Crisp wrapper blockage killed family

cynder · 29-12-2011 03:03PM

So sad,

The other day i threw a crisp packet in the fire and it got sucked up, it was only a small one, jeez i'll be more careful the next time. Accidents happen, no one was to know that the crisp packet would block off the vents.

Poor kids and dad, i cried all the way through the news report... A very tragic accident....

DoneDL · 29-12-2011 03:03PM

peasant wrote: »

Bit tricky, that one.
Carbon monoxide is heavy (-er than normal air) and usually builds up in a pool on the floor, rising slowly ...whereas smoke detectors usually are on the ceiling because smoke rises.

Sorry its not.

Gas Specific Gravity
Air 1.000,
Carbon monoxide - CO 0.9667

Saila · 29-12-2011 03:06PM

here's the article in the OP btw.

Crisp wrapper blockage killed family

Thursday, 29 December 2011

A plastic crisp wrapper thrown on to the dying embers of a fire caused the deaths of a father and his two children, Irish investigators now believe.
Trevor Wallwork, his daughter Kimberley (12) and his son Harry (9) were found dead at their home outside the south Sligo village of Gurteen 12 days ago.
It has been learned that a large plastic wrapper from a crisp multi-pack caused a blockage and sent the deadly fumes into the living room where the family was watching television.
Mr Wallwork (50) was found dead on a chair and his children were found lying on the floor. Kimberley was beside a Christmas list she had written, detailing presents she planned to buy.
Gardai and fire officers spent almost three days investigating the deaths. A post mortem found all three had died from carbon monoxide poisoning.
One source confirmed: "The investigators have looked at every aspect of this incident and believe the Wallworks were killed by fumes from the fire in the living room - and that those fumes were caused by a blockage in the chimney created by a plastic crisp wrapper."
Fresh details of the incident emerged last night as 400 people gathered for a memorial service for the family in Sligo. The children's stepmother Susan made the short journey from Sligo General Hospital - where she is being treated for cancer - to the chapel at Nazareth House for last night's service.
She sat just a few feet from the coffin of her husband and the two white coffins of her stepchildren during the service conducted by the parish priest of Gurteen, Fr Joe Caufield and Methodist Minister Stephen Taylor.
Holding her hand was her daughter Vicky, who had found the bodies at the family home in the townland of Moygara.
Three of Mr Wallwork's brothers travelled from Lancashire for the service and one of them, Charlie, thanked locals for their support in recent days.
"Having met the people of Gurteen, I can now understand why Trevor settled in this community," he said.
Kevin Gallagher, principal of Mullaghroe National School where Harry and Kim were pupils, shook with emotion as he described how they had contributed to life there.
Harry, he said, had become an accomplished bodhran player.
"A couple of weeks ago the teacher remarked that Harry was a natural player. Harry heard this and his face just lit up with pride," said Mr Gallagher.
His sister was always looking out for him, making sure he had everything he needed.
"A few weeks ago Sligo Rovers brought the FAI Cup to the school and the first picture taken on the new school camera was of Kimberley and Harry lifting the cup.
"I was going to give the picture to Kimberley as a present when she left the school next year but now it will take pride of place in the school instead.
"Kimberley told me that she lived at 'Forget me Not' cottage. This is so apt because I will never forget her and Harry."
School friends of the children read prayers and mourners heard Fr Caufield say that "an accident so simple" had plunged "their nearest and dearest, family and friends into darkness".
The memorial service ended with the Gurteen choir singing Silent Night as mourners signed a book of condolences.
The Wallworks will be taken to England in two weeks for burial.
Gardai now believe their deaths were accidental but will not make a statement until toxicology reports on the bodies are returned.

44leto · 29-12-2011 03:15PM

peasant wrote: »

Bit tricky, that one.
Carbon monoxide is heavy (-er than normal air) and usually builds up in a pool on the floor, rising slowly ...whereas smoke detectors usually are on the ceiling because smoke rises.

Good to know and thanks for the info.

EDIT just seen another post. So a dual alarm may be possible, I need to research it a little more.

sligono1 · 29-12-2011 04:27PM

Saila wrote: »

here's the article in the OP btw.

after reading that article how can you not but feel the tragedy and sadness of this fire.
so explain besides trolling why have you made your comments in your first three posts in this thread,this has really annoyed me today,

soterpisc · 29-12-2011 04:28PM

jcf wrote: »

How the hell did this manage to block the fumes and redirect them to the living room ??

surely it would shrivel up and burn ?

or was it the fumes from the plastic itself that killed them ?

you obviously don't see the dangers with burning rubbish at home!!. Fires are only for burning solid fuel, Coal, Turf etc.. Its not for anything else. The plastic wrapper was probably thrown in the fire and got sucked up the chimney.

People today are so lax when it comes to open fires.

Johnny Foreigner · 29-12-2011 05:39PM

dubtom wrote: »

A plastic crisp wrapper thrown on to the dying embers of a fire caused the deaths of a father and his two children, Irish investigators now believe.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/crisp-wrapper-blockage-killed-family-16096512.html#ixzz1hvZV6uqDhttp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/crisp-wrapper-blockage-killed-family-16096512.html

This is shocking, how something so simple as a crisp packet could kill those poor people. I'm constantly telling my Wife,who is a compulsive fire messer,to stay away from it.

If there was a God, he wouldn't allow this to happen.
This is why I am an Atheist.

Ally Dick · 29-12-2011 05:42PM

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

What a horrible thing to say

Da Shins Kelly · 29-12-2011 05:47PM

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

What the bloody hell is wrong with you?

mikom · 29-12-2011 05:50PM

Saila wrote: »

my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

One who can't pay their bin charges...... probably.

Aoifey! · 29-12-2011 05:52PM

Wow, just shows how easily things like this can happen.

RIP

vicwatson · 29-12-2011 05:55PM

DoneDL wrote: »

Sorry its not.

Gas Specific Gravity
Air 1.000,
Carbon monoxide - CO 0.9667

I thought that too as I put up a Co2 monitor last week and it advised me to put it about 20cms below the ceiling

bbam · 29-12-2011 06:07PM

Interestingly it's quite easy to block a chimney with something as simple as what happened in this case..

My brother in law threw an empty shopping bag onto an open fire, it got sucked up the chimney and the crow guard stopped it leaving the chimney and actually held it in place to block the chimney.. The house quickly filled with smoke as the fire wasn't long lit.. Maybe this is/isn't what happened but it can happen..

I went straight out the next day and bought alarms for our house and one we have rented.... ~€25 each and they only last 7 years before the whole unit needs changing..

eire.man · 29-12-2011 07:08PM

dubtom wrote: »

Nodin wrote: »

Bit more than an empty pack of crisps....

What difference does it make if the wrapper was big or small,3 people died as a result of it FFS.

if it was a small wrapper it may not have caused the blockage, meaning the family could still be alive, it makes a huge difference if ya ask me!!

Ellis Dee · 29-12-2011 07:15PM

msg11 wrote: »

How did it block it ? Would it not have melted in the fire, I don't really understand to be honest?

My guess is that the plastic was sucked some way up the flue and then got stuck. As mentioned in the report, the plastic had been thrown on the dying embers of the fire; in other words, there were no flames to burn the plastic out of it and not enough heat in the fire to push the carbon monoxide up the chimney. Therefore the deadly odourless gas just flowed into the room. Similar tragedies have happened when the atmospheric conditions (high pressure, downdraft) pushed carbon monoxide out from a fire and into a room.

The lesson we should all learn from this is to be very careful indeed with open fireplaces and always make sure a fire has either burned out or been put out before one goes to sleep. :cool:

oranbhoy67 · 29-12-2011 07:56PM

After reading this im so glad that i dont have an open fire any more.. i had one for a few years & the novelty of it soon wore off.. however it was my only source of heat so it had to be lit every day & i burned as much rubbish on it as i could.. i wasnt aware such a thing like this could happen so i have total sympathy with this poor family .. & salia your an idiot!

mikom · 29-12-2011 07:58PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

& salia your an idiot!

ironing.

oranbhoy67 · 29-12-2011 08:16PM

mikom wrote: »

ironing.

Hilarious internet hipster.

mikom · 29-12-2011 08:24PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Hilarious internet hipster.

If you only knew...

Irish Guitarist · 29-12-2011 09:25PM

I used to throw all types of rubbish into the fire when I was a child. I used to love throwing empty plastic bottles with tightly closed lids in and watch them explode. It was incredibly stupid but I was just a child.

I'm guessing that one of the children threw the wrapper into the fire. I don't see how anyone could say that a family deserves to die because of an act of childhood stupidity.

Jesus Wept · 29-12-2011 09:40PM

Horrible.

OurLadyofKnock · 29-12-2011 09:41PM

I used to work installing fire and smoke alarms and I went to a training course. They said the chances of someone being killed by Carbon Monoxide was usually a result of doors in the room being closed. Which is what a lot of Irish houses are like which have solid fuel are like. People do things like go to sleep in a room with all the doors closed and a blocked flue and the gas builds up from the floor at frightening speed.

The thing is, when you go to sleep and leave doors open and if the gas rises it needs the whole house to do it and will by then have left the house via the cat flap and so on. This is one of the reasons the Open Plan home was developed due to Carbon Monoxide deaths from gas leaks in the USA at the turn of the last century.

I must say I find people who invoke the Darwin Awards are pretty insensitive - as even if someone dies due to a silly act - it is still the loss of a human life.

When I saw a poster here apply Darwins law to this case all I can say to that person is google "Socialised Psychopath" you might get a few insights into your own shortcomings.

Basq · 29-12-2011 09:46PM

Shocking story... and incredibly sad!

I feel so sorry for that poor wife and mother who is both grief-stricken and suffering with cancer.

If anything good could possibly come of all this, it's that maybe people will become more aware of the dangers.

I myself bought 3 carbon monoxide alarms for various family members... until this story broke, I would never have considered it.

RIP!

Amalgam · 29-12-2011 09:53PM

Always amazed how quick carbon monoxide overwhelms people, they're often found seated at a table etc, holding stuff they were handling before they expired, a mug, a book, a pen.

Just a strange idea, that someone can be overcome that quickly.

Sadly not confined to the fireplace, there's been a rash of dodgy pellet (wood) boilers installed, over the past few years, along with the recent Beko and Flavel recall. (?)

Zen65 · 29-12-2011 10:15PM

vicwatson wrote: »

I thought that too as I put up a Co2 monitor last week and it advised me to put it about 20cms below the ceiling

For the avoidance of confusion:

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is heavier than air. Under normal combustion conditions, with adequate air flow through the fuel, the carbon content of the fuel (wood, peat, coal, oil, gas) is chemically combined with oxygen in the air to form CO2. Although it is heavier than air, under combustion conditions the CO2 will be heated substantially above the temperature of the surrounding air and so will be carried out the flue as hot gases are lighter.

Some CO2 will not exit by the flue but will enter the room. This is not a problem because air always contains CO2 (from your breath, for example). CO2 in a room is harmless unless it reaches such quantities that it excludes oxygen. So although CO2 is harmless, you can drown in it. It's very difficult for this to happen in a room where there is enough air present to maintain a fire.

However where air supply to a fire is limited, the combustion process does not burn to completion and so the carbon in the fuel combines with oxygen to make a less stable compound Carbon Monoxide (CO). Carbon monoxide is lighter than air and unlike CO2 it is chemically active. If introduced into the bloodstream (by inhalation) it attaches itself to the hemoglobin in blood, which normally acts as the carrier for oxygen. Blood with a high proportion of CO cannot transport enough oxygen to maintain life, and so the exposure proves fatal.

Both CO and CO2 are odourless. There are CO detectors commercially available which detect the presence of CO in the air, a warning that incomplete combustion is taking place nearby and therefore alerting householders to the danger. The symptoms of CO exposure include euphoria, dizziness, headaches, and then sleepiness. This is followed fairly quickly by death.

The reason for placing CO monitors high in a room is because CO is lighter than air, so deadly concentrations occur higher in the room first. Avoiding the space close to the ceiling is to avoid the effect of "air blanketting" which can prevent the CO from reaching the ceiling. Best sensitivity is obtained a few cm below the ceiling.

CO2 monitors are not normally available by retail. There is generally no need as there will almost always be adequate air in a room to avoid drowning in CO2. The enemy is CO.

In this tragic case it appears the crisp bag interfered with the thermal draft which pulls air through the the fire grate. Without enough air passing through the grate the remaining fuel burned incompletely and a high concentration of CO built up in the house. The circumstances that would bring this about are quite unlikely, as the bag has to be small enough to be carried up the flue to such an extent that the heat of the fire does not cause it to shrink further. Also, the combustion must have been complete enough to prevent smoke entering the house (which would have alerted them to the problem) but not complete enough to avoid producing CO.

It is a hugely tragic event by any standard, and not deserving of any shallow commentary here on Boards ie. The family were facing hard times before this event with one serious illness in the family, and for this event to have happened when it did defies words.

I can only join other posters here in expressing my sympathy to the mother and remaining family members.

May they rest in peace,

Z

Lisha · 29-12-2011 10:45PM

Hi About 10 yrs ago I was walking past open fire in my house, I had light plastic bag in my hand, without thinking I threw bag into open fire. it immediatdley flew up chimney where it got stuck at top. within 1-1.5mins room was filled with smoke. Luckily my boyfriend (Now husband) was out side with 2 other guys, they climbed up onto roof, and freed bag. It was a very scary few mins, thankfully no real damage done. REally scared the crap out of us.

Accidents are just that accidents. Passing smart comments about the origion of this tragic event is, in IMHO, needless and pointless.
The family of the deceased deserve nothing only sympathy and understanding.

Also it is possible to get a combined fire sensor and co detector. We have them and also they are wired to mains. (Was told by electrician who wired house that this was the best option),

Lisha · 29-12-2011 10:47PM

Zen65 wrote: »

For the avoidance of confusion:

The reason for placing CO monitors high in a room is because CO is lighter than air, so deadly concentrations occur higher in the room first. Avoiding the space close to the ceiling is to avoid the effect of "air blanketting" which can prevent the CO from reaching the ceiling. Best sensitivity is obtained a few cm below the ceiling.

Z

Since reading this I ve been considering getting one ofthe 7 year battery co detectors. Thanks for the info

TheUsual · 29-12-2011 10:51PM

Have three CO (CO carbon monoxide/CO2 dioxide detectors in Woodies or B&Q) detectors around the house but I always close all doors going to sleep as my family had a house fire about 15 years ago and we got away from it because the doors were closed and the oxygen could not feed the fire.

Anyway, so so sorry for the family and friends of this family ... R.I.P.

Micky Dolenz · 29-12-2011 11:38PM

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

Banned.

Nobody asks for a fatal accident.

TheUsual · 30-12-2011 12:13AM

Basq wrote: »

Shocking story... and incredibly sad!
I feel so sorry for that poor wife and mother who is both grief-stricken and suffering with cancer.RIP!

Amen.

Crisp wrapper blockage killed family

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