Crisp wrapper blockage killed family

dubtom · 29-12-2011 12:52pm #1

A plastic crisp wrapper thrown on to the dying embers of a fire caused the deaths of a father and his two children, Irish investigators now believe.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/crisp-wrapper-blockage-killed-family-16096512.html#ixzz1hvZV6uqDhttp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/crisp-wrapper-blockage-killed-family-16096512.html

This is shocking, how something so simple as a crisp packet could kill those poor people. I'm constantly telling my Wife,who is a compulsive fire messer,to stay away from it.

Saila · 29-12-2011 12:55pm

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

Mod: Poster banned.

bitemybanger · 29-12-2011 12:56pm

You couldn't do that if you tried.
Have you ever tried lighting a fire from a lit cigarette? It dosnt work but DON'T fall asleep holding one or else!

dubtom · 29-12-2011 12:58pm

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

yes

Nodin · 29-12-2011 1:04pm

dubtom wrote: »

This is shocking, how something so simple as a crisp packet could kill those poor people. I'm constantly telling my Wife,who is a compulsive fire messer,to stay away from it.

Bit more than an empty pack of crisps....

It has been learned that a large plastic wrapper from a crisp multi-pack caused a blockage and sent the deadly fumes into the living room where the family was watching television.

44leto · 29-12-2011 1:17pm

I am shocked at the simplicity of the cause of this tragedy.

All smoke alarms should be routinely fitted with carbon monoxide detectors. It would not be that expensive to impose this extra standard on the manufactures, besides people would be willing to pay the extra cost.

dubtom · 29-12-2011 1:27pm

Nodin wrote: »

Bit more than an empty pack of crisps....

What difference does it make if the wrapper was big or small,3 people died as a result of it FFS.

ItsAWindUp · 29-12-2011 1:30pm

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

Charming

Saila · 29-12-2011 1:31pm

dubtom wrote: »

What difference does it make if the wrapper was big or small,3 people died as a result of it FFS.

one of them is just a dumb thing to do, the other wins a darwin award with 2 other defenceless child victims

Mod: Poster banned.

sligono1 · 29-12-2011 1:31pm

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

here now what sort of comment is that three people are dead and a family that will never be the same.

isnt it easy for you to hide behind your keyboard and sling such pathetic comments,no your the numpty saila

Saila · 29-12-2011 1:33pm

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Charming

doesnt change the fact he was asking for it though

Mod: Poster banned.

ItsAWindUp · 29-12-2011 1:33pm

Saila wrote: »

doesnt change the fact he was asking for it though

What a pathetic insensitive comment to make

Nodin · 29-12-2011 1:35pm

dubtom wrote: »

What difference does it make if the wrapper was big or small,3 people died as a result of it FFS.

...because the idea that a small piece of plastic can block a chimney and kill a family (a) causes needless panic and (b) isn't what happened.

msg11 · 29-12-2011 1:36pm

How did it block it ? Would it not have melted in the fire, I don't really understand to be honest?

ItsAWindUp · 29-12-2011 1:37pm

msg11 wrote: »

How did it block it ? Would it not have melted in the fire, I don't really understand to be honest?

Maybe the chimney was already partially blocked? It's a strange one all right

sligono1 · 29-12-2011 1:37pm

Saila wrote: »

doesnt change the fact he was asking for it though

sad sad person.

44leto · 29-12-2011 1:37pm

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

Who put the wrapper on the fire was it one of the children??

And most don't even know the dangers of CO

peasant · 29-12-2011 1:39pm

44leto wrote: »

All smoke alarms should be routinely fitted with carbon monoxide detectors. It would not be that expensive to impose this extra standard on the manufactures, besides people would be willing to pay the extra cost.

Bit tricky, that one.
Carbon monoxide is heavy (-er than normal air) and usually builds up in a pool on the floor, rising slowly ...whereas smoke detectors usually are on the ceiling because smoke rises.

EDIT
I've since learned that I was wrong.
Carbon monoxide is lighter than air ...it's CO2 that I was thinking of

Nodin · 29-12-2011 1:40pm

msg11 wrote: »

How did it block it ? Would it not have melted in the fire, I don't really understand to be honest?

If you put a piece of paper on the fire that isn't crumpled up, the heated air can catch it and blow it up the chimney. Presumably thats what happened here.

Saila · 29-12-2011 1:40pm

msg11 wrote: »

How did it block it ? Would it not have melted in the fire, I don't really understand to be honest?

with the wind lately it could easily have been suked up the chimney when they threw it on the fire and not had a chance to burn.

Plazaman · 29-12-2011 1:41pm

Saila wrote: »

one of them is just a dumb thing to do, the other wins a darwin award with 2 other defenceless child victims

What am I missing here. Nowhere in the article does it say Mr Wallwork put the package into the fire.

Regardless of if he did or not, 3 people have died and so a keyboard warrior ups and decides they deserved it ???

jcf · 29-12-2011 1:43pm

How the hell did this manage to block the fumes and redirect them to the living room ??

surely it would shrivel up and burn ?

or was it the fumes from the plastic itself that killed them ?

meemeep · 29-12-2011 1:46pm

taken from www.carbonmonoxide.ie:

The incomplete combustion of organic fossil fuels such as oil, gas or coal is a common environmental source of CO and is responsible for many cases of non-fatal unintentional CO poisoning.

In normal conditions the combustion process (the addition of oxygen) will result in carbon in the fossil fuel, combining with oxygen, in the air, to produce Carbon Dioxide (CO2), the same substance we exhale when we breathe.

However, if there is a lack of air for the combustion process or the heating appliance is faulty, Carbon Monoxide can be produced.

So if the chimney was blocked and no air was getting through - I guess it could happen. Freaky and very sad.

sunflower27 · 29-12-2011 1:48pm

There's always going to be someone that needs to get in with the crass comment.

I think all of us have done stupid things in our pasts that could have gone horribly wrong and thankfully didn't.

henryporter · 29-12-2011 1:49pm

Judging by some of the dumb questions so far, it's surprising tragedies like this aren't more prevalent. Fireplaces are for burning fuel, not rubbish. Regardless I have nothing but the utmost sympathy for the poor mother of the two children, nobody deserves to go through such pain.

peasant · 29-12-2011 1:50pm

jcf wrote: »

How the hell did this manage to block the fumes and redirect them to the living room ??

surely it would shrivel up and burn ?

or was it the fumes from the plastic itself that killed them ?

A semi-melted sheet of big plastic being sucked up the chimney and blocking the flue (which usually is rather small in diameter) seems possible.

The other problem then is the remains of the fire. The article talks about glowing embers. While these don't usually produce smoke anymore, they still burn a huge amount of oxygen (and produce huge amounts of CO and CO2) ...but due to the lack of smoke you wouldn't notice that the chimney is blocked as CO and CO2 are odourless.

M cebee · 29-12-2011 1:50pm

Saila wrote: »

dubtom wrote: »

What difference does it make if the wrapper was big or small,3 people died as a result of it FFS.

one of them is just a dumb thing to do, the other wins a darwin award with 2 other defenceless child victims

you deserve a darwin award for pathetic,insensitive comments if not trolling

prob one of kids threw it in fire anyway

Saila · 29-12-2011 1:55pm

Plazaman wrote: »

What am I missing here. Nowhere in the article does it say Mr Wallwork put the package into the fire.

Regardless of if he did or not, 3 people have died and so a keyboard warrior ups and decides they deserved it ???

eh no, I said or at least meant if a huge crisp packet gets put on a fire it is a dumb thing to do. period. if a child does it there are supervision issues. we will never know, all we can take from what has happened is it was a tragic accident and Im sorry to hear it like most.

the facts according to the article are this big crisp packet was put on after it was on its way out [this is what embers are] and blocked the chimney causing the build up of carbon monoxide gas which caused their suffocation and death.

RIP either way.

Overheal · 29-12-2011 1:59pm

Tragic but people do ridiculous things. I've lost people close to me who are gone more to their own mistakes than anyone else, as much as you'd like to blame others who were at fault in the second degree.

M cebee · 29-12-2011 2:01pm

Saila wrote: »

Plazaman wrote: »

What am I missing here. Nowhere in the article does it say Mr Wallwork put the package into the fire.

Regardless of if he did or not, 3 people have died and so a keyboard warrior ups and decides they deserved it ???

eh no, I said or at least meant if a huge crisp packet gets put on a fire it is a dumb thing to do. period. if a child does it there are supervision issues. we will never know, all we can take from what has happened is it was a tragic accident and Im sorry to hear it like most.

the facts according to the article are this big crisp packet was put on after it was on its way out [this is what embers are] and blocked the chimney causing the build up of carbon monoxide gas which caused their suffocation and death.

RIP either way.

you cant determine there are supervision issues here

leave it alone

Stiffler2 · 29-12-2011 2:03pm

Wow - that is bizarre.
I saw this on the news when it happened and assumed another murder, murder, suicide by the Dad.

I am truly shocked about this, not being bad but surely it has to be on the TV Show - 100 weirdest ways to die.

Was the crisp packet thrown on the fire and the fumes from the packet killed them or was the chimney blocked by the crisp packet and the smoke from the "normal" fire got them ??

cynder · 29-12-2011 2:03pm

So sad,

The other day i threw a crisp packet in the fire and it got sucked up, it was only a small one, jeez i'll be more careful the next time. Accidents happen, no one was to know that the crisp packet would block off the vents.

Poor kids and dad, i cried all the way through the news report... A very tragic accident....

DoneDL · 29-12-2011 2:03pm

peasant wrote: »

Bit tricky, that one.
Carbon monoxide is heavy (-er than normal air) and usually builds up in a pool on the floor, rising slowly ...whereas smoke detectors usually are on the ceiling because smoke rises.

Sorry its not.

Gas Specific Gravity
Air 1.000,
Carbon monoxide - CO 0.9667

Saila · 29-12-2011 2:06pm

here's the article in the OP btw.

Crisp wrapper blockage killed family

Thursday, 29 December 2011

A plastic crisp wrapper thrown on to the dying embers of a fire caused the deaths of a father and his two children, Irish investigators now believe.
Trevor Wallwork, his daughter Kimberley (12) and his son Harry (9) were found dead at their home outside the south Sligo village of Gurteen 12 days ago.
It has been learned that a large plastic wrapper from a crisp multi-pack caused a blockage and sent the deadly fumes into the living room where the family was watching television.
Mr Wallwork (50) was found dead on a chair and his children were found lying on the floor. Kimberley was beside a Christmas list she had written, detailing presents she planned to buy.
Gardai and fire officers spent almost three days investigating the deaths. A post mortem found all three had died from carbon monoxide poisoning.
One source confirmed: "The investigators have looked at every aspect of this incident and believe the Wallworks were killed by fumes from the fire in the living room - and that those fumes were caused by a blockage in the chimney created by a plastic crisp wrapper."
Fresh details of the incident emerged last night as 400 people gathered for a memorial service for the family in Sligo. The children's stepmother Susan made the short journey from Sligo General Hospital - where she is being treated for cancer - to the chapel at Nazareth House for last night's service.
She sat just a few feet from the coffin of her husband and the two white coffins of her stepchildren during the service conducted by the parish priest of Gurteen, Fr Joe Caufield and Methodist Minister Stephen Taylor.
Holding her hand was her daughter Vicky, who had found the bodies at the family home in the townland of Moygara.
Three of Mr Wallwork's brothers travelled from Lancashire for the service and one of them, Charlie, thanked locals for their support in recent days.
"Having met the people of Gurteen, I can now understand why Trevor settled in this community," he said.
Kevin Gallagher, principal of Mullaghroe National School where Harry and Kim were pupils, shook with emotion as he described how they had contributed to life there.
Harry, he said, had become an accomplished bodhran player.
"A couple of weeks ago the teacher remarked that Harry was a natural player. Harry heard this and his face just lit up with pride," said Mr Gallagher.
His sister was always looking out for him, making sure he had everything he needed.
"A few weeks ago Sligo Rovers brought the FAI Cup to the school and the first picture taken on the new school camera was of Kimberley and Harry lifting the cup.
"I was going to give the picture to Kimberley as a present when she left the school next year but now it will take pride of place in the school instead.
"Kimberley told me that she lived at 'Forget me Not' cottage. This is so apt because I will never forget her and Harry."
School friends of the children read prayers and mourners heard Fr Caufield say that "an accident so simple" had plunged "their nearest and dearest, family and friends into darkness".
The memorial service ended with the Gurteen choir singing Silent Night as mourners signed a book of condolences.
The Wallworks will be taken to England in two weeks for burial.
Gardai now believe their deaths were accidental but will not make a statement until toxicology reports on the bodies are returned.

44leto · 29-12-2011 2:15pm

peasant wrote: »

Bit tricky, that one.
Carbon monoxide is heavy (-er than normal air) and usually builds up in a pool on the floor, rising slowly ...whereas smoke detectors usually are on the ceiling because smoke rises.

Good to know and thanks for the info.

EDIT just seen another post. So a dual alarm may be possible, I need to research it a little more.

sligono1 · 29-12-2011 3:27pm

Saila wrote: »

here's the article in the OP btw.

after reading that article how can you not but feel the tragedy and sadness of this fire.
so explain besides trolling why have you made your comments in your first three posts in this thread,this has really annoyed me today,

soterpisc · 29-12-2011 3:28pm

jcf wrote: »

How the hell did this manage to block the fumes and redirect them to the living room ??

surely it would shrivel up and burn ?

or was it the fumes from the plastic itself that killed them ?

you obviously don't see the dangers with burning rubbish at home!!. Fires are only for burning solid fuel, Coal, Turf etc.. Its not for anything else. The plastic wrapper was probably thrown in the fire and got sucked up the chimney.

People today are so lax when it comes to open fires.

Johnny Foreigner · 29-12-2011 4:39pm

dubtom wrote: »

A plastic crisp wrapper thrown on to the dying embers of a fire caused the deaths of a father and his two children, Irish investigators now believe.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/crisp-wrapper-blockage-killed-family-16096512.html#ixzz1hvZV6uqDhttp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/crisp-wrapper-blockage-killed-family-16096512.html

This is shocking, how something so simple as a crisp packet could kill those poor people. I'm constantly telling my Wife,who is a compulsive fire messer,to stay away from it.

If there was a God, he wouldn't allow this to happen.
This is why I am an Atheist.

Ally Dick · 29-12-2011 4:42pm

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

What a horrible thing to say

Da Shins Kelly · 29-12-2011 4:47pm

Saila wrote: »

is this the one about the carbon monoxide?

edit: my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

asking for it :rolleyes:

What the bloody hell is wrong with you?

mikom · 29-12-2011 4:50pm

Saila wrote: »

my sympathy left when I saw it was the huge bag the 10+ packets of crisps come in. what numpty puts one of those on a fire

One who can't pay their bin charges...... probably.

Aoifey! · 29-12-2011 4:52pm

Wow, just shows how easily things like this can happen.

RIP

vicwatson · 29-12-2011 4:55pm

DoneDL wrote: »

Sorry its not.

Gas Specific Gravity
Air 1.000,
Carbon monoxide - CO 0.9667

I thought that too as I put up a Co2 monitor last week and it advised me to put it about 20cms below the ceiling

bbam · 29-12-2011 5:07pm

Interestingly it's quite easy to block a chimney with something as simple as what happened in this case..

My brother in law threw an empty shopping bag onto an open fire, it got sucked up the chimney and the crow guard stopped it leaving the chimney and actually held it in place to block the chimney.. The house quickly filled with smoke as the fire wasn't long lit.. Maybe this is/isn't what happened but it can happen..

I went straight out the next day and bought alarms for our house and one we have rented.... ~€25 each and they only last 7 years before the whole unit needs changing..

eire.man · 29-12-2011 6:08pm

dubtom wrote: »

Nodin wrote: »

Bit more than an empty pack of crisps....

What difference does it make if the wrapper was big or small,3 people died as a result of it FFS.

if it was a small wrapper it may not have caused the blockage, meaning the family could still be alive, it makes a huge difference if ya ask me!!

Ellis Dee · 29-12-2011 6:15pm

msg11 wrote: »

How did it block it ? Would it not have melted in the fire, I don't really understand to be honest?

My guess is that the plastic was sucked some way up the flue and then got stuck. As mentioned in the report, the plastic had been thrown on the dying embers of the fire; in other words, there were no flames to burn the plastic out of it and not enough heat in the fire to push the carbon monoxide up the chimney. Therefore the deadly odourless gas just flowed into the room. Similar tragedies have happened when the atmospheric conditions (high pressure, downdraft) pushed carbon monoxide out from a fire and into a room.

The lesson we should all learn from this is to be very careful indeed with open fireplaces and always make sure a fire has either burned out or been put out before one goes to sleep. :cool:

oranbhoy67 · 29-12-2011 6:56pm

After reading this im so glad that i dont have an open fire any more.. i had one for a few years & the novelty of it soon wore off.. however it was my only source of heat so it had to be lit every day & i burned as much rubbish on it as i could.. i wasnt aware such a thing like this could happen so i have total sympathy with this poor family .. & salia your an idiot!

mikom · 29-12-2011 6:58pm

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

& salia your an idiot!

ironing.

oranbhoy67 · 29-12-2011 7:16pm

mikom wrote: »

ironing.

Hilarious internet hipster.

mikom · 29-12-2011 7:24pm

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Hilarious internet hipster.

If you only knew...

Irish Guitarist · 29-12-2011 8:25pm

I used to throw all types of rubbish into the fire when I was a child. I used to love throwing empty plastic bottles with tightly closed lids in and watch them explode. It was incredibly stupid but I was just a child.

I'm guessing that one of the children threw the wrapper into the fire. I don't see how anyone could say that a family deserves to die because of an act of childhood stupidity.

Crisp wrapper blockage killed family

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