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Myths about rape victims

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Comments

  • #32
    Larleane28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭Larleane28


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Well if you read what I said, I explicitly mentioned that it didn't cover all scenario's. The unfortunate reality about rape, is (again, as I mentioned in my previous post) that there are rarely any witnesses. This means that its one word against another in a lot of cases. I don't like that a rapist can get away with their crime, but the reality is what it is. That reality being that unless there is some good evidence that unwanted sexual intercourse occurred, its one word against another. It is horrible that a rape victim has to go through reliving the moment, being cross examined, maybe even having her reputation being brought into disrepute, but the reality is that someone who is accused of rape has a right to state their case too. I don't really know if it can be handled differently? I believe harsher sentences for those convicted, as well as even harsher sentences again for those found guilty, who in their defence, bring their victims name into disrepute and exentuate the victimes sufferring.

    Do we really have to listen to this same tripe every time the issue of rape is raised around here? And while we're at it (as far as broader society is concerned) I would like to know, how much longer are we expected to keep on pretending that sexual assault is not a HIGHLY gendered crime?


  • #33
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    I understand where people are coming from but it would be nice to have a conversation about this for once without someone starting a "but what about all the innocent men" spiel. No-one on this thread has said that we should just lock up everyone accused of rape. Of course it needs to be proven. This thread is for discussing the under-reporting of rape and how it is dealt with once reported and possible things we can do to change this.


  • #34
    Spokes of Glory
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭Spokes of Glory


    Larleane28 wrote: »
    Do we really have to listen to this same tripe every time the issue of rape is raised around here? And while we're at it (as far as broader society is concerned) I would like to know, how much longer are we expected to keep on pretending that sexual assault is not a HIGHLY gendered crime?

    What tripe ? Being entitled to a defense is hardly tripe. The questions posed are why are many rape cases not prosecuted, and of those that are, why are convictions so hard to get ? The fact that the accuser may be drunk at the time weakens any case where there may be little independent evidence. No prosecutor is going to bring a case to trial where he knows the "reasonable doubt" factor is too great.

    If you think the right to a trial is tripe, what other system would you like to see ?


  • #35
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Folks, there has already been clear warning given.

    This is The Ladies Lounge - a discussion forum designed for female posters to discuss issues pertinent to THEM, from a female perspective. The topic of this particular thread is myths about rape victims.

    Anyone wishing to have a discussion on the judiciary or discuss rape from a male perspective should do so on the relevant forum/s.

    Final warning.


  • #36
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Is the process for suing not the same as bringing a custodial sentence? Either the accused is guilty or innocent?

    No it is not the same, to start with in a civil case the victim has legal presentation in court who is looking after them as their client, and works in their best interest. In a criminal case they have no one to speak up for them, the DPP repents the States best interest.


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  • #37
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Hey there's a discussion on the legalisation/criminalisation of prostitution in Ireland going on that I think some of you could make a worthy contribution to. it kinda crosses over into this territory a bit.


  • #38
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Crooked Jack - tLL is also not a place to post in random threads in an attempt to round up participants for discussions in other forums.

    Please familiarise yourself with the Forum Charter before posting here again.


  • #39
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Larleane28 wrote: »
    Do we really have to listen to this same tripe every time the issue of rape is raised around here? And while we're at it (as far as broader society is concerned) I would like to know, how much longer are we expected to keep on pretending that sexual assault is not a HIGHLY gendered crime?

    'tripe'? So whats the alternative? Someone reports rape - accused assumed guilty and then sentanced? I mean, be realistic. Rather than ranting, what alternatives do you have? Also, I can't speak for others, but I think it glaringly obvious that the majority of sexual assault is perpetrated by men. I see no evidence of anyone pretending:confused:


  • #40
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    I would think that changing the process so it was better would mean more people would report and under go the court process, so that there would be less of a stigma on the victims and less stigma on those who are falsely accused and never get cleared in court.


  • #41
    meganj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭meganj


    There was an opinion piece in todays Irish Times about the 'slut walk' movement http://http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0202/1224311111718.html

    The moment was started in response to the comments of a Toronto police officer that if women wanted to avoid being raped they should stop dressing like sluts.

    Essentially he used the 'they were asking for it' statement so prevalent sometimes when talking about rape survivors.

    I think some people want to blame the survivors. I think it makes them feel safer. If you can point to something that a woman or man did that 'got them raped' then you feel safer in the knowledge that it will never happen to you because you would never put yourself in that place. It's almost like a reflex.

    If you look at the US (and I am ashamed to say that I know more about the history of rape in US law then I do here) in the 1980's most states adopted 'the rape shield' law which meant that a survivors previous sexual history could not be used in court. I could not imagine being raped and then having a solicitor bring up every single sexual encounter I had as a way to somehow invalidate what had happened to me. But it does happen.

    The recent Listowel case (talked about here quite indepth) where a man was found guilty of rape and members of the public in the court room got up to shake the mans hand. It's disgraceful.

    Many survivors talk about the experience of talking about the rape and going through a criminal proceeding as being akin to being raped again. I think the justice system needs to be changed, but I think no matter how we develop our legal system there will always be some sort of blame apportioned to rape survivors.

    For people who have never been raped they simply cannot understand the process and I think it does come back to people's desire for simplicity. If you can blame the victim, then you don't need to worry yourself, I think it's why we talk about stranger rape more often then we do rape by people known to the survivor.

    Also I think it is important to note that while it may be rare for men to be raped, because of the low reporting rate we have no idea of how prevalent it is. In addition we have no idea how often women rape because once again it often goes unreported (i imagine out of fear that a South Park moment is going to happen).

    I think the most important thing we can do to as people (not men/women) is educate ourselves. It's important that young boys/girls learn that no means no, and that if a girl/boy is too drunk/high to say yes that you must take that as a no.

    I think both sexes need to bare in mind that no one 'asks' to be raped, that's why it's called rape and not consensual sex and no amount of survivor blaming takes away from the fact that it does happen and when it does people need our support not our 'oh well if you had done this' or 'well if you hadn't been doing that'.


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  • #42
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Sharrow wrote: »
    I would think that changing the process so it was better would mean more people would report and under go the court process, so that there would be less of a stigma on the victims and less stigma on those who are falsely accused and never get cleared in court.

    Any suggestions? I can't think of any. Maybe if we made it law put cameras on everyone's head permanently but I can't see that happening.


  • #43
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I've had to go unregged for this, because this is very recent for me and it's not something I find easy to talk about or deal with, but after seeing yet another of these threads I had to say something.

    I felt sick when I saw the thread appear, because I knew it would spiral out of control in the same way all of the others have. And I knew I'd keep reading, I knew I'd keep reading because as much as I tell myself it's not my fault, and as much as other people try to convince me - it only takes a few words to send my world crashing in around me all over again. Knowing something, and making yourself believe it, are 2 entirely different things.

    I went to a bar, I had 5 drinks. My drink was spiked. I woke up with no idea where I was, or who I was with - who was on top of me. I didn't know where I was, but I got out, and I wandered - I wandered for what seemed like forever until a guy stopped and asked what happened, told me I was in shock, and said he'd take me home. I thought he'd look after me, that was a mistake. He saw an opportunity and he took it. He took me home, and it all started all over again. I struggle with this, because I'm the common denominator. Two guys, and me. I struggle to accept that it's not my fault.

    Yet here you are, all of these people who post in these threads and question it. Do you think it's my fault for going to a club? For having a few drinks? For accepting help when I thought it was all over?

    I do, most of the time I do - I can't help it. And you know what the hardest thing is? Worrying that everyone else thinks it too. And you know what's harder than that? Seeing it written down in front of you, and KNOWING there are so many people who do. It f.ucking kills me inside. Every single day. The guilt, the embarrassment, the anger, the hate. Everything.

    I'm doing my best. I'm seeing someone who is trying to help me get through it, and to deal with everything. But it's changed me, and it's changed my whole world. I haven't felt 'happy' in so, so long; sometimes I'm scared I'll never feel it again. I either feel so crushed under the weight of my world that I can't see a way out; or else I feel nothing. That's what it's come to - the only way I can survive now is just not to feel at all.

    So, you may call me a survivor - but this isn't living, this isn't a life.

    I still can't say the word, I can read it here, and I can post this..but I can't say it. But what I can say is this, it's so much more than just that one incident, it's so much more than just an attack on your body - it's an attack on everything that you thought you were, and everything that you thought you knew. It tears you up inside and takes away all of the nuts and bolts that once held you together, it leaves you empty and abandoned..and in pieces.

    It's never ok. I don't care what the circumstance, I don't care who said what or who did what, and I don't care what anyone else thinks or says...it's never, never ok.

    I'm never going to write about this on here again, but I just hope this makes some people understand a bit more, I hope it makes them think.

    Thank you for reading.


  • #44
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Sharrow wrote: »
    I would think that changing the process so it was better would mean more people would report and under go the court process, so that there would be less of a stigma on the victims and less stigma on those who are falsely accused and never get cleared in court.

    Well thats the issue. What is it that can be done? The above is the ends (Which we all want), but what we need is the means. Has anyone got any realistic suggestions as to what can be done? Thers a lot of 'the system needs to change' etc being said, but very little in terms of suggesting what these changes could be.


  • #45
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Sharrow wrote: »
    I would think that changing the process so it was better would mean more people would report and under go the court process, so that there would be less of a stigma on the victims and less stigma on those who are falsely accused and never get cleared in court.

    Well thats the issue. What is it that can be done? The above is the ends (Which we all want), but what we need is the means. Has anyone got any realistic suggestions as to what can be done? Thers a lot of 'the system needs to change' etc being said, but very little in terms of suggesting what these changes could be.

    Sometimes you have to accept that all you can do is minimise the suffering. No matter what there will always be rapists getting away free and there will always be innocent men who go to prison for false rape accusations. That's just tough. Same with any crime, there will always be innocent people in prison and guilty people free. Life's not fair and if you don't accept that harsh reality any many others you will make life harder for yourself.


  • #46
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Sharrow wrote: »
    I would think that changing the process so it was better would mean more people would report and under go the court process, so that there would be less of a stigma on the victims and less stigma on those who are falsely accused and never get cleared in court.

    Well thats the issue. What is it that can be done? The above is the ends (Which we all want), but what we need is the means. Has anyone got any realistic suggestions as to what can be done? Thers a lot of 'the system needs to change' etc being said, but very little in terms of suggesting what these changes could be.

    Sometimes you have to accept that all you can do is minimise the suffering. No matter what there will always be rapists getting away free and there will always be innocent men who go to prison for false rape accusations. That's just tough. Same with any crime, there will always be innocent people in prison and guilty people free. Life's not fair and if you don't accept that harsh reality any many others you will make life harder for yourself.


  • #47
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    There seems to be a lot of talk of 'victim blaming' but the last time I checked, rapists and sexual predators were a fairly ostracised group in society. Up there with murderers on the scumbag scale. In the eyes of the law and society in general though, a victim can only be seen as a victim when it's been proven in a court of law and someone has been prosecuted for victimising them.

    It's a sad story that there are so many genuine victims of rape who will never report it or never seek a conviction for their assailants. If the Gardaí and the judicial system are part of the problem then things seriously need to change. If it's a case that women are simply unwilling to pursue a prosecution for fear of reliving the ordeal - well then sadly it'll continue. Because the sociopaths who perpetrate the crime of rape will know they can get away with it.


  • #48
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    We don't have the rape shield laws, or advocates for the victim in court, those two plus dealing with the case in a timely fashion so it is not 3 years later before there is a court date will also help.


  • #49
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Just because the focus of this thread is on the victims doesn't mean there is lack of acknowledgement that false accusations can and do happen. I'm sure everyone here agrees false accusation of rape is a despicable and life-shattering thing to make.


  • #50
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Is there any merit to rape cases not being played out in public? Or any dangers to taking them out of public scrutiny? Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps, for the benefit or both the accusers and the accused, that these cases be anonymous to the press and public until a verdict is reached?


  • #51
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    That is how it is done, the accused name is not mentioned until they are convicted and the victims is with held unless they wish it known. These are the rules media outlets must abide by, but that doesn't stop friends family and local communities talking.

    Lavinia Kerwick was the first victim to wave her right to anonymity.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/sisters/agents-of-change.html
    In July 1992, William Conry, an 18-year-old man who had pleaded guilty to rape, walked free from court after the judge adjourned sentence for a year to “give him a chance”. The victim, Lavinia Kerwick, who was 19, sobbed and screamed that Conry had “got away with it”. She then did something that had never been done before. Kerwick sacrificed her anonymity in order to talk about the case, the first time a woman in Ireland who had been raped chose to do so. The controversy that followed did a great deal to change public attitudes to rape and criminal justice. Kerwick was subsequently hospitalised as a result of anorexia. In July 1992 she met with minister for justice Padraig Flynn who promised her that “what happened to me will never happen to any other woman in the future”. The Criminal Justice Bill which emerged a few months later allowed the DPP to appeal against what he considered unduly lenient sentences. It also instructed courts to consider the long-term impact of the crime on the victim. In July 1993, Conry was brought back to court for sentencing. He received a suspended sentence of nine years, again creating great distress for Kerwick.

    That was 20 years ago, at the time it was shocking and front page news, that she spoke about what happened to her. Unfortunately not enough has changed. Another brave woman did the same in 2007

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1219/shannonm.html?rss
    The Court of Criminal Appeal has ruled that a Central Criminal Court judge erred in principle when he imposed a non-custodial sentence on a man found guilty of rape.

    Mary Shannon, a 33-year-old mother of three, was raped as she slept in her bed in May 2005.

    She waived her right to anonymity after Adam Keane, from Barnageeha in Daragh, was initially given a three-year suspended sentence for the attack.

    He was later ordered to serve the sentence after making what the trial judge described as a 'triumphalist gesture' against Ms Shannon. Keane flicked a cigarette at Mary Shannon after both took the train home to Ennis after the original sentencing.

    Today, Keane had his sentence increased from three to ten years following an appeal from the DPP.

    In its 28-page written judgment the court found that the appeal of the leniency of the sentence by the DPP was well founded.

    It said that the well-established principle that a custodial sentence be handed down for the offence of rape should have been followed.

    The judgment also found that Mr Justice Paul Carney did not attach sufficient weight to the location and circumstances in which the rape took place.

    It stated that during sentencing there was no reference on the impact of the crime on the victim and her family also it says the fact she felt she was driven out of her own home appears to have been ignored by the trial judge.

    Ms Shannon was in court with her family when the judgment was handed down.

    Afterwards, Mary Shannon's sister, Sarah, said she was hopeful the case would insure that no other convicted rapist would walk from court without a custodial sentence.

    The Court suspended three years of the ten-year sentence. Adam Keane will be subject to one year's post-release supervision.


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  • #52
    RuthieC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 ✭RuthieC


    trying.... I am so sorry to hear your story. I understand never wanting to write of it again, but I hope you're allowing someone to help you. You can't do it on your own.

    I too was raped by a spiking, but with someone I knew and worked with on a daily basis. It has taken me 8 years to fully accept that what happened was rape. Only in the last few weeks of therapy have I been able to actually say the word 'rape' without mumbling it. It has destroyed my life thus far, but I won't let it destroy any more.

    I am working through all my demons, and let me tell you... 'dealing' with him is probably the last thing I'll do. I need to be strong for that. And I appreciate that no evidence remains, but reporting him may just scare him enough to never do it to someone else. But yes, 'dealing' with him is not always what the victim needs done first. Dealing with what has been left behind seems more important.

    I spent my life 'being careful' and ended up being raped by someone who saw me every single weekday. Someone who claimed that it was mutual sex, and told the office it was... thus making me second guess myself and blame myself. Let's start teaching people 'not to rape', 'not to abuse', 'not to just take what you want'. Let's start teaching ourselves that we are not to blame.

    As my therapist put it, in another court room his intent could be the difference between murder and manslaughter...


  • #53
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    There seems to be a lot of talk of 'victim blaming' but the last time I checked, rapists and sexual predators were a fairly ostracised group in society. Up there with murderers on the scumbag scale. In the eyes of the law and society in general though, a victim can only be seen as a victim when it's been proven in a court of law and someone has been prosecuted for victimising them.

    It's a sad story that there are so many genuine victims of rape who will never report it or never seek a conviction for their assailants. If the Gardaí and the judicial system are part of the problem then things seriously need to change. If it's a case that women are simply unwilling to pursue a prosecution for fear of reliving the ordeal - well then sadly it'll continue. Because the sociopaths who perpetrate the crime of rape will know they can get away with it.

    OK, but the latter is in large part a result of the former. If the Gardai were more professional in dealing with these cases, and the judicial system did not allow for slut shaming in court, and judges took sentencing more seriously, then victims might be more inclined to report rapes.


  • #54
    Piste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    One actual concrete practice that might help would be mandatory custodial sentencing for all rape cases, no mitigating factors. It's absolutely disgusting that anyone could escape prison time for rape.

    Anyone else have any ideas how we could make rape reporting easier for victims?

    I have to say in my experience I have never ever come across any victim-blaming when it comes to rape. Just about everyone I know views it as a very serious crime and would never have any sympathy for a rapist. That being said, it may be more of a reflection on the company I keep than society as a whole.


  • #55
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Going unreg for this..

    Was raped at 15, I knew the person who did it, so felt (and still feel) like I couldn't tell anyone as they all knew him. I had been flirting with him that summer, thought I was interested, but he followed me home one night and took control over me and anally raped in a park near my house despite my struggle and clear response of NO.

    Anyone I would have told, would have accused me of just having sex with him due to the fact i had seemed interested in him, but that was no excuse for that, he forced everything on me, I was a virgin and have never felt such pain. And the guilt and grief afterwards.

    5 years later I'm in a great relationship; new guy who doesn't know the person who did this to me, when I confided in him that I was raped he asked 'oh were you just really drunk like?'
    Don't get me wrong, my boyfriend is the sweetest most caring man I could wish for and when i explained the story was so kind and helpful to me.

    What was horrible though was this assumption from him and so many others that a girl who was raped was just that she was drunk and didn't know she was consenting, or that a girl will cry rape after having sex and regretting it.

    For these reasons I have only ever told 3 people, and it's a horrible thing to happen to anyone especially when you can't tell your friends about it :(


  • #56
    Kooli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Kooli


    A fabulous blog post about 'rape culture'

    http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html

    I'd advise you to read it to the end. It touches on victim-blaming and other myths about rape that perpetuate sexual violence against women.
    Powerful stuff (and, obviously, potentially triggering).


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    If the Gardai were more professional in dealing with these cases, and the judicial system did not allow for slut shaming in court, and judges took sentencing more seriously, then victims might be more inclined to report rapes.

    im not sure where the opinion that gardai are not professional in dealing with victims of rape/sexual assault has come from?

    any victim who has gone through with the reporting and subsequent court case, has only had praise for gardai, from anything i have heard.

    im just wondering, does anyone have experience with gardai not being professional in these cases?


  • #58
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    bubblypop wrote: »
    im not sure where the opinion that gardai are not professional in dealing with victims of rape/sexual assault has come from?

    any victim who has gone through with the reporting and subsequent court case, has only had praise for gardai, from anything i have heard.

    im just wondering, does anyone have experience with gardai not being professional in these cases?

    Yes in my case by asking advice from an off duty garda I did voluntary work with, he basically scoffed at my story and told me to get on with life.


  • #59
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Yes, twice in the space of 3 years and in two different counties.


  • #60
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/gangrape-woman-arrested-during-trial-following-overdose-3017017.html
    Gang-rape woman arrested during trial, following overdose

    A woman who alleged she was gang raped while pregnant was arrested and imprisoned during the trial because she refused to give evidence, it can now be revealed.

    During the trial the eastern European woman was made stand directly in front of the three accused and identify each one, a highly unusual practice. The next day she left a note for her partner saying she was so terrified she could not face coming to court again.

    When gardai tracked her down she was rushed to hospital after they found she had taken sleeping pills along with half a bottle of vodka.

    The trial was abandoned and she was brought before the court the next day in custody. She was kept in the holding cells for the day until a jury could be sworn in for a second trial.

    Last Wednesday the three men accused of raping her were acquitted by a jury after a two-week trial. The arrest of the woman could not be reported at the time because of the risk of prejudicing the proceedings.

    During the trial it was alleged the woman, who was three months pregnant at the time of the alleged rape, had vodka poured over her face, before the men took it in turns to rape her. She also claimed she had been urinated on and locked in a wardrobe.

    On the first day of evidence the woman was telling the court that she was trapped inside a wardrobe by some of the men before being taken downstairs and raped.

    There was some confusion in the Central Criminal Court as she tried to explain which of the men had done this to her. Mr Justice Paul Carney interrupted and told her she would have to go to the dock and point the men out. The visibly terrified woman was made stand in front of the accused men.

    After evidence finished for the day, a barrister in the case said privately that he was sure the woman was going to collapse during the ordeal.

    The woman, who now has an infant child, was due to continue her evidence the following morning. However when the court sat, Mr Justice Carney was told by prosecuting counsel that she could not be found and a warrant was requested for her arrest.

    Garda Stephen Kenny explained that they called at the woman's home at 8.30am and were told by her boyfriend that he woke up to find a note from her.

    "Don't be mad, I can't go today," the note read. "I'm terrified. I love you. I will be with my friends."

    Mr Justice Carney issued a warrant for her arrest and ordered that no discretion be used when executing it.

    "If she has to spend a long time in prison herself waiting for a re-trial that's her fault," he commented.

    Mr Justice Carney then told the jury: "The lady has chosen not to present herself today. I have issued a warrant for her arrest. There are three other cases awaiting trial. I don't have the mechanism to put you into cold storage so I will discharge you."

    The next day Gda Kenny told the court that his colleagues had returned to the woman's house the previous evening and found her in a drowsy state.

    She had drank half a bottle of vodka with an overdose of sleeping tablets and was rushed to hospital.

    At this stage the accuseds' defence counsel raised the issue of bail. Gda Kenny said he had serious concerns about them being released as they were considered a flight risk. Mr Justice Carney interrupted, noting there was still an outstanding warrant for the woman's arrest.

    Bail was refused for the men and the case was adjourned until the next morning. The woman was taken from hospital and brought before the court by gardai. The judge was told that she had been discharged from hospital and deemed fit to give evidence.

    Mr Justice Carney ordered that she be held in custody until she finished giving her evidence. She was taken down to the holding cells below the court where her alleged attackers were being held. A source in the prison service insisted that the parties were kept separate at all times.

    The woman spent the day in the cells until 2pm when Gda Kenny told Mr Justice Carney that he believed she would still turn up if she was released. Mr Justice Carney agreed to release her.

    Ellen O'Malley Dunlop of the Rape Crisis Centre criticised a trial process as making the complainants "feel they are the ones on trial and not the accused".

    "This system in our opinion is very imbalanced and needs radical reform. As a result Ireland has one of the highest attrition rates for rape and sexual assault cases in Europe," she said.

    "One of the main reasons for this high fallout rate is because complainants decide not to put themselves through what they say is a re-victimising experience of a court process."

    - Conor Gallagher


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  • #61
    Dolbert
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    Dear Lord. I am speechless :(
    Justice Carney has a history of seemingly being quite sympathetic to alleged rapists. I seem to recall another case of a woman being subjected to a 7 hour brutal assault, where he described it as a case of 'a young man losing control'


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