but you could have those lyrics on any pop song ever. There's no glimpse of a personality. Like they came from a focus group. But whatever.

If there is any hostility in what I wrote, it's not towards LDR, but rather towards the industry that is dying from a situation it created itself. They don't think about artistic development, they don't think about longevity. Do you reckon they'll stand behind LDR if her next record flops?

I have no idea what she's like as a songwriter or artist. Could be she is a real talent. I don't wish her to fail, but I think the sooner the big labels crumble the better. Real talent has to work hard to gain attention. Do their 10,000 hours like the Beatles, play gigs in front of no one and suck. Then get better, gradually. The era of an an act breaking through from being an unknown with no experience and fooling the public into believing they're the real deal is over. It was a short lived time. We're back to the 50's.

I just think LDR is a prime example of the cynical attempts of labels (in the last throes of their reign) blowing up in their face. I rejoice in that. Rightly or wrongly.

Velvety wrote: »

Why? Would you disregard every band or artist that doesn't play live? Like Portishead or Kate Bush?

Both of those acts worked incredibly hard to get where they are now. Kate Bush is an anomaly in that she never plays live, but she has that privilege by being a seminal artist of her or any generation.

I think the album is currently number one in ten countries and seems to be fairly well received critically.

Album sales mean nothing. Albums themselves are promotion for live gigs, by and large.

What I think you're saying is that artists should slowly learn their craft and develop and get better as they gig and learn. I don't think I agree. I'd hate to be in a band described as "hardworking". Burn out your best work in a blaze of talent and inspiration.

Good luck with that. But seriously, you'd hate to work hard in order to be successful in the thing you love more than anything?

No act has ever burned out their best work in a blaze of talent and inspiration. You might think they have because they led you to believe they have.

If you're part of a band and you think you can have it any other way you're setting yourself up to fail. Reality will kick you in the balls pretty hard.

Listened to the album for the first time today and first impressions are positive, couldn't give a monkeys about anything else beyond the music.

Yeah, I get the whole "well so and so is anything but authentic but they're a great artist" argument. It's just not what I'm saying. Bob Dylan, like him or not (I could take him or leave him tbh) is the real deal. He put in his 10,000 hours. He slogged through cafes and what have you until he got his break. Any artists worth their salt has done the same. Name any band you like and you have a band that has started off sucking in front of an empty venue and worked their way up.

My point is that LDR hasn't done any of this. And no matter how much money her label throws behind her they can't buy that. Which is evidenced by her awful live performances. The age of MTV is over. Artists can't hide behind music videos any more. That was a short lived period in the greater scheme of things and now we're back to the 50's where an act has to do their 10,000 hours. Some people are born to be on stage. Most have to work at it for years. Anyone could write a song. That ain't enough any more. If you can't perform it live you're toast. LDR is a vacuum of charisma. Not because she's a good or bad songwriter but because she's absolutely zero experience. And as a result she's utterly unremarkable.

That's what I mean by authentic. Authentic as in someone who has worked their ass off to get where they are, who has lived and breathed music and has earned the privilege to make a living from what they love. An authentic artist.

Art doesn't have to be authentic in the sense you mean. But the one making it has to be the real deal.

My rant is about what has been an extremely cynical attempt by a major label to try and market an artist to the indie/alternative crowd and completely misjudging it because they're so far out of whack with how that world of music now operates. The world has moved on without them, they're nearly completely irrelevent. Money in music is now made through the gig goers dealing almost directly with the artist, not through album sales. They're the architects of their own downfall and LDR is a prime example of how out of touch they are. It's a shame that someone like LDR has to bear the brunt of their failings, but how and ever.

Hardworkingness is a factor in artistic authenticity. There is probably a better term for what I mean, if I was smarter I'd be able to express it more clearly. Commitment to the vision, seeing it through and being uncompromising or whatever. I dunno. Anyway, it's a philosophical concept so by its nature difficult to explain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_in_art

The "Bob Dylan is inauthentic" argument doesn't go because you're talking about a completely different type of authenticity. His vision, uncompromisingness and commitment to seeing through the vision, and whatever else is authentic, even if he's not Woodie Guthrie. And in order for these things to galvanise takes the hard work. In regards to art, pop music especially, there is very little that is truly authentic but rather the end product of the artist's influences put through the sieve of his own mind. I'm not sure if it even makes sense to talk about authenticity in the way you mean it when it comes to art. Unless we're talking about the avant garde. Maybe.

Whatever about that, it's extremely acedemic.

My gripe isn't with LDR, as I keep saying, but with the out of date machinery behind her. And that's my point.

I have no idea what LDR's artistic vision is, or whether she has one or not. The problem with major labels is they don't give room for artistic vision and everything is a compromise. They used to, but now they don't. Mostly because they aren't thinking long-term, they want a finished product to market and development isn't considered. And now because they're on the wane this is intensified. But that's not what people want from their music any more. There is just too much music out there and people have to be much more discerning. LDR strikes me and other people as a pathetic attempt by the record industry to try and trick music lovers (not tourists) into believing the industry is still relevent. If her management had any interest in her integrity or long term success as an artist they'd have gone a different route other than the quick buck.

I totally agree and by and large I do precisely that.

It's just that there was a time when the majors was the only place acts could go to have success, but that time has passed. Or if not passed then passing rapidly. Pretty much every band that will be still around in ten years will not be on a major. The labels want to create another success like Adele but she is an anomoly and it's not a bankable business strategy. Small labels are so far ahead in terms of long term thinking and the majors are bullheadedly sticking to the old system and losing.

I just think that's great. And music is flourishing in a way it never has done before. And great music is more accessible than ever precisely because it isn't filtered through some businessman in a major label.

The types of strategies majors are looking towards that I've heard of are pretty pathetic - gearing towards ringtones and so on. The reality is that the majors are doomed. The days of obscene amounts of money being made by labels are over. Because it was the quo for the last 20 years meant that the labels became complacent and innovation stagnated, both in the sorts of artists they signed and the way they did business. But then the internet came along and the buried their head in the sand until it was too late. Their time in the sun was nothing but a spike in the grand scheme of things.

In my view LDR is a good example of someone caught on the edge of a shifting paradigm and that's the only reason I bothered posting in this thread. I think it's incredibly interesting and inspiring.

sink wrote: »

Listened to the album for the first time today and first impressions are positive, couldn't give a monkeys about anything else beyond the music.

+1

it says a lot about us, the weight we give to these back-stories, gossip and often idle begrudgery. much of which is online.

I can understand why people might resent the fact that someone has been given a better chance at success than others, through money, contacts, or whatever the case may be.

But music is generally enjoyed first and foremost (by me at least) on a sensory level.

it seems a lot of people have already made up their mind about some music before they've even heard it.

i don't care if it was manufactured by a million songwriters and she's a rich kid. it doesn't change the music.

i rate the music. its very pleasant. she has a nice voice. so what if she screwed up SNL, she's human. the same people would be giving out if she faithfully recreated the album version - "she's got no character yada yada".

different strokes i guess