Would you keep a gun??

Seachmall · 01-02-2012 01:06PM

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

only rifles and shotguns are legal in ireland but you must have a license for them.

handguns [...] are only permitted for use by the army and Specially trained Cops

Handguns can be owned by private citizens.

44leto · 01-02-2012 01:08PM

Seachmall wrote: »

What exactly is a dangerous dog? A particular breed or a specific dog that has shown itself to be dangerous?

"
Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 place controls on 10 breeds of dogs namely the American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Doberman Pinscher; German Shepherd (Alsatian); Rhodesian Ridgeback; Rottweiler; Japanese Akita; Japanese Tosa and to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog).
The controls, which must be observed when the dog is in a public place, require that these dogs, or strains and crosses thereof, must be kept on a strong short lead [only up to 2 metres long] by a person over 16 years of age who is capable of controlling them. The dog/s must be securely muzzled too. Furthermore, the Control of Dogs Act 1986 gives specific powers to the courts to order that a dog, which the court considers dangerous, must be kept under proper control or be destroyed."

According to the law, but yes there is a degree of danger from any dog but again there are degrees of danger.

But that is off topic, I know it is impossible to live in a society with no guns, there will always be illegal ones and there will always be a need for some legally held ones, but I want the situation where these a few and far between and IMO sporting is still not a valid reason for owning a gun.

At this stage I am just going to agree to differ.

Odysseus · 01-02-2012 01:13PM

44leto wrote: »

Well you are using it as a weapon, to kill your prey and yes guns are safe till they are loaded, which of course doesn't take much effort. What happened in Tipperary the other day when a man opened fire on some Garda and Dundalk a few months ago when a man was murdered. In both these cases it was with legally held firearms, so no I don't agree, guns IMO are to dangerous and an impulsive weapon to be held by the citizenry.

So if a minority sport like shooting and hunting in this country suffers, so be it, I would rather that then have any kind of gun culture here.

Take up stamp collecting instead.

Maybe it's too dangerous for you, and you do not possess the ability to use a gun in a safe manner. So because the odd person go off the wall with a legally held firearm, not weapon, you think everybody else should suffer. In other words just because people like you are incapable of owning a sporting firearm, you think your generalisation should apply to everyone.

Thanfully, people like yourself have no real power in relation to this topic, so mine are safe. You more than likely don't even understand why I'm looking at getting another firearm. They are tools and hence are job specific, it would be illegal for me to shoot a deer with my rilfes, if I want to engage in that sport, I need a different gun.

Have you even fired a gun? Basic hysteria, have a look at the amount of legally owned firearms, we are not that much of a minority. Try controlling the illegal guns, that is where the real problem is.

Seachmall · 01-02-2012 01:14PM

44leto wrote: »

At this stage I am just going to agree to differ.

Seconded.

Probably the most brief and civil discussion I've had on such a controversial topic on boards in a long time.

Odysseus · 01-02-2012 01:58PM

Batsy wrote: »

I would keep a gun in my home to defend myself and my property from burglars or any other scumbag who shouldn't be in there.

You cannot possess a firearm for self-defense, as a private citizen I only possess my firearms for sporting reasons. Owning a gun for self denfense=watching too many movies.

homerhop · 01-02-2012 02:07PM

As for sporting, I do not think that is a valid reason for owning a gun

Ireland has some of the top ranking sportsmen/women in target shooting as well as clay shooting in the world. Every year Irish participants bring home gold silver and bronze medals both at European and International standard yet the media do not cover these people in the same way they do runners boxers etc. The level or training that goes into getting to this level is the same as that of any other "sport".To the uneducated its just a case of pointing the gun and shooting. for those that are involved it goes far beyond that.

Maximus Alexander · 01-02-2012 02:09PM

I would love to own a gun, but I probably never will. I like the idea of going to the shooting range on a weekly basis.

sbsquarepants · 01-02-2012 02:10PM

token101 wrote: »

Stabbings are usually very personal crimes. It takes a lot more effort and violent intent to stab someone than it does to point and squeeze your finger. You're not going to be able to walk into a built up area and stab 10 people at once unless you're some sort of demented ninja. How many times in the last 10 years has someone walked into a built up area and just started shooting randomly in the US? Countless. When was the last time that happened here? It might have happened in the UK once or twice, but they're notable cases because they are so rare, Dunblayne, Hungerford. Half the ones in the US don't even register anymore.

True, but you're forgetting one pertinent fact.
Yanks be crazy!
Their whole society is predicated on fear of people coming to get them and take away their "freedom" So they arm themsleves to the teeth and lock themselves away to protect this "freedom". There are more guns per capita in Canada and they very rarely go on killing sprees with them. The problem is the person pulling the trigger, not the trigger they pull. There will of course be a proportional rise in people being shot coupled with easier access to guns, but in the USA it seems way out of proportion to anywhere else.

sbsquarepants · 01-02-2012 02:16PM

44leto wrote: »

"
Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 place controls on 10 breeds of dogs namely the American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Doberman Pinscher; German Shepherd (Alsatian); Rhodesian Ridgeback; Rottweiler; Japanese Akita; Japanese Tosa and to every dog of the type commonly known as a Ban Dog (or Bandog).
.

Bit off topic but I find this list a bit extreme. Of the dogs listed, over the years i've had a dobberman, a couple of german shepherds, a rottweiller and a rhodesian ridgeback - they have all been pussy cats, particularly the ridgeback and the rottweiller. A lot of what makes them dangerous is down to how they are kept.

token101 · 01-02-2012 02:16PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

True, but you're forgetting one pertinent fact.
Yanks be crazy!
Their whole society is predicated on fear of people coming to get them and take away their "freedom" So they arm themsleves to the teeth and lock themselves away to protect this "freedom". There are more guns per capita in Canada and they very rarely go on killing sprees with them. The problem is the person pulling the trigger, not the trigger they pull. There will of course be a proportional rise in people being shot coupled with easier access to guns, but in the USA it seems way out of proportion to anywhere else.

Wouldn't that alone be enough to limit access where possible?

Local-womanizer · 01-02-2012 02:20PM

On the dog thing, I was talking with a guy who has 2 German Shepard guard dogs, one the size of a small horse!

He said he has worked with dogs all his life and was only bitten once, and it was by a Jack Russell....

token101 · 01-02-2012 02:21PM

Odysseus wrote: »

You cannot possess a firearm for self-defense, as a private citizen I only possess my firearms for sporting reasons. Owning a gun for self denfense=watching too many movies.

99.99% of people don't need a gun in Ireland for self defence. Anyone who says you do is the loony, paranoid type who shouldn't be left anywhere near weapons.

Seachmall · 01-02-2012 02:23PM

token101 wrote: »

Wouldn't that alone be enough to limit access where possible?

No, there is a balance to be met.

Knife crime could be massively curved if a ban on knife sales was enforced but that's obviously not going to happen, nor should it.

sbsquarepants · 01-02-2012 02:26PM

token101 wrote: »

Wouldn't that alone be enough to limit access where possible?

Of course it would.
I'm just saying that pointing to america and saying they're all shooting each other cos it's easy to get guns is not neccesarily accurate. They're shooting each other cos they're a messed up trigger happy society, the canadians have guns too, as do plenty of other countries. Most of them don't go half as crazy as the americans do with them.

Odysseus · 01-02-2012 02:26PM

token101 wrote: »

Wouldn't that alone be enough to limit access where possible?

Sure why no reduce road deaths by limiting peoples access to them. Only allow people to own a car if they have no access to public transport. Lots of sports include items rthat can be used as a weapon, should we ban them?

Better education is what is needed here.

Nothingbetter2d · 01-02-2012 02:28PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

True, but you're forgetting one pertinent fact.
Yanks be crazy!
Their whole society is predicated on fear of people coming to get them and take away their "freedom" So they arm themsleves to the teeth and lock themselves away to protect this "freedom". There are more guns per capita in Canada and they very rarely go on killing sprees with them. The problem is the person pulling the trigger, not the trigger they pull. There will of course be a proportional rise in people being shot coupled with easier access to guns, but in the USA it seems way out of proportion to anywhere else.

you forget the fact that the average canadian tends to be better educated than the average american.

Feisar · 01-02-2012 02:35PM

Some people seem to have an irrational fear of guns for some reason?

Why ban guns and have a "minority sport" suffer? Ireland partakes in shooting sports on an international level, it's not a few lads skulking around in the woods taking pot shots at targets.

Feisar · 01-02-2012 02:37PM

As an avid shooter I feel I shouldn't be able to just get a licence.

There should be some sort of formal training course and tests passed to qualify for gun ownership.

Gareth2011 · 01-02-2012 02:42PM

Bonesy. wrote: »

I didn't even know they were legal in Ireland. No don't really see the point.

A nice 7.62 rifle or a 9mm pistol or both

. Purely to keep certain people away from the door mind.

Odysseus · 01-02-2012 02:43PM

Feisar wrote: »

As an avid shooter I feel I shouldn't be able to just get a licence.

There should be some sort of formal training course and tests passed to qualify for gun ownership.

Which we have now, do you think the laws should be tightened even more? We have some of the strictist requirement in Europe AFAIK.

clashburke · 01-02-2012 02:43PM

44leto wrote: »

I am listening, pest control, is a valid reason for owning a gun, but according to the OP 215,000 households own a gun, I very much doubt all those guns are for shooting foxes. As for sporting, I do not think that is a valid reason for owning a gun. No more then I think you could own a dangerous dog, because you like dogs.

not everyone with a firearm uses it hunting/pest control.
i know vegans with firearms. they shoot clay pigeons and target sheets like thousand of others.

and to clarify its 215,000 legally held firearms not the amount of households with firearms. some peole could have 2,3,4,5 or 6 guns each.

harmoniums · 01-02-2012 02:46PM

I live in the USA.
I've got a very large collection of firearms, from ancient antiques through to modern automatics.
I've also got a CCW (a license to carry a pistol).
I used to carry all the time, then I remembered that I dont go to ghetto places.
I came to the conclusion that if I'm in a situation where I feel a need to be carrying, I should maybe re-evaluate why I'm there and reverse out of it rather quickly!

Weird thing, whilst I was carrying, I was way more conflict avoidey.
Had a few times where folks would mouth off, try to instigate a fight etc, I'd back off to the cat-calls of being a "b*tch" or "p*ssy" or what-not.
If I wasn't carrying, it would have been far easier to bait me into a physical altercation!

Anyway, one of my big interest is Irish related firearms. We used to have a few very fine gunmakers in this country, Rigby for example.

you can see some of my videos on Irish guns here

http://www.youtube.com/user/harmoniums/

I used to also make rifles commercially

Feisar · 01-02-2012 02:53PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Which we have now, do you think the laws should be tightened even more? We have some of the strictist requirement in Europe AFAIK.

I wasn't aware training and testing had to be done and passed before the granting of a licence.

I've no problem with strict, as long as it is fair and clear cut with no moving goal posts as regards requirements.

Superintendents making up their own mind on issues needs to stop.

clashburke · 01-02-2012 02:58PM

Feisar wrote: »

I wasn't aware training and testing had to be done and passed before the granting of a licence.

I've no problem with strict, as long as it is fair and clear cut with no moving goal posts as regards requirements.

there is a section on the appilication form Section 2.5 - Proof of Competence - in Possession, Use and Carriage of Firearm. New applicants must fill this section in

i was asked to do a competence course to get my first firearm.

Cass · 01-02-2012 03:08PM

woodoo wrote: »

Apparently there are 215,000 households in Ireland with a gun..

Wrong. I was reading the same nonsense this morning.

There are 215,000 firearm licenses. As each gun needs a license that means there are 215,000 guns. With people owning 2 or more guns that menas there could be a gun for every 50/60/100 households.

Sensationalist news reporting.

44leto wrote: »

My car is the most dangerous thing I own, but that has other uses as well, a gun has 1 primary use, to kill.

WRONG again. If i sought a gun and told the Gardai i wanted it for killing they would firstly refuse me, then have me locked up.

Target shooting is a huge sport around the world. Enjoyed by millions, and millions of people. But then again it gains more support when people spout off with buzz words like, "weapons", "kill", etc.:rolleyes:

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I'd love to own a Garand but sadly as I'm not a land owner or friendly with any farmers I'll never have the chance.

Join a shooting range. Great fun, and you don't need to know any land owners.

homerhop wrote: »

Ireland has some of the top ranking sportsmen/women in target shooting as well as clay shooting in the world. Every year Irish participants bring home gold silver and bronze medals both at European and International standard yet the media do not cover these people in the same way they do runners boxers etc. .

Cuple of years ago our target shooters brought back 26 medals from the world championships. No coverage, and papers even refused to report on the achievment.

Dervla O'Rouke coming 4th in some obscure race - well that warranted a full backpage spread. "Hey, congrats Dervla, you ALMOST won something".:rolleyes:

sbsquarepants wrote: »

......... cos they're a messed up trigger happy society, the canadians have guns too, as do plenty of other countries. Most of them don't go half as crazy as the americans do with them.

Nor does Ireland.

We have one of, if not the, strictest gun laws in the world. More so than Canada, but their laws are very close to ours.

We have no "right" to guns. We go through a 3 month vetting process including giving access to doctor's files on us, competency courses, safety courses, background checks, referees that must vouch for us, etc. We police ourselves to a higher standard than An Gardai, Defense forces, etc. This is reflected in shooting sports safety record.

So we do not have the right to "bear arms". Rather it is a privilege granted on us by the DoJ/An Gardai that can be withdrawn at any point if they deem necessary.

Legally held firearms account for a minimal to almost non-exitant amount of crime, suicides, etc in Ireland. Think about it. You apply for a drivers license. You get a provisional one, and can drive straight away. You fail your driving test you can drive away in that car.

We fail our competency course w do not get our license. A bad report from our doctor -we don't get our license. No-one to vouch for our character - we don't get our license. An Gardai background checks show ANYTHING - we don't get our licenses. We do ANYTHING when we have our licenses - we loose our licenses.

As a last word - thank feck i hear everyone saying - you will not get a gun for self defense in Ireland. You put that down on your application you do not get your license. Simples.

token101 · 01-02-2012 03:51PM

harmoniums wrote: »

I live in the USA.
I've got a very large collection of firearms, from ancient antiques through to modern automatics.
I've also got a CCW (a license to carry a pistol).
I used to carry all the time, then I remembered that I dont go to ghetto places.
I came to the conclusion that if I'm in a situation where I feel a need to be carrying, I should maybe re-evaluate why I'm there and reverse out of it rather quickly!

Weird thing, whilst I was carrying, I was way more conflict avoidey.
Had a few times where folks would mouth off, try to instigate a fight etc, I'd back off to the cat-calls of being a "b*tch" or "p*ssy" or what-not.
If I wasn't carrying, it would have been far easier to bait me into a physical altercation!

Anyway, one of my big interest is Irish related firearms. We used to have a few very fine gunmakers in this country, Rigby for example.

you can see some of my videos on Irish guns here

http://www.youtube.com/user/harmoniums/

I used to also make rifles commercially

You might be a stand up guy, what about some f***king arrogant wanker whose walking around with a pistol in his belt actively looking for trouble to show off his toy? Should I be in fear he may pull a concealed deadly weapon if I piss him off? Should I just carry around throwing stars just in case? It's not the wild west FFS. Society is supposed to protect itself by mitigating for these kind of f**kwits. People need cars. People need knives. People don't generally carry knives outside unless there's a very specific reason (ie a tradesmen), and if they do that's illegal (or should be if it isn't!!!!). Why do private citizens need to carry concealed guns in public? I can't honestly think of a single reason why in ordinary day to day life you would need a deadly weapon on your person.

Cass · 01-02-2012 03:56PM

token101 wrote: »

Why do private citizens need to carry concealed guns in public? .

Just to be clear to yourself and everyone ....................

harmoniums wrote: »

I live in the USA.

This is absolutely not possible in Ireland.

We have very strict laws about the transport of firearms, and how they must be secured when in transit, and no-one should have access to them not even the owner. As for concealed carry. Thats simply cannot, does not, and is not allowed.

Odysseus · 01-02-2012 03:56PM

token101 wrote: »

You might be a stand up guy, what about some f***king arrogant wanker whose walking around with a pistol in his belt actively looking for trouble to show off his toy? Should I be in fear he may pull a concealed deadly weapon if I piss him off? Should I just carry around throwing stars just in case? It's not the wild west FFS. Society is supposed to protect itself by mitigating for these kind of f**kwits. People need cars. People need knives. People don't generally carry knives outside unless there's a very specific reason (ie a tradesmen), and if they do that's illegal (or should be if it isn't!!!!). Why do private citizens need to carry concealed guns in public? I can't honestly think of a single reason why in ordinary day to day life you would need a deadly weapon on your person.

There is no such permit in Ireland, so it will never effect you. If it is legal where he lives, and he has been deemed fit to carry a concealed firearm that is his right.

token101 · 01-02-2012 04:03PM

Ezridax wrote: »

Wrong. I was reading the same nonsense this morning.

There are 215,000 firearm licenses. As each gun needs a license that means there are 215,000 guns. With people owning 2 or more guns that menas there could be a gun for every 50/60/100 households.

Sensationalist news reporting.

WRONG again. If i sought a gun and told the Gardai i wanted it for killing they would firstly refuse me, then have me locked up.

Target shooting is a huge sport around the world. Enjoyed by millions, and millions of people. But then again it gains more support when people spout off with buzz words like, "weapons", "kill", etc.:rolleyes:

Join a shooting range. Great fun, and you don't need to know any land owners.

Cuple of years ago our target shooters brought back 26 medals from the world championships. No coverage, and papers even refused to report on the achievment.

Dervla O'Rouke coming 4th in some obscure race - well that warranted a full backpage spread. "Hey, congrats Dervla, you ALMOST won something".:rolleyes:

Nor does Ireland.

We have one of, if not the, strictest gun laws in the world. More so than Canada, but their laws are very close to ours.

We have no "right" to guns. We go through a 3 month vetting process including giving access to doctor's files on us, competency courses, safety courses, background checks, referees that must vouch for us, etc. We police ourselves to a higher standard than An Gardai, Defense forces, etc. This is reflected in shooting sports safety record.

So we do not have the right to "bear arms". Rather it is a privilege granted on us by the DoJ/An Gardai that can be withdrawn at any point if they deem necessary.

Legally held firearms account for a minimal to almost non-exitant amount of crime, suicides, etc in Ireland. Think about it. You apply for a drivers license. You get a provisional one, and can drive straight away. You fail your driving test you can drive away in that car.
We fail our competency course w do not get our license. A bad report from our doctor -we don't get our license. No-one to vouch for our character - we don't get our license. An Gardai background checks show ANYTHING - we don't get our licenses. We do ANYTHING when we have our licenses - we loose our licenses.

As a last word - thank feck i hear everyone saying - you will not get a gun for self defense in Ireland. You put that down on your application you do not get your license. Simples.

I'm glad it's that strict though. I don't want it loosened. I like the idea of people having to go through a lot of hassle to get a gun. Makes me feel that someone must really f***ing hate me if they'll go to all that trouble to kill me and maybe I deserved it! I don't, however, like the idea of someone strolling into a supermarket, picking up a semi automatic and some 10c bullets, and coming back the next day/week to pick it up and strolling off into the sunset like Billy the Kid, only to feel a bit blue when they lose a job/get welfare cut/get divorced/crash into my car and go ape****.

I'd say the reason you got no coverage in the papers wasn't because they wanted to keep you out of the paper, it's because noone cares about shooting, just like they don't about a lot of other minority sports.

token101 · 01-02-2012 04:06PM

Odysseus wrote: »

There is no such permit in Ireland, so it will never effect you. If it is legal where he lives, and he has been deemed fit to carry a concealed firearm that is his right.

I know it's not legal in Ireland. I was asking a general question. It might be his 'right' but it's not right.

Would you keep a gun??

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