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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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  • #3932
    killwill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    I love that old chestnut, "I have campaigned against racism"

    you don't need to be a die hard racist to make these racist remarks.

    What is his side of the story? did he admit to saying what it appears he said on camera?

    Looks like a serious sh*t storm is about to rain down on him.

    Suarez said the same thing too!!!


  • #3933
    Luap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭Luap


    SlickRic wrote: »
    let's face it though, counting Ashley Cole as a close friend isn't something to exactly brag about.

    ;)

    I've been wondering if team mates would take it personally, because if they do, Terry won't have many friends left :pac:


  • #3934
    GavRedKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,267 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    ricero wrote: »
    decided not to comment on this thread over the last 2 days due the amount of morons commenting on this with little or no knowledge of the incidents.
    firstly i have no sympathy for john terry, you live in london a place which is a cesspit of racism at the moment due to the multi cultural of the area and you are England captain. also it is clear as day you can see terry calling Ferdinand a black cnut.

    as to suarez this is more complicated and at the moment i feel its a case of miss communication of what is acceptable through different cultures. also if it is true that the only evidence was evras word over suarez then its an absolute disgrace and a crime against justice.

    the fa are trying to crackdown on racism but imo i think they may have started a fire

    JT said, in his defence that he said to Ferdinand " I Didnt call you a black cnut " Now, at the same point of the game he was having words with Paddy Kenny, if he had called Paddy Kenny " A fat cnut " ya can see how, if not heard correctly can be mixed up with black.

    For all its worth, if JT is found guilty I'll commend the FA and CPS for persuaing the matter and also have to say well done to the FA for banning Suarez, JT can expect a similar ban from the FA I reckon and rightfully so.

    Racism in all forms should be banished from the game no matter what context it is used.


  • #3935
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    tommyhaas wrote: »
    What Winter cites there isn't necessarily a reference to Evra previously making racism allegations, but a reference to Evra's evidence in cases previously being found to be unreliable.

    To suggest Evra has previously made unfounded allegations of racism is untrue. To suggest however that Evra has previously been found to be an unreliable witness in a confrontation, as Evra has been found to be is both relevant and true, and this is what Winter could be referring to

    All journalists have an agenda, be it tabloids trying to sensationalise or the broadsheets trying to push their personal opinions, be they driven by loyalty or personal perspective, however from the piece you've quoted above, I don't see much wrong. He has referenced Evra's previous unfounded allegations against the Chelsea groundsman, not accused Evra of previously making unfounded racial allegations

    Yes but there was already a smear campaign from a Liverpool employee, Kristian Walsh who claimed that Evra had made claims of racial abuse against the Chelsea ground staff that were proven to be unfounded.

    It worked and there are now thousands and thousands of people(There's been plenty of instances on this forum) that think Evra made the claim of racial abuse on that occasion. It's well known that there are many people misinformed about that case.

    So when those people read Winter's piece, many will automatically think ''Oh, that time he accused the Chelsea ground staff member of making a racist remark''.

    Winter has mentioned that incident in a couple of articles now, and has failed to clarify the true facts, when he's had the chance to. That's irresponsible journalism imo.


  • #3936
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    UnitedIrishman wrote: »
    As for the 'where does it end? If I call someone a Paddy is that racist?'

    Why would calling anyone "Paddy" be considered racist? Yes, it's a derogatory term for an Irish person. It is not, however, a comment on their race.


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  • #3937
    Professional Griefer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,116 ✭✭✭Professional Griefer


    Wonder wiill Chelsea pull a Liverpool with the statement


  • #3938
    RoboClam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭RoboClam


    We're here for you John Terry after that ridiculous ruling, you'll never walk alone.

    :pac:


  • #3939
    Sgt Pepper 64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Sgt Pepper 64


    Blatter wrote: »
    More Terry quotes just in;

    "I have never aimed a racist remark at anyone & count people from all races & creeds among my closest friends."

    "I am disappointed with the decision to charge me & hope to be given the chance to clear my name as quickly as possible."


    Terry just doesnt get it. He verbally abused a fellow professional with a dispicable remark. Its not about being racist, and more about as a club and country capt, treating people with respect and setting an example


  • #3940
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Killme00 wrote: »
    Why would calling anyone "Paddy" be considered racist? Yes, it's a derogatory term for an Irish person. It is not, however, a comment on their race.



    It is not racist, but under the FA's own rules, it could be seen as insulting or abusive langauge.

    I really think that the FA need to publish how they came to the verdict they did, and what evidence there was, otherwise a rigtht can of worms may be opened.


  • #3941
    J. Marston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,349 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »
    Wonder wiill Chelsea pull a Liverpool with the statement
    Chelsea Football Club today received notification that the Crown Prosecution Service has charged John Terry with a racially aggravated public order offence.
    John has made it clear he denies the charge and is determined to do all he can to prove his innocence.
    Chelsea FC has always been fully supportive of John in this matter and will continue to be so.
    The club finds all forms of discrimination abhorrent and we are proud of the work we undertake campaigning on this important issue.
    Chelsea will not be commenting further on the subject while the legal process runs its course.

    Backing the player, which is what you would expect them to do but otherwise, it seems fairly measured.


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  • #3942
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    budgemook wrote: »
    On Suarez, Just spoke to my Spanish friend on IM. Here is the conversation:

    Him: so what did suarez say to evra?
    Him: n****r or something else?
    Me: negrito
    Him: negrito!
    Him: eso no es ni racista
    Him: that's not racist
    Him: in spanish if you say negrito is a kind way to say that he is black
    Him: negrito is kind
    Him: negro is just black
    Him: and negrata is n****r

    Do we know what he said? If it's negrito or negro then it really is an awful ruling.

    Your point is irrelevant. Sure didn't John terry 'only' call Anton Ferdinand Black. It's the context in which you call someone black that can make it racist.


  • #3943
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Backing the player, which is what you would expect them to do but otherwise, it seems fairly measured.

    That statement doesn't really mean anything, it was exactly what was expected. The statement if he's found guilty will be much more interesting.


  • #3944
    budgemook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭budgemook


    menoscemo wrote: »
    Your point is irrelevant. Sure didn't John terry 'only' call Anton Ferdinand Black. It's the context in which you call someone black that can make it racist.

    Yes but the context "Black Cnut" is obvious.

    Negrito really is like saying blondie by the sounds of things.

    Anyways, I'm going to unsubscribe.


  • #3945
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    Kess73 wrote: »
    It is not racist, but under the FA's own rules, it could be seen as insulting or abusive langauge.

    I really think that the FA need to publish how they came to the verdict they did, and what evidence there was, otherwise a rigtht can of worms may be opened.

    Completely agree with you, i was just pointing out the obvious that Irish isnt a race.


  • #3946
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Blatter wrote: »
    Yes but there was already a smear campaign from a Liverpool employee, Kristian Walsh who claimed that Evra had made claims of racial abuse against the Chelsea ground staff that were proven to be unfounded.

    It worked and there are now thousands and thousands of people(There's been plenty of instances on this forum) that think Evra made the claim of racial abuse on that occasion. It's well known that there are many people misinformed about that case.

    So when those people read Winter's piece, many will automatically think ''Oh, that time he accused the Chelsea ground staff member of making a racist remark''.

    Winter has mentioned that incident in a couple of articles now, and has failed to clarify the true facts, when he's had the chance to. That's irresponsible journalism imo.

    Winter is just reporting on the Liverpool statement and what they mean. If he has repeatedly referred to the case without giving more detail, its not great alright.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #3947
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Killme00 wrote: »
    Why would calling anyone "Paddy" be considered racist? Yes, it's a derogatory term for an Irish person. It is not, however, a comment on their race.

    Irish (celtic) people are ethnically distinct from white europeans in the same way we are ethnically distinct from black people, so it could be argued that Paddy or mick are racist terms.


  • #3948
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    Irish (celtic) people are ethnically distinct from white europeans in the same way we are ethnically distinct from black people, so it could be argued that Paddy or mick are racist terms.

    lolwut?


  • #3949
    tommyhaas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭tommyhaas


    Blatter wrote: »
    Yes but there was already a smear campaign from a Liverpool employee, Kristian Walsh who claimed that Evra had made claims of racial abuse against the Chelsea ground staff that were proven to be unfounded.

    It worked and there are now thousands and thousands of people(There's been plenty of instances on this forum) that think Evra made the claim of racial abuse on that occasion. It's well known that there are many people misinformed about that case.

    So when those people read Winter's piece, many will automatically think ''Oh, that time he accused the Chelsea ground staff member of making a racist remark''.

    Winter has mentioned that incident in a couple of articles now, and has failed to clarify the true facts, when he's had the chance to. That's irresponsible journalism imo.

    Kristian Walsh was stupid to tweet what he did, and his explanation showed him in a worse light. I'm pretty sure though that his tweets were in a personal capacity rather then a professional one, though he did use his professional account AFAIK

    I haven't been reading Winter's articles, so I'm not going to dispute the point. Obviously he should clarify that the accusations he's referring to weren't racial, but the fact that Evra has previously been found to be unreliable is relevant, and the extent of this relevance is obviously dependent upon whether his evidence relates to content or context, though it seems likely to be context


  • #3950
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Sure the Irish are really Indian/Arabs, everyone knows that.


  • #3951
    Luap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭Luap


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    Irish (celtic) people are ethnically distinct from white europeans in the same way we are ethnically distinct from black people, so it could be argued that Paddy or mick are racist terms.

    Not all of us have frickles and ginger hair!


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  • #3952
    Ordinary man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭Ordinary man


    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/early-doors/suarez-case-too-important-foohtmltball-idiocy-091305627.

    Good piece from yahoo


  • #3953
    manual_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭manual_man


    So when's Evra gonna get his 16 match ban


  • #3954
    That_Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,342 ✭✭✭✭That_Guy


    I can't wait for Liverpool's Twitter campaign:

    #JusticeForInjustice


  • #3955
    tommyhaas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭tommyhaas


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    Irish (celtic) people are ethnically distinct from white europeans in the same way we are ethnically distinct from black people, so it could be argued that Paddy or mick are racist terms.

    White Europeans that aren't descended from vikings perhaps? Because lets be honest here. The source of our ethnicity is Viking sailors coming ashore for a ride and a fight


  • #3956
    Brain Stroking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭Brain Stroking


    tommyhaas wrote: »
    Kristian Walsh was stupid to tweet what he did, and his explanation showed him in a worse light. I'm pretty sure though that his tweets were in a personal capacity rather then a professional one, though he did use his professional account AFAIK

    I haven't been reading Winter's articles, so I'm not going to dispute the point. Obviously he should clarify that the accusations he's referring to weren't racial, but the fact that Evra has previously been found to be unreliable is relevant, and the extent of this relevance is obviously dependent upon whether his evidence relates to content or context, though it seems likely to be context

    The bold bit. There were no accusations made by Evra in that instance. Why are some people unable to grasp this fact, even when stated to them simply?

    As for being found unreliable, well do you know why he was found to be unreliable? Does the fact that he made no accusations in that case not make you think his unreliability had something to do with his proximity to the incident or recollection of events?


  • #3957
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »
    That's the thing is'nt it "he COULD be telling the truth" but if there is no evidence you can not take his word alone. Without having the whole facts of course, the impression i get is of a narrow-minded, parochial panel completely ignorant of any cultural issues outside England. they think Suarez is racist because he used a word that sounds like a bad word in English, regardless of context, and Evra did nothing wrong because they've never heard of the term "sudaca" and anyway, racism for them is simply a black and white issue. Right?

    It's been said Suarez and others need to adapt to cultural norms when they come to England which is fair enough, but the FA also needs to realise that it is a global game, a league with a worldwide following and cultures exist outside England too. It's this in particular that annoys the sh it otta me.

    More on this? Is this the word that Suarez did not hear but perhaps Evra acknowledged saying? A lot of if's in that - but if true, I don't know how Evra has escaped punishment.
    mike65 wrote: »
    My own suspicion is that Suarez has been made an example of as the FA need to be seen to be on the side of the angels and to make a point to Sepp Blatter. If relations esp on racism were better things might have been handled differently. Most observers seem to think they were determined to use this incident as an opportunity to highlight Blatters ignorance.

    Terry is the England captain so I reckon we know what happens here.
    Paparazzo wrote: »
    How much of this Suarez ban is the FA giving the 2 fingers to Sepp Blatter by telling him "we take racism more serious than your out of date views"?



    First thing I read this morning was this:

    wrote:
    Former executive director Davies said the FA was "way ahead" of Uefa and Fifa, the European and world governing bodies for football, when it came to tackling racism in football.

    No-one is saying he's a racist; he's probably a very nice guy
    Lord Ouseley.
    "The FA has been at the forefront of fighting racism over more than a decade, and using football to do so - perhaps way ahead of Uefa, let alone Fifa," he added.

    Can they not give the ruling without having minions like this come out and highlight the points scoring, it was assumed anyway.
    People like this really have no place making statements anyhow, the clue is 'former'.
    quarryman wrote: »
    He has a point in fairness. I haven't seen one Liverpool fan accept the verdict and start the 8-game countdown. He was found guilty, get on with it ffs.

    Instead it's:
    Blame the English language
    Blame Evra's dog
    Blame Terry
    Blame Steve Keane.

    Guys, he was found guilty of using racist language towards another player. It wasn't a quick decision, it took almost a week to come to a conclusion. How about some hands going up here and admitting Suarez was in the wrong. He might not be racist but he acted like one.

    Second time at least that Evra's dog has been mentioned, can you provide links to where he has been blamed?


  • #3958
    Warper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭Warper


    If Terry is going to be criminally charged, so should Suarez.

    The 2 of them should be banned for the rest of the season - absolutely typical of Liverpool and Chelsea.


  • #3959
    Sappy404
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭Sappy404


    Killme00 wrote: »
    Why would calling anyone "Paddy" be considered racist? Yes, it's a derogatory term for an Irish person. It is not, however, a comment on their race.

    It's not considered racist, but it can be considered discriminatory in the same way a racist remark can. The reason racism is more serious is because it's more frequently used as a form of discrimination and prejudice.


  • #3960
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,590 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Warper wrote: »
    If Terry is going to be criminally charged, so should Suarez.

    The 2 of them should be banned for the rest of the season - absolutely typical of Liverpool and Chelsea.

    lol


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  • #3961
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    Warper wrote: »
    If Terry is going to be criminally charged, so should Suarez.

    The 2 of them should be banned for the rest of the season - absolutely typical of Liverpool and Chelsea.

    Potentially libellous statement there


This discussion has been closed.
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