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Garda Reserve to Full-Time (see Moderator note in post#72)

245

Comments

  • #32
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    ZoneAlarm wrote: »
    Nobody knows what will change with this government, they are out to make a savings and cutting corners no matter what, if they can do in-house recruitment in the uk from specials to Constables, they can do it here no matter what Hq tell you or me, decisions are taken much higher up the food chain.


    At present there is an age limit for reserves of 35 and you suggested in previous post there wasnt because you regarded it as 'promotion' which it clearly isnt,we'll agree to disagree.
    As a future reserve I'd love it to be solely in-house recruitment because your competing with about 1000 people instead of couple of hundred thousand but I'm not a person who just believes what he wants to believe.If your a reserve you'll argue all day for in house recruitment,if your a non reserve you'll argue all day for an open competition,that's simply it.In house recruitment if it ever happens is a long way off imo.


  • #33
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    footprints wrote: »
    At present there is an age limit for reserves of 35 and you suggested in previous post there wasnt because you regarded it as 'promotion' which it clearly isnt,we'll agree to disagree.
    As a future reserve I'd love it to be solely in-house recruitment because your competing with about 1000 people instead of couple of hundred thousand but I'm not a person who just believes what he wants to believe.If your a reserve you'll argue all day for in house recruitment,if your a non reserve you'll argue all day for an open competition,that's simply it.In house recruitment if it ever happens is a long way off imo.

    There is no age restriction on Reserve garda joining only full time members.

    Conditions for Entry to the Garda Reserve

    Members of the Garda Reserve will serve on a voluntary unpaid basis and not as employees.

    Entry to the Garda Reserve is governed by the Garda Síochána (Reserve Members) Regulations, 2006.
    The Garda Commissioner may not recruit a person for admission as a reserve trainee unless the following requirements are met:
    (1) the Garda Commissioner is satisfied that the person is of good character;
    (2) the person, for the purposes of paragraph (3), supplies to a registered medical practitioner nominated by the Garda Commissioner a medical certificate in such form as that practitioner may determine, detailing the person’s medical history for the previous 5 years;
    (3) the person is certified by that registered medical practitioner to be in good health, of sound constitution and fitted physically and mentally to perform the duties of a reserve member;
    (4) the person is not less than 18, but under 60, years of age when commencing the prescribed training;


  • #34
    P.C.Plod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭P.C.Plod


    There is no age restrictions for reserves. Well its different to full time. As alarmzone stated above. I have friends that joined and where too old for full time. They wanted the experience and love it. Regret everyday they didn't apply for full time


  • #35
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    ZoneAlarm wrote: »
    There is no age restriction on Reserve garda joining only full time members.

    Conditions for Entry to the Garda Reserve

    Members of the Garda Reserve will serve on a voluntary unpaid basis and not as employees.

    Entry to the Garda Reserve is governed by the Garda Síochána (Reserve Members) Regulations, 2006.
    The Garda Commissioner may not recruit a person for admission as a reserve trainee unless the following requirements are met:
    (1) the Garda Commissioner is satisfied that the person is of good character;
    (2) the person, for the purposes of paragraph (3), supplies to a registered medical practitioner nominated by the Garda Commissioner a medical certificate in such form as that practitioner may determine, detailing the person’s medical history for the previous 5 years;
    (3) the person is certified by that registered medical practitioner to be in good health, of sound constitution and fitted physically and mentally to perform the duties of a reserve member;
    (4) the person is not less than 18, but under 60, years of age when commencing the prescribed training;

    What's your point??
    Thats conditions for entry to Garda Reserve,our debate was whether or not age limit of 35 applies to reserves applying for full time.Age limit of 35 still applies to everybody applying for full time.I told you to ring Garda HQ if you wanted verification of that fact but you ignored it.


  • #36
    P.C.Plod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭P.C.Plod


    footprints wrote: »
    What's your point??
    Thats conditions for entry to Garda Reserve,our debate was whether or not age limit of 35 applies to reserves applying for full time.Age limit of 35 still applies to everybody applying for full time.I told you to ring Garda HQ if you wanted verification of that fact but you ignored it.

    I misread, thought you were saying you cant join reserves if you are over 35.
    Age limit of 35 applies to everyone applying to full time position. Being a reserve as it stands makes you no different to anybody else.
    Same rules and same process applies to everyone that wants to join


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  • #37
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    Exactly PCPlod,this debate started when ZA said there was no age restriction for the 'promotion' of reserve to full timer but as you said also there is.


  • #38
    bluetop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    footprints wrote: »
    At present there is an age limit for reserves of 35 and you suggested in previous post there wasnt because you regarded it as 'promotion' which it clearly isnt,we'll agree to disagree.

    My take on your post would be that you are saying there is an age limit for reserves clearly this is not true from other posts above


  • #39
    hobby bobby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭hobby bobby


    I can see the point Zonealarm is making Garda Reserve is the lowest rank of AGS - but garda reserve is a rank in AGS structure so technically all reserve members are looking for promotion in rank, even though a reserve may still have to win this promotion through open competition via public jobs the reserve is a member of AGS. Any reserve member under 35 years when joining AGS and now over 35 I think would have a good argument with regards to still being able to apply for full time. I have asked this question to the minister and he won't confirm or deny this issue.. what he did say was that in 2006 legislation was introduced to allow public appointments to give favour to any reserve member with satisfactory service done. It's a bit vague but it's hope.


  • #40
    WilcoOut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭WilcoOut


    hobby bobby wrote: »

    what he did say was that in 2006 legislation was introduced to allow public appointments to give favour to any reserve member with satisfactory service done. It's a bit vague but it's hope.

    its a step in the right direction

    Reserve Gardai have earned the right to become a fulltime member more than anyone

    and they should be rewarded in the future


  • #41
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    bluetop wrote: »
    My take on your post would be that you are saying there is an age limit for reserves clearly this is not true from other posts above


    Yes,but if you look back at previous page ZA said there was no age barrier for Reserve becoming full timer and I replied there clearly is.That post of mine that you quoted does appear incorrect but in context of that debate is correct.Its old news now anyway..time to move on from it,worn out at this stage.


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    i dont believe for one minute that future recruits to An Garda Siochana should come only from the Garda Reserve!
    to exclude hundreds of thousands of people just because they were not/ could not be a member of the reserve is crazy!!

    everyone, ordinary civilians and reserves should go through the same application procedure, obviously the fact that someone had served in the reserve would be a major advantage to them. i dont believe that just because someone could not be a member of the reserve should stand in their way, in any way, to applying for a full time position.


  • #43
    WilcoOut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭WilcoOut


    thats why you will hve to become a reserve member to become a fulltime member

    you will have to give up your time voluntary to assist the fultimers for a period and earn the right to wear that uniform, just like reserves have done already

    i think it will attract a better candidate


  • #44
    hobby bobby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭hobby bobby


    I must strongly disagree with you bubbly pop but welcome to this discussion. Garda Reserve program is a ready made filter process for pending full time selection and every Garda Reserve "in my opinion" has won the right to be considered ahead of any other. The quality of Garda reserve recruit has " in my opinion " also got stronger due to the quality of applicants who now see the reserve role as the best route forward. What i mean by this is that initially older people would have joined the reserve with no chance of full time option But the age of recruit now is probably average mid 20s. Prior to the set up of the Garda Reserve I would strongly agree with you but not anymore. But you may be right who knows


  • #45
    bluetop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    bubblypop wrote: »
    i dont believe for one minute that future recruits to An Garda Siochana should come only from the Garda Reserve!
    to exclude hundreds of thousands of people just because they were not/ could not be a member of the reserve is crazy!!

    everyone, ordinary civilians and reserves should go through the same application procedure, obviously the fact that someone had served in the reserve would be a major advantage to them. i dont believe that just because someone could not be a member of the reserve should stand in their way, in any way, to applying for a full time position.

    And what is stopping you and the others that are on the panel from getting of there rear end and joining, people that have joined the reserves to me have taken the initiative and actually done something, and have not sat on there behinds doing nothing, so i would also be of the opinion that they should have the first crack of the whip.

    It works out at 4 measly hrs a week, are you telling me you and the rest of them sitting on their hands cant commit to this, load of bull, i do hope people in the know are reading this ask these people the same question, and i also think that the people on the panel that are sitting on their arses reading this do get left behind in place of the serving reserves, that are doing a great job out their, that are doing the walk and not the talk they are doing in here.


  • #46
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    When there is a recruitment campaign in a few years and say they look for 300 people,they aren't going to take in 300 Reserves put them through the full time course and at same time recruit 300 reserves to replace ones that entered full time.Some reserves will be successful as will non reserves.
    The Govt. or AGS have never even suggested in house recruitment,some reserves on boards point to the UK for their hope of in house recruitment but choose to forget specials have been in existence there for decades,have more powers,can patrol on their own.If we are going to be same as UK should reserves not be around for decades and have more powers?Reserves have only been here a few years.
    Im joining reserves as I hope it will help me join full time but it wont be a reserve only competition.


  • #47
    bluetop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Ok first off how long does it take to train a Reserve, and how long does it take to train a full timer, so yes they could take 300 in from the reserves, remember some of these have some training under their belt some with up to 6 yrs on the job training, now take a new guy no training whatsoever, no on the job training who is going to take longer to train.

    So they could easily take 300 in from reserves, and still manage to train 300 more on weekends like they are doing now, by the time they are trained the first lot of 300 will only be in their first year, the new reserves will be on the street in on the job training so to speak, so its so so simple, it was done before the moratorium, with no problems and could recommence in the morning should they so wish

    Regardless of whether it has been suggested is that an obstacle for them nope its not, and because something in the Uk has been there for years or not means nothing, as for more powers, that is in the pipe line for this year, so changes are a foot, so nothing is written in stone, anything can happen between now and the start of recruitment in prob early 2015


  • #48
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    The duration of the new training course and expense will be the same whether you are a reserve or not...I cant see financially how they will have the funding at the same time for the training of 300 reserves to replace the 300 former reserves in the college now training for full time,that's just my opinion.
    Also,I cant see new powers for reserves this year because when I was onto garda reserve office I asked that very same question..they weren't aware of any new powers(not ruling it out or in) but said training course for this year would be the same.Surely,if new powers were to be introduced this year training course would change to reflect that.


  • #49
    ais2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭ais2012


    footprints wrote: »
    The duration of the new training course and expense will be the same whether you are a reserve or not...I cant see financially how they will have the funding at the same time for the training of 300 reserves to replace the 300 former reserves in the college now training for full time,that's just my opinion.
    Also,I cant see new powers for reserves this year because when I was onto garda reserve office I asked that very same question..they weren't aware of any new powers(not ruling it out or in) but said training course for this year would be the same.Surely,if new powers were to be introduced this year training course would change to reflect that.

    Hi!!!
    Im a reserve. The word down in templemore is we are getting powers under the public order act, iv a friend that was down a few weeks ago and he was told by the training officer.
    Problem is we have no powers at the minute for public order which is ridiculous as most of us work when its busy (e.g. Saturday nights!!) if something goes wrong we can only arrest under sec.4 of criminal justice act which is basically a citizens arrest!!!! useless! so they've no choice really.
    Also.... they've started doing phase2 over a 2week period. so your basically in the college for two weeks straight. Thank god that wasn't in when i was training because i work full time.


  • #50
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    ais2012 wrote: »
    Hi!!!
    Im a reserve. The word down in templemore is we are getting powers under the public order act, iv a friend that was down a few weeks ago and he was told by the training officer.
    Problem is we have no powers at the minute for public order which is ridiculous as most of us work when its busy (e.g. Saturday nights!!) if something goes wrong we can only arrest under sec.4 of criminal justice act which is basically a citizens arrest!!!! useless! so they've no choice really.
    Also.... they've started doing phase2 over a 2week period. so your basically in the college for two weeks straight. Thank god that wasn't in when i was training because i work full time.


    Thanks for that info,hope Reserves do get powers!


  • #51
    blueforce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭blueforce


    Recruitment opens back up to everyone. First question from the interviewers mouth is,

    "Did you join the Reserve?" Yes..........great, how did you handle this, this and this.

    "Did you join the Reserve?"No........ "Why?".........................................

    Can anyone who hopes to join full time and is not in the reserve answer fill in the blank above. Better to do it here then sitting infront of a Super and a civil servant.

    ais2012, are you sure they are doing phase 2 over a 2 week period? The cost to the college would be huge seeing as they'll have to feed everyone and also I dont think anyone would be willing to go down for that long if they have a full time job.


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bluetop wrote: »
    And what is stopping you and the others that are on the panel from getting of there rear end and joining, people that have joined the reserves to me have taken the initiative and actually done something, and have not sat on there behinds doing nothing, so i would also be of the opinion that they should have the first crack of the whip.

    It works out at 4 measly hrs a week, are you telling me you and the rest of them sitting on their hands cant commit to this, load of bull, i do hope people in the know are reading this ask these people the same question, and i also think that the people on the panel that are sitting on their arses reading this do get left behind in place of the serving reserves, that are doing a great job out their, that are doing the walk and not the talk they are doing in here.

    well firstly, wow! bit insulting dont you think? im lazy and sitting on my hands?
    not true.

    i was merely saying that although being a reserve obviously will be a major advantage in applying for full-time it should not be mandatory.

    what about the thousands of people who have left this country as they cannot find work here? do you think in future they should be excluded from any competition just because they were forced to emigrate?
    im sure a lot of people would love to come back, and perhaps they would make fine members.

    maybe there are people out there who, after working a 40 hour week and paying for childcare for 50 hours a week jut cannot afford to do a 'measly' 4 hours voluntarily on a weekend night.

    obviously reserves will stand a greater chance of being succesful, but i for one dont believe that not being a reserve should stand in anyones way to applying for a full-time position.


  • #53
    footprints
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭footprints


    blueforce wrote: »
    Recruitment opens back up to everyone. First question from the interviewers mouth is,

    "Did you join the Reserve?" Yes..........great, how did you handle this, this and this.

    "Did you join the Reserve?"No........ "Why?".........................................

    Can anyone who hopes to join full time and is not in the reserve answer fill in the blank above. Better to do it here then sitting infront of a Super and a civil servant.

    Reserves will only represent a minority of successful applicants in a future competition because with 1000 reserves applying for example they'll only be a fraction of the hundreds of thousands applying.Reserves experience will stand to you but I wouldn't get carried away with it.
    Garda mates I tell I'm hoping to join AGS tell me you'd 'want to be best mates with Shatter' to get in with the level of competiton there'll be,hope that isnt the case but wouldnt surprise me if it is,some how I dont think all positions will be gained fairly.


  • #54
    ais2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭ais2012


    blueforce wrote: »
    Recruitment opens back up to everyone. First question from the interviewers mouth is,

    "Did you join the Reserve?" Yes..........great, how did you handle this, this and this.

    "Did you join the Reserve?"No........ "Why?".........................................

    Can anyone who hopes to join full time and is not in the reserve answer fill in the blank above. Better to do it here then sitting infront of a Super and a civil servant.

    ais2012, are you sure they are doing phase 2 over a 2 week period? The cost to the college would be huge seeing as they'll have to feed everyone and also I dont think anyone would be willing to go down for that long if they have a full time job.

    unfortunately so, my friend is going down in feb for two weeks. phase 2 is basically all law. now keep in mind they are paying very senior members to teach these classes weekends and evenings... they have to weigh up which is cheaper and id say putting them all in a classroom together, having one lecturer and feeding them would be cheaper than paying two guys from each district to teach two or three people...
    sorry can i also say.... i work damn hard with the gardai... you'll find very few reserves go in for only 4hours a week. If i go in i do a full shift because its not worth my while driving 35miles for four hours. I work mon-fri 9-6 then i work a sat night 8.00pm-4.00am with the gardai. Im not looking for a medal but im working so hard because this is what i want. I think reserves should get preference even though i know we wont.


  • #55
    blueforce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭blueforce


    bubblypop, im not being smart here or anything but its the Gardai we are talking about joining. Moral is at an all time low, funding for nearly everything has been slashed, benefits are nearly all gone, cars arent being replaced, training just isnt happening. And it doesnt look like things will get any better.

    If people cant afford to give up the 4hr min a week, then how do they expect to join full time. The pay is poor and the hours are terrible, can you imagine working a week of nights. Your right, no one should be excluded, but unfortunitly the guards isnt something you just join and then quiet after a few years because its not for you. Its not like working in a shop, its a huge commitment. The reserves is a brilliant inside into what its like and the conditions the lads put up with. Id say there are people who were mad to join the guards full time, got into the reserves and realised that it just wasnt what they expected and not for them.


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    people that may not be able to afford to give 4 hours voluntarily would be giving up whatever job they are doing and working full time for the Gardai, you see? swopping one full-time job for another.

    look, i agree that reserves will obviously have a better chance than people not in the reserves, im merely saying that NOT being a reserve should never stand against you. and yes, they will ask the question but so what? as long as you can give a good reason as to why you were not in the reserves, im sure the interviewers will take that into account.

    and like i said, a lot of people have emigrated, should that stand in their way?


  • #57
    blueforce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭blueforce


    ais2012 wrote: »
    unfortunately so, my friend is going down in feb for two weeks. phase 2 is basically all law. now keep in mind they are paying very senior members to teach these classes weekends and evenings... they have to weigh up which is cheaper and id say putting them all in a classroom together, having one lecturer and feeding them would be cheaper than paying two guys from each district to teach two or three people...
    sorry can i also say.... i work damn hard with the gardai... you'll find very few reserves go in for only 4hours a week. If i go in i do a full shift because its not worth my while driving 35miles for four hours. I work mon-fri 9-6 then i work a sat night 8.00pm-4.00am with the gardai. Im not looking for a medal but im working so hard because this is what i want. I think reserves should get preference even though i know we wont.


    It just doesnt add up though, your training sergeant is being paid anyway to teach you for 2/3 days a week in the evening when it suits everyone. im highly suspicious to be honest


  • #58
    blueforce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭blueforce


    bubblypop wrote: »
    people that may not be able to afford to give 4 hours voluntarily would be giving up whatever job they are doing and working full time for the Gardai, you see? swopping one full-time job for another.

    look, i agree that reserves will obviously have a better chance than people not in the reserves, im merely saying that NOT being a reserve should never stand against you. and yes, they will ask the question but so what? as long as you can give a good reason as to why you were not in the reserves, im sure the interviewers will take that into account.

    and like i said, a lot of people have emigrated, should that stand in their way?

    bubblypop, i dont think you understand where im coming from. Its not as simple as moving from one full time job to another. You dont instantly go into the Gardai on €50,000+. You have to do 22 weeks of training, you live in Templemore from Monday to Friday and are paid something like €120 a week. I think the starting pay for a student coming out of Templemore was around €26,000 before being attested.


  • #59
    ais2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭ais2012


    blueforce wrote: »
    It just doesnt add up though, your training sergeant is being paid anyway to teach you for 2/3 days a week in the evening when it suits everyone. im highly suspicious to be honest

    No need for suspicion. Its cheaper.
    They are getting rid of the training srgts in each district and bringing the whole class together with one tutor. Have you any idea how much these T/O's are being paid? Two in each district? And they might only have two or three students to teach. It was a waste of money. Period.


  • #60
    ais2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭ais2012


    blueforce wrote: »
    bubblypop, i dont think you understand where im coming from. Its not as simple as moving from one full time job to another. You dont instantly go into the Gardai on €50,000+. You have to do 22 weeks of training, you live in Templemore from Monday to Friday and are paid something like €120 a week. I think the starting pay for a student coming out of Templemore was around €26,000 before being attested.
    your paid 194.00 a week as a student during phase 1 & 3 and on phase 2 (when your on your six month training at a station) you get 194.00 + 134.00 for accommodation.


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  • #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    blueforce wrote: »
    bubblypop, i dont think you understand where im coming from. Its not as simple as moving from one full time job to another. You dont instantly go into the Gardai on €50,000+. You have to do 22 weeks of training, you live in Templemore from Monday to Friday and are paid something like €120 a week. I think the starting pay for a student coming out of Templemore was around €26,000 before being attested.

    im well aware of the training and salary provided through it all actually.
    there is a lot of difference for someone who is currrently working full-time to voluntarily working for 4 hours and actually committing to a new job, fully aware of all that goes with it.

    training lasts( well up till now) 15 months as a student, some people just couldnt commit to 4 hours voluntarily indefinately.

    i just find it a bit of an elitist attitude to presume some people should be excluded from applying just because they have not been in the reserve.


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