Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 03:27PM

Threads merged.

no creating a separate thread for John Terry please.

thanks.

mike65 · 21-12-2011 03:28PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/john-terry-racism-case-cps

Alison Saunders, Chief Crown Prosecutor for London said: "I have today advised the Metropolitan Police Service that John Terry should be prosecuted for a racially aggravated public order offence following comments allegedly made during a Premier League football match between Queen's Park Rangers and Chelsea on 23 October 2011.

"The decision was taken in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors and after careful consideration of all the evidence I am satisfied there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and it is in the public interest to prosecute this case.

"Mr Terry will appear before West London Magistrates' Court on 1 February 2012. He is now summonsed with a criminal offence and has the right to a fair trial. It is extremely important that nothing should be reported which could prejudice his trial."

Cantona's Collars · 21-12-2011 03:28PM

Breaking on Sky News.

Delighted for him-horrible horrible man.Never liked him.

Wonder how the FA will act now that Mr.England has been charged?

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 03:29PM

zerks wrote: »

Breaking on Sky News.

Delighted for him-horrible horrible man.Never liked him.

Wonder how the FA will act now that Mr.England has been charged?

they'll have to wait until after the trial i'd imagine.

so Chelsea will have him until then.

then i suspect the FA can step in with their sanctions.

SoulTrader · 21-12-2011 03:30PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/john-terry-racism-case-cps

Terry to be prosecuted - will be very interesting to see the reaction from Chelsea FC.

GavRedKing · 21-12-2011 03:31PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Its on SSN right now, due in court February 1st.

What punishment could he face if found guilty?

FA ban could be the least of his worries

FA ban will be at least the same as Saurez if not more severe, the FA must now conduct their own investigation into the matter but with help from the CPS the case by the FA will be concluded quicker then Suarez's.

The courts however will be interesting and it may drag on awhile, given hes a celebrity it will probably be a suspended sentence and community service.

Paully D · 21-12-2011 03:31PM

Good news with the Suarez ban and Terry being charged.

Blatter · 21-12-2011 03:32PM

I wonder if Terry is found guilty, is that the end of his England career, never mind the captaincy?

Will Chelsea still support him?

That_Guy · 21-12-2011 03:34PM

James Pearce via Twitter:

The Crown Prosecution Service say that the maximum punishment for John Terry if he's found guilty of this offence is a fine of £2500

th3 s1aught3r · 21-12-2011 03:34PM

I hope anyone on here who has decided that Luis Suarez is a racist doesnt ever have a similar allegation made against them, where no proof is required :rolleyes:

homerjay2005 · 21-12-2011 03:35PM

so the fa cannot act until after the 1st february i suppose?

Pepe LeFrits · 21-12-2011 03:35PM

Blatter wrote: »

I wonder if Terry is found guilty, is that the end of his England career, never mind the captaincy?

Will Chelsea still support him?

He'll be cheered more loudly at the next home game.

killwill · 21-12-2011 03:37PM

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I hope anyone on here who has decided that Luis Suarez is a racist doesnt ever have a similar allegation made against them, where no proof is required :rolleyes:

First of all I don't think anyone here has called Suarez a racist, and if they did they arte probably trolling. He was however found guilty of a racist act.

There was proof and if you wait until the findings are published you will see for yourself what the proof was.

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 03:37PM

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I hope anyone on here who has decided that Luis Suarez is a racist doesnt ever have a similar allegation made against them, where no proof is required :rolleyes:

we don't know the proof.

we have to assume there was.

it's the amount of proof, and the context, which will need explaining.

but don't pretend there was no proof; the FA aren't that stupid. and this type of comment makes all us Liverpool fans look irrational and loony. so please, have a look at the case, see what happened, and wait for the explanation from the FA in due course.

GavRedKing · 21-12-2011 03:38PM

Blatter wrote: »

I wonder if Terry is found guilty, is that the end of his England career, never mind the captaincy?

Will Chelsea still support him?

If hes found guilty he might aswell retire from the England setup, the media will be calling for his head anyway I can imagine.

Dont see why Chelsea wont support him.

Blatter · 21-12-2011 03:39PM

Terry: "I will fight tooth & nail to prove my innocence. I have campaigned against racism & believe there is no place for it in society."

GavRedKing · 21-12-2011 03:41PM

From Chelsea : http://www.chelseafc.com/page/LatestNews/0,,10268~2554727,00.html

Chelsea Football Club today received notification that the Crown Prosecution Service has charged John Terry with a racially aggravated public order offence.
John has made it clear he denies the charge and is determined to do all he can to prove his innocence.
Chelsea FC has always been fully supportive of John in this matter and will continue to be so.
The club finds all forms of discrimination abhorrent and we are proud of the work we undertake campaigning on this important issue.
Chelsea will not be commenting further on the subject while the legal process runs its course.

gimli2112 · 21-12-2011 03:41PM

Think you'll find it will be a lot harder for them to stick a criminal charge to Terry than it was for the FA to find Suarez guilty. There's different burdens of proof under both actions.

He'll probably get off the criminal charge (unless they really have some compelling proof) but it would be interesting to see what the FA reaction will be then.

Jayob10 · 21-12-2011 03:41PM

Blatter wrote: »

Terry: "I will fight tooth & nail to prove my innocence. I have campaigned against racism & believe there is no place for it in society."

I love that old chestnut, "I have campaigned against racism"

you don't need to be a die hard racist to make these racist remarks.

What is his side of the story? did he admit to saying what it appears he said on camera?

Looks like a serious sh*t storm is about to rain down on him.

Blatter · 21-12-2011 03:42PM

gavredking wrote: »

Dont see why Chelsea wont support him.

If he's found guilty of racism in a court of law, it's not exactly good PR for Chelsea as a football club to fully back him.

It'll be interesting to see how they handle the situation.

Blatter · 21-12-2011 03:44PM

More Terry quotes just in;

"I have never aimed a racist remark at anyone & count people from all races & creeds among my closest friends."

"I am disappointed with the decision to charge me & hope to be given the chance to clear my name as quickly as possible."

UnitedIrishman · 21-12-2011 03:45PM

Just a final point on the Suarez case -

I think Suarez has been really badly advised by either the club or his representatives. IMO, what happened was he called Evra negrito a few times (Suarez has admitted to using this but it's seen as an affectionate term in his country) to which Evra took offence (from a different part of the world - it's understandable). If Suarez had contacted Evra that night or the following day then he could've put it to bed straight away with a simple explanation. But instead it became trench warfare with Liverpool countering straight away to Evra's allegations with different points.

Honestly, I don't think Suarez is a racist. I think he is, however, guilty of using a term which may be construed as racist in the country he is playing in and against a player who may see it as racist. Hence the ban. Evra's recollection of events and the admission of Suarez to using 'negrito' towards him pretty much gave the FA no option. If Suarez had denied using any words of any effect then there's no way he would've gotten banned. Which is why I think he was badly advised at the start, explain it at the start not midway through.

I mean if this was let go and next weekend a player started calling someone something that could be seen as racist and he turned around and said 'oh no no, it's an affectionate term in my country' - then that's an even bigger rod for FA's back. The only way to stamp out racism/racist remarks is to stop them using any terms at all like this.

As for the 'where does it end? If I call someone a Paddy is that racist?' then I would say, why do you need to be calling anyone anything. Get on with the game, call him a pri*k or c*nt or tell him to f*ck off - but no need to add extra adjectives relating to race or heritage.

And with that I await a backlash from some L'pool fans saying their club was right etc etc. But this applies to any footballer anywhere. If it was Berbatov to Johnson for instance, I'd be saying the same thing.

GavRedKing · 21-12-2011 03:46PM

Blatter wrote: »

If he's found guilty of racism in a court of law, it's not exactly good PR for Chelsea as a football club to fully back him.

It'll be interesting to see how they handle the situation.

True, it wont be good PR at all to have your captain found guilty of racism in a court.

I'd fully expect the club to stand behind JT even if hes found guilty but to be seen to advocate anti-racism foundations and promote kicking racism out of the game at any and every opportunity and have JT play an integral part of the campaign.

tommyhaas · 21-12-2011 03:47PM

Blatter wrote: »

It's true but you have to question journalists motives at all times. For example, this is from Winter's piece this morning.

Liverpool’s statement held no punches towards Evra: “It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible – certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.’’

Liverpool were referring to Evra’s evidence being deemed “unreliable” after his run-in with a Chelsea groundsman. The bad blood flows along the Manchester Ship Canal.

Now he fails, possibly deliberately, to mention that Evra made NO claims of racial abuse in that case, a fact that's pertinent.

That's not good journalism for me.

What Winter cites there isn't necessarily a reference to Evra previously making racism allegations, but a reference to Evra's evidence in cases previously being found to be unreliable.

To suggest Evra has previously made unfounded allegations of racism is untrue. To suggest however that Evra has previously been found to be an unreliable witness in a confrontation, as Evra has been found to be is both relevant and true, and this is what Winter could be referring to

All journalists have an agenda, be it tabloids trying to sensationalise or the broadsheets trying to push their personal opinions, be they driven by loyalty or personal perspective, however from the piece you've quoted above, I don't see much wrong. He has referenced Evra's previous unfounded allegations against the Chelsea groundsman, not accused Evra of previously making unfounded racial allegations

SlickRic · 21-12-2011 03:47PM

Blatter wrote: »

More Terry quotes just in;

"I have never aimed a racist remark at anyone & count people from all races & creeds among my closest friends."

let's face it though, counting Ashley Cole as a close friend isn't something to exactly brag about.

ricero · 21-12-2011 03:49PM

decided not to comment on this thread over the last 2 days due the amount of morons commenting on this with little or no knowledge of the incidents.
firstly i have no sympathy for john terry, you live in london a place which is a cesspit of racism at the moment due to the multi cultural of the area and you are England captain. also it is clear as day you can see terry calling Ferdinand a black cnut.

as to suarez this is more complicated and at the moment i feel its a case of miss communication of what is acceptable through different cultures. also if it is true that the only evidence was evras word over suarez then its an absolute disgrace and a crime against justice.

the fa are trying to crackdown on racism but imo i think they may have started a fire

budgemook · 21-12-2011 03:50PM

On Suarez, Just spoke to my Spanish friend on IM. Here is the conversation:

Him: so what did suarez say to evra?
Him: n****r or something else?
Me: negrito
Him: negrito!
Him: eso no es ni racista
Him: that's not racist
Him: in spanish if you say negrito is a kind way to say that he is black
Him: negrito is kind
Him: negro is just black
Him: and negrata is n****r

Do we know what he said? If it's negrito or negro then it really is an awful ruling.

Luap · 21-12-2011 03:51PM

It will be interesting to see what Terry gets compared to Suarez.

Sappy404 · 21-12-2011 03:51PM

Blatter wrote: »

What if they used that evidence for context, along with Evra's word and Suaraz admitted to using the term negro?

Is it still circumstantial evidence?

TBH I'm not sure. As far as I know, enough circumstantial evidence can be seen as corroborating evidence.

The thing is, that kind of thing goes on all the time on a football pitch. And not just between players - it goes on between players and referees too. It wouldn't be corroborating Evra's claim that Suarez used certain words, but it could corroborate the context in which Evra claimed it was used if Suarez admitted to using it. Evra's admission that he referred to Suarez as a South American in a derogatory sense could be explained as a further attempt to establish context as well. It seems to have worked.

Any law-talkin' guys able to shed some light on this?

Jayob10 · 21-12-2011 03:51PM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Just a final point on the Suarez case -

I think Suarez has been really badly advised by either the club or his representatives. IMO, what happened was he called Evra negrito a few times (Suarez has admitted to using this but it's seen as an affectionate term in his country) to which Evra took offence (from a different part of the world - it's understandable). If Suarez had contacted Evra that night or the following day then he could've put it to bed straight away with a simple explanation. But instead it became trench warfare with Liverpool countering straight away to Evra's allegations with different points.

Honestly, I don't think Suarez is a racist. I think he is, however, guilty of using a term which may be construed as racist in the country he is playing in and against a player who may see it as racist. Hence the ban. Evra's recollection of events and the admission of Suarez to using 'negrito' towards him pretty much gave the FA no option. If Suarez had denied using any words of any effect then there's no way he would've gotten banned. Which is why I think he was badly advised at the start, explain it at the start not midway through.

I mean if this was let go and next weekend a player started calling someone something that could be seen as racist and he turned around and said 'oh no no, it's an affectionate term in my country' - then that's an even bigger rod for FA's back. The only way to stamp out racism/racist remarks is to stop them using any terms at all like this.

As for the 'where does it end? If I call someone a Paddy is that racist?' then I would say, why do you need to be calling anyone anything. Get on with the game, call him a pri*k or c*nt or tell him to f*ck off - but no need to add extra adjectives relating to race or heritage.

And with that I await a backlash from some L'pool fans saying their club was right etc etc. But this applies to any footballer anywhere. If it was Berbatov to Johnson for instance, I'd be saying the same thing.

Pretty much spot on synopsis to be fair.

And i'm a Liverpool fan.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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