Whats the Point of Going To Work

Oranage2 · 26-01-2012 10:37AM

Blazer wrote: »

Welfare is bloody ridiculous at this stage..
I've a mate who's on social welfare as he lost his job about 2 years ago.....
Yes he's trying to get back to work but his chances of getting a job which pays more 30k a year with no qualifications is worse than slim to none.
This week he gave up the cigarettes, smoked 20 a day before that.
So he's saving money from that, yet he was able to get the nicorrette inhalers free on his medical card saving him about €70 a week....
It's ****in ridiculous :mad:...how many other people are doing this and screwing the normal joe soap out of proper medical care.
I was explaining this to him and he still didn't get it....his attitude was that he paid enough tax over the last 16 years to cover him. He just didn't get it that while he was working hard the scroungers were screwing him and the system.

To be honest I use to think welfare was too high and that the minimum wage was too high but I'm starting to see it's actually the cost of living thats far too high.

Why work 40 hours a week when your pay pack is going to be so heavily taxed that there's no actual point working, then when you want to spend the pittance you have left everything is so expensive plus there are all these hidden taxes like broadcast tax, bin tax, road tax, toll tax, 2% vat increase, the list is endless really.

Plazaman · 26-01-2012 10:55AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

To be honest I use to think welfare was too high and that the minimum wage was too high but I'm starting to see it's actually the cost of living thats far too high.

Wayyyy too high and even a first year economics student in Secondary School can grasp the fact that to have a healthy economy people need to spend spend spend however when they have no disposable income after paying for the essentials, what is there to spend. Therefore the economy dips, less revenue from taxes. Pity our current Government haven't the brain power to see this.

Wonder what would happen if they drastically reduced VAT for a year? We're borrowing billions anyway and repayments of bailout are going to be long (long) term.

the groutch · 26-01-2012 10:56AM

Garryiwhite2 wrote: »

With the crazy price of fuel is it worth going to work on an average wage. Its costing me 70 euros a week just to get to work, plus car tax and insurance. Also ware and tare on my Car. I am at the point of working does not pay over the dole. Time to take to the streets Folks.

sell the car, that kind of wage you need to get your priorities straight

AeoNGriM · 26-01-2012 11:05AM

Blazer wrote: »

Welfare is bloody ridiculous at this stage..
I've a mate who's on social welfare as he lost his job about 2 years ago.....
Yes he's trying to get back to work but his chances of getting a job which pays more 30k a year with no qualifications is worse than slim to none.
This week he gave up the cigarettes, smoked 20 a day before that.
So he's saving money from that, yet he was able to get the nicorrette inhalers free on his medical card saving him about €70 a week....
It's ****in ridiculous :mad:...how many other people are doing this and screwing the normal joe soap out of proper medical care.
I was explaining this to him and he still didn't get it....his attitude was that he paid enough tax over the last 16 years to cover him. He just didn't get it that while he was working hard the scroungers were screwing him and the system.

Your mate is a bit of a wally. He's had 2 years to get a qualification but he sits on his arse and expects a 30k a year job to land in his lap. I'd have had several high level certificates in that time and be re-skilled and looking for work.

stovelid · 26-01-2012 11:07AM

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Minimum wage in Ireland is 2nd highest in Europe, so their is no excuses.

And the cost of living here in relation to other countries?

duke916 · 26-01-2012 11:10AM

black francis wrote: »

So I guess the majority of people doesn't include your friend?

It must be nice for him that tax-payers will continue to fund his morals. I mean, we don't want him to feel like he's being used a cheap labour or anything.

I have sympathy for people who can't find work - but your friends attitude sums up everything that wrong with this country and the sense of Celtic Tiger entitlement which still seems to prevail.

Ridiculous statement to make ...now get off your high horse there.

People on the dole clearly cannot make ends meet and would grab a job with both hands however, to ask a person to work a 35+ hour week for an embarrassing €50 has nothing to do with morals. Im sure most people would love to upskill and re-train to get back into the job market but if the cost of travel to and from work is over and above this '€50' thus eating into their dole money which is already spent on bills etc, then how is this an incentive to motivate the unemployed.

Bang out of order there saying 'his friends attitude sums up everything wrong with the economy'. You're obviously confused about how and why the irish economy is in the state that its in.

....and im employed full time by the way, before you have another stab about the morals of the unemployed. Employers should at least cover the costs of travel since a lot of them have been cutting wages and playing the 'recession' record now for a long time.

Apanachi · 26-01-2012 11:14AM

Feck the fuel costs, my brother-in-law is a stay at home dad, because he can't afford to work, my sister has a good paying job, but they have 4 children, if my brother-in-law was to go to work, he'd end up paying more for childcare than he would earn, the system is screwed up...

jester77 · 26-01-2012 11:17AM

Blazer wrote: »

Welfare is bloody ridiculous at this stage..
I've a mate who's on social welfare as he lost his job about 2 years ago.....
Yes he's trying to get back to work but his chances of getting a job which pays more 30k a year with no qualifications is worse than slim to none.
This week he gave up the cigarettes, smoked 20 a day before that.
So he's saving money from that, yet he was able to get the nicorrette inhalers free on his medical card saving him about €70 a week....
It's ****in ridiculous :mad:...how many other people are doing this and screwing the normal joe soap out of proper medical care.
I was explaining this to him and he still didn't get it....his attitude was that he paid enough tax over the last 16 years to cover him. He just didn't get it that while he was working hard the scroungers were screwing him and the system.

Why on earth should anyone with zero qualifications get a job which pays anywhere near 30k? If you want that type of salary then you have to provide something to the employer that few people can, that's where training and acquiring skills come in. 2 years is more than enough time to acquire skills to attain that type of salary.

Plus he's not saving money by not smoking, what he is doing is not spending money

Oranage2 · 26-01-2012 11:24AM

black francis wrote: »

So I guess the majority of people doesn't include your friend?

It must be nice for him that tax-payers will continue to fund his morals. I mean, we don't want him to feel like he's being used a cheap labour or anything.

I have sympathy for people who can't find work - but your friends attitude sums up everything that wrong with this country and the sense of Celtic Tiger entitlement which still seems to prevail.

50 euro extra but how much will lunch, travel and work attire cost him?

Either you're attempting to troll or you're a little out of touch, we dont know his friends situation and the job bridge scheme basically sums up everything wrong with Ireland and the celtic tiger era !

Frank Black · 26-01-2012 11:25AM

duke916 wrote: »

People on the dole clearly cannot make ends meet and would grab a job with both hands however, to ask a person to work a 35+ hour week for an embarrassing €50 has nothing to do with morals. Im sure most people would love to upskill and re-train to get back into the job market but if the cost of travel to and from work is over and above this '€50' thus eating into their dole money which is already spent on bills etc, then how is this an incentive to motivate the unemployed.

Bang out of order there saying 'his friends attitude sums up everything wrong with the economy'. You're obviously confused about how and why the irish economy is in the state that its in.

.

You're right, far better to sit on his arse scratching himself at tax-payers expense than to get back in the job market and make a contribution to society.

Maybe if he had the necessary willingness to take on a job he could demonstrate his worth and would be earning more in a couple of years time?

Still, no, that would be stupid, too much risk to take - stay on the dole - far better solution.

CucaFace · 26-01-2012 11:44AM

The dole is there to offer people a buffer in order to survive whilst they go and find their next job, it is not there to be used as a lifestyle option.

So what if it pays only €50 extra then what they are getting from the dole, thats not the point and the sooner this government sorts out the types of people like black francis is talking about the better.

Far too long too many have used this free money (Our money) as a way to exist in a purely lazy way and the worst part of it many see it as their right to just exist living off the others in society who actually go out and work. If a guy doesn't want to go and work 35 hours a week for an extra €50 he is lazy and a scrounger. Sorry but that is the truth of the matter.

My own father who had his own business for the last 25 years which has now collapsed due to the recession is now working a minium wage job which he hates because he would rather do this then go on the dole.

This isn't directed at those who are ACTIVELY seeking work this is directed at those who are just happy to play the system (and all of us Tax payerswith it) for what it is worth.

What really gets to me is that everyone knows the state of the finances in this country and are so quick to point the finger of blame at the government, developers, everyone except themselves and cannot see their own part in it all where they happily drain the govenments tax funds which are badly needed eslewhere.

Nothingbetter2d · 26-01-2012 11:45AM

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

If your on the min wage then luxuries are sacrificed and those things like clothing, medical expenses, entertainment are one off and should be rationed within your budget.
Minimum wage in Ireland is 2nd highest in Europe, so their is no excuses.

cost of living in lreland is also alot higher than most other european countries.

mainly its rent/morgages utility bills & and fuel that makes it more expensive

al28283 · 26-01-2012 11:48AM

You should probably reassess your situation as you are clearly living beyond your means and there is no need for it. There is no need to take to the streets you just need some common sense and work out a better budget

_feedback_ · 26-01-2012 11:48AM

Have to laugh at people who say get rid of the car and use public transport. You obviously don't realise a massive amount of this country isn't serviced by public transport, in any decent way.

CucaFace · 26-01-2012 11:49AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

50 euro extra but how much will lunch, travel and work attire cost him?

Either you're attempting to troll or you're a little out of touch, we dont know his friends situation and the job bridge scheme basically sums up everything wrong with Ireland and the celtic tiger era !

So it's now our obligation to pay for this guys lunch, travel and clothes?

hardCopy · 26-01-2012 11:53AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

50 euro extra but how much will lunch, travel and work attire cost him?

Either you're attempting to troll or you're a little out of touch, we dont know his friends situation and the job bridge scheme basically sums up everything wrong with Ireland and the celtic tiger era !

Maybe they should cut the dole by €100 and give the jobbridge people an extra €150.

Win, win.

rOBeRt frETt · 26-01-2012 11:53AM

Garryiwhite2 wrote: »

With the crazy price of fuel is it worth going to work on an average wage. Its costing me 70 euros a week just to get to work, plus car tax and insurance. Also ware and tare on my Car. I am at the point of working does not pay over the dole. Time to take to the streets Folks.

I don't have a car (whinge) - but fail to see what taking to streets would do for the price of petrol

al28283 · 26-01-2012 11:58AM

elviscostello wrote: »

Have to laugh at people who say get rid of the car and use public transport. You obviously don't realise a massive amount of this country isn't serviced by public transport, in any decent way.

get a bike, cheaper car, carpool. Loadsa options really

Nothingbetter2d · 26-01-2012 12:03PM

rOBeRt frETt wrote: »

I don't have a car (whinge) - but fail to see what taking to streets would do for the price of petrol

it might be a good time to buy iranian oil and smuggle it into ireland then sell it to the yanks with a nice markup

_feedback_ · 26-01-2012 12:03PM

al28283 wrote: »

get a bike, cheaper car, carpool. Loadsa options really

Ha! Cycle 40km to work? Replacing a car costs money...

d-gal · 26-01-2012 12:08PM

al28283 wrote: »

elviscostello wrote: »

Have to laugh at people who say get rid of the car and use public transport. You obviously don't realise a massive amount of this country isn't serviced by public transport, in any decent way.

get a bike, cheaper car, carpool. Loadsa options really

100% agree, some people are so lazy. A lot of places you will get there quicker if you are on a bike coz of rush hour traffic.
I'm self employed and my own business is a 45min walk away or a 15min cycle. I don't own a car coz I can't afford one if I want to invest in my business and make it successful. It would take 20mins in a car if I was coming home at 5pm

pow wow · 26-01-2012 12:13PM

With so many high horses in here who cares about bikes?

rOBeRt frETt · 26-01-2012 12:15PM

Apanachi wrote: »

Feck the fuel costs, my brother-in-law is a stay at home dad, because he can't afford to work, my sister has a good paying job, but they have 4 children, if my brother-in-law was to go to work, he'd end up paying more for childcare than he would earn, the system is screwed up...

again- this is all relative to cost of living, my mam didn't work, my dad was semi skilled and they had seven children- we wanted for nothing, had a holiday every year (within Ireland mostly), went to public schools with music/drama/sports clubs after school (free).
my parents had a good social life and depended on local baby sitters from within our community. here are a couple of things my folks didn't have and as kids we didn't even notice.

a car
a phone
a tv subscription service
a house alarm
a video player
internet subscription

also- we didn't need to buy a lawn mower, ladders, a wheel barrow, various tools as the community organised everyone chipping in and buying one of each instead of say 600 lawnmowers (the lawnmower was mostly used by us kids for 'bob-a-jobs' for pocket money).

It's as much about community as it is about economics (more so in my opinion)

by the way I'm 34 and not 80

Frank Black · 26-01-2012 12:17PM

If you subtracted what I pay out in child-minding and travel expenses every month from my salary, I'd imagine I'm working a 40hour week for feck all more than social welfare.

I'd never use this as a reason to give up my job and sit on the dole though. Working gives you a sense of self-respect, provides opportunities to learn and meet new people and makes a positive contribution to society.

People, like that guy who won't take a job shouldn't be entitled to SW payments.

_feedback_ · 26-01-2012 12:22PM

d-gal wrote: »

100% agree, some people are so lazy. A lot of places you will get there quicker if you are on a bike coz of rush hour traffic.
I'm self employed and my own business is a 45min walk away or a 15min cycle. I don't own a car coz I can't afford one if I want to invest in my business and make it successful. It would take 20mins in a car if I was coming home at 5pm

That's fine for an urban dweller, but doesn't work outside of that scenario..

duke916 · 26-01-2012 12:27PM

black francis wrote: »

You're right, far better to sit on his arse scratching himself at tax-payers expense than to get back in the job market and make a contribution to society.

Maybe if he had the necessary willingness to take on a job he could demonstrate his worth and would be earning more in a couple of years time?

Still, no, that would be stupid, too much risk to take - stay on the dole - far better solution.

Completely missing my point. Id want nothing more than 0% unemployment in this country. On one hand we have the usual suspects - the long term unemployed who ARE the real scroungers of the system, who don't want to work, happy to bleed the taxpayer for a lazy lifestyle. As an idea their dole should be suspended or cancelled is a good one but, what about those who have worked all their lives, paid their taxes but recently lost their jobs over the last 2/3 years? You think these people are happy to sit around and 'scratch their arses' as you out it?

Fact is, there is a difference between wanting to work and the realistic economics of having to work. If you someone is on the dole with benefits, add ons and less stress etc than someone on minimum wage who wants to breaks their necks for practically nothing and never any money, then where is the incentive to work? The system has clearly said, that being on the dole is better than being on minimum wage. The reward between the unemployed and those on minimum wage is non-existent.

Frank Black · 26-01-2012 12:31PM

duke916 wrote: »

Completely missing my point. Id want nothing more than 0% unemployment in this country. On one hand we have the usual suspects - the long term unemployed who ARE the real scroungers of the system, who don't want to work, happy to bleed the taxpayer for a lazy lifestyle. As an idea their dole should be suspended or cancelled is a good one but, what about those who have worked all their lives, paid their taxes but recently lost their jobs over the last 2/3 years? You think these people are happy to sit around and 'scratch their arses' as you out it?

Fact is, there is a difference between wanting to work and the realistic economics of having to work. If you someone is on the dole with benefits, add ons and less stress etc than someone on minimum wage who wants to breaks their necks for practically nothing and never any money, then where is the incentive to work? The system has clearly said, that being on the dole is better than being on minimum wage. The reward between the unemployed and those on minimum wage is non-existent.

If anyone's missing the point it's you - I suggest you go back and read the relevant posts again.

We're talking about someone who's turned down gainful employment because it's 'only' €50 more a week than he get's on the dole.

Orando Broom · 26-01-2012 12:35PM

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

If your on the min wage then luxuries are sacrificed and those things like clothing, medical expenses, entertainment are one off and should be rationed within your budget.
Minimum wage in Ireland is 2nd highest in Europe, so their is no excuses.

Where are you on the scale. let's say 0 is on the dole; No.1 is minimum wage and 10 is 100k or higher.

Oranage2 · 26-01-2012 12:55PM

CucaFace wrote: »

So it's now our obligation to pay for this guys lunch, travel and clothes?

So what you suggest that we sent all these people to work as slaves were they have to walk to work in raggy clothes and not fed?

rOBeRt frETt · 26-01-2012 01:09PM

Orando Broom wrote: »

Where are you on the scale. let's say 0 is on the dole; No.1 is minimum wage and 10 is 100k or higher.

I was on minimum wage when I was a teen- it paid for beers and clothes and stuff.
I have a house and kids now- would I work for minimum wage? or sign on the dole and pull every stunt known to man.....hmmmm decisions, desicions

Whats the Point of Going To Work

Comments