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This gubberment is going after the pirates.

135

Comments

  • #62
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    thefly wrote: »
    Actully, the record companies need to make money to give new bands a chance.
    Well technology nowadays means any new band can record, produce and distribute their album with pretty much no cost to themselves and all returns are 100% profit going to straight to the artist.

    The Record Industry will become obsolete if they don't chance their structure, and by going down this road they're not winning any sympathy.


  • #63
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    thefly wrote: »
    Does everyone know the difference between legally and illegally downloading?

    Personally Im not a downloader. I love going into record shops and buying CDs and records ( of which I've 1000's)

    Also, to all the brain dead idiots who say record companies make too much. Actully, the record companies need to make money to give new bands a chance. it now means that unless a bands first record is a hit, chances are the band will be dropped. Gone are the days where bands can release 4-5 albums that don't enter the top 30 in the chart.

    Also, small bands can't tour as much because unless they are selling out venues, the record company can't afford for them to keep touring

    Maybe if the record companies gave us more in percentage/ratio, genuine stuff from REAL naturally talented artists than the like of Cher Lloyd, One Direction and other crap like that - people would support them more?


  • #64
    thefly
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 328 ✭✭thefly


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Well maybe you like the nightmare of shopping but I'd rather not have to drive 30 miles to go routing through selves in the hope what I'm looking for is there.

    The record companies are just making product of mass appeal, they manufacture music rather than sign artists so I'm not at all upset to hear that nonsense wouldn't be feasible any more.

    Because the record company want to make obscene amounts of money to keep themselves and their chums in Ferrari's and cocaine. **** them.

    You live 30 miles away from civilisation? I have no problem with people downloading music, so long as it's done legally.

    Like it or not it's stealing. You wouldn't steal from a shop so why steal music?


  • #65
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    thefly wrote: »
    Like it or not it's stealing.

    No it's not.

    It's not stealing by legal definition. It's not stealing by common definition. It's not stealing by any definition. It's not stealing, full stop.

    It's Copyright Infringement, which is not stealing.


    Like or not it's not stealing.


  • #66
    yoyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,017 ✭✭✭✭yoyo


    thefly wrote: »
    You live 30 miles away from civilisation? I have no problem with people downloading music, so long as it's done legally.

    Like it or not it's stealing. You wouldn't steal from a shop so why steal music?

    Downloading is not stealing, its copyright infringement. Walking into a shop and pocketing a CD you are removing a physical item, by downloading you are just creating a copy of the item. Stealing a car and downloading a movie, unlike the ads like to make you think are very very different, one being a criminal offence, the other a civil matter.
    Do you know its actually illegal to buy a DVD/CD, watch it and lend it to a friend? When you buy a DVD you buy the license to use it yourself, by sharing it with a m8 your breaching the terms of the license

    Nick

    Edit: Seachmall beat me too it :P :P

    My Beer Glass collection site 🍺

    My Irish Callcards site



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  • #67
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    thefly wrote: »
    You live 30 miles away from civilisation? I have no problem with people downloading music, so long as it's done legally.

    Like it or not it's stealing. You wouldn't steal from a shop so why steal music?

    It's copyright infringement, not stealing. They are not the same thing.


  • #68
    Duggy747
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    It's not stealing.



    It's Muuuuuuuuurder!!


  • #69
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    It's not stealing it's genocide.


  • #70
    starviewadams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    UPC already told the govt to go fúck themselves when they tried to pull this a few years ago,Eircom of course lubed up and bent over at the first opportunity.

    Hence why I'm now a UPC customer.Well that plus it's cheaper,faster and better!


  • #71
    thefly
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 328 ✭✭thefly


    Seachmall wrote: »
    No it's not.

    It's not stealing by legal definition. It's not stealing by common definition. It's not stealing by any definition. It's not stealing, full stop.

    It's Copyright Infringement, which is not stealing.


    Like or not it's not stealing.

    You are correct. Believe it or not I am a photographer and I know the difference. Wasn't thinking while I was ranting :o how embarrassing.

    Anyway, I still think it's wrong. I know when someone uses one of my images without permission, not only am I irate but out of pocket too. I have invoiced companies that have used my images without permission and only once was I paid :mad:


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  • #72
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    Seachmall wrote: »
    No it's not.

    It's not stealing by legal definition. It's not stealing by common definition. It's not stealing by any definition. It's not stealing, full stop.
    It's Copyright Infringement, which is ot stealing. Like or not it's not stealing.

    I hate that attitude.
    All this "its not stealing, its copyright infringement / duplication / whatever" is all crap. Only something to be said if you ever got caught downloading. As a defense. (officially bs like)

    Lets call a spade a spade. When you download a movie. You obtained it without buying it. Its illegal. If a gardai looked at someones 500gb hard drive, packed with downloaded stuff, they aint going to spend the next 20 minutes "debating" what downloading is ... its "right, we'll do you now. whats your name" .. so all this stealing vs copyright infringement vs duplication is all bollocks


  • #73
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    Only something to be said if you ever got caught downloading. As a defense. (officially bs like)

    I wouldn't need it as a defense because I'd never be charged with theft for downloading a film.

    Whatever BS you pulled out of my post that I never actually wrote the point of the post remains correct.

    ITS NOT STEALING.
    Lets call a spade a spade.
    And lets call "Copyright Infringement" Copyright Infringement.


  • #74
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    Seachmall wrote: »
    .....ITS NOT STEALING.

    Ok, but what about:
    thefly wrote: »
    Anyway, I still think it's wrong. I know when someone uses one of my images without permission, not only am I irate but out of pocket too. I have invoiced companies that have used my images without permission and only once was I paid mad.gif

    So say I go off and download a few dozen of his images. I am not stealing tho right? .. So I got to use his images for free. I took money out of his pocket. Them I reupload them to a new torrent created by me for other people to get.

    I have not stole anything one bit? ;) .. its just 'copyright infringement'. ignoring the fact i put him out of pocket.

    (oh and hey, i download my fair share too ;) so I aint no anti downloading fool)


  • #75
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    So say I go off and download a few dozen of his images. I am not stealing tho right? .. So I got to use his images for free. I took money out of his pocket. Them I reupload them to a new torrent created by me for other people to get.

    I have not stole anything one bit? ;) .. its just 'copyright infringement'. ignoring the fact i put him out of pocket.

    (oh and hey, i download my fair share too ;) so I aint no anti downloading fool)

    Remember the bit where you said "Lets call a spade a spade"?

    You're not doing that. You're calling a spade a club. It's not. It's a spade.

    You can redefine the words all you want but it doesn't make it so.


  • #76
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Remember the bit where you said "Lets call a spade a spade"?

    You're not doing that. You're calling a spade a club. It's not. It's a spade.

    You can redefine the words all you want but it doesn't make it so.

    And this post is completely irrelevant to anything I've said in this thread. It's a Strawman.

    I'm just arguing people are using the wrong word, you're reading what you want into that.


    fair enough.
    So there is nothing wrong with taking money out of thefly's pocket? (you kinda dodged that question)


  • #77
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    So there is nothing wrong with taking money out of thefly's pocket? (you kinda dodged that question)

    I didn't dodge the question, you built a strawman and threw that question at it.

    If you'd care to ask me what my position is instead of assuming my position you might get an answer.


    .


  • #78
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    smash wrote: »
    Yea you can.

    Whereabouts?:confused:


  • #79
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    Seachmall wrote: »
    I didn't dodge the question, you built a strawman and threw that question at it.

    If you'd care to ask me what my position is instead of assuming my position you might get an answer.


    .

    Its an honest question.
    While people generally say how the music and movie industry makes millions a year... over-charging for their products. Hence why people download. Then on the other hand we have a normal bloke just trying to make a couple of euro online (TheFly) By selling photographs he has taken. His work.

    What, you dont wanna appear to be a bad guy by saying "tough shit, fly. thats the internet" .. or "well, its only copyright infringement fly!" ;) .. but yet, as he has stated, people have taken money out of his pocket.


  • #80
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    What, you dont wanna appear to be a bad guy by saying "tough shit, fly. thats the internet" .. or "well, its only copyright infringement fly!" ;) .. but yet, as he has stated, people have taken money out of his pocket.

    No.

    You've absolutely no idea where I stand on piracy yet continue to make ludicrous assumptions and throw retarded questions my way.

    It's the very definition of a strawman.


  • #81
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Most people who pirate music wouldn't go into a shop to buy an album if they couldn't pirate a song - they just wouldn't buy it.


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  • #82
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Seachmall wrote: »
    It's the very definition of a strawman.

    This is the personification of a strawman. :pac:


  • #83
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    It's very easy to get worked up over stories like this but I wouldn't worry.

    Things change. If you aren't willing to change with them, you can bitch and moan and sick the lawyers on people and governments......But it won't get you anywhere in the end.

    "The music Industry" won't disappear like some people in here are saying, the names just change. As people have pointed out already, in this age of "piracy" movies like Avatar and games like Modern Warfare 3 break all sorts of records. The dinosaurs will go bust and the clever companies will make a killing.

    The idea that manufactured boy bands will stop just because we download is ridiculous btw.


  • #84
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    That article makes me want to pirate like crazy.


  • #85
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    <snip>

    Wrong.

    Try again.



    Or, you know, ask...


  • #86
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    You sir,
    Are a person who wants to hide behind legal technicalities. To soften the blow to your conscience. That you didnt do anything bad or wrong when you downloaded the BluRay of Cowboys and Aliens (etc). It was simple 'copyright infringement' .. That the real bad action is to go into a store and physically take the item. Thats stealing. But the digital version? hey, its only copyright infringement! ...

    Sure, I guess I am wrong then. Stealing is only defined by "To take (the property of another) without right or permission" ... guess you had that permission.

    See for me, I dont care. I admit its stealing. Cause at the end of the day if I go off now and download a torrent. Well i got that for free. No money changed hands. I didnt get permission ( :P ) ... I took it.

    You are making a major assumption. You are assuming that a person who downloads a pirate copy is doing so instead of buying the real thing. In actual fact, in the absence of piracy, the person would probably not purchase the item at all. So you are not taking money from them, you are just not giving them extra money.


  • #87
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    youcancallmeal wrote: »
    Meanwhile anyone with a vague understanding of the internet will pick one of the many ways around these 'measures'.
    That suits em just fine, when the general public has mostly stopped downloading, they can snipe the more experienced users at their leisure. Right now they can't just sue everyone, its too expensive, and too unpopular. If its just a few doing it they can.

    Of course I'd expect a sharp increase in the number of young people out protesting and getting politically involved once the free music and movies tap gets turned off, which would be an entertaining side effect to the government bustling around at the beck and call of an "industry" which only accounts for a tiny sliver of all jobs in Ireland.


  • #88
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    That you didnt do anything bad or wrong when you downloaded the BluRay of Cowboys and Aliens (etc). It was simple 'copyright infringement' .. That the real bad action is to go into a store and physically take the item. Thats stealing. But the digital version? hey, its only copyright infringement! ...

    Nobody is trying to defend the moral implications of illegal downloading. It's wrong.

    But you are trying to claim the moral implications of stealing are the same thing. It's not the same. There are plenty of sticks to beat pirates with......but by trying the whole "You wouldn't steal a leprechaun!" shtick that you and the record companies....you devalue your own cause. You take a legitmate complaint and then ruin it.

    I'll break it down simply for you so you can understand why people in the thread disagree with you LighterGuy.

    I have an picture of an orange. I drew it today. I worked hard on it. You came in and took it. You now have it. I no longer have it. You didn't pay me for it and now I can't sell it to anyone else. It's stealing and its wrong.

    I have a picture of an orange. I drew it today. I worked hard on it. You came in and took a photograph of it. You now have it. I still have it. You didn't pay me for it. I can still sell my picture because I still have it. This is copyright infringement and its wrong.

    Both are morally wrong yet they are not the same....in the same that theft and assault are not the same. You would like them to be the same because it would make your argument simpler. But they are not.


  • #89
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Fair play to the government.
    Time to stamp out piracy like this....... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056327399 & http://carrigman.blogspot.com/2011/07/dept-of-justice-uses-photo-of-mine.html


  • #90
    thefly
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 328 ✭✭thefly


    MagicSean wrote: »
    You are making a major assumption. You are assuming that a person who downloads a pirate copy is doing so instead of buying the real thing. In actual fact, in the absence of piracy, the person would probably not purchase the item at all. So you are not taking money from them, you are just not giving them extra money.


    Thats absolute b******

    The figures speak for them self. Granted, you can't attribute the entire decline in music sales from piracy alone but if piracy stopped tomorrow, I would imagine music sales would go up 10 fold!


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  • #91
    gimme5minutes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭gimme5minutes


    MagicSean wrote: »
    You are making a major assumption. You are assuming that a person who downloads a pirate copy is doing so instead of buying the real thing. In actual fact, in the absence of piracy, the person would probably not purchase the item at all. So you are not taking money from them, you are just not giving them extra money.

    You are right, the person probably wouldn't purchase the item at all...because with the amount of stuff people download for free they wouldn't have enough cash to pay for it in a shop.

    People actually used to buy CDs and DVDs. Nowadays they buy neither and download ten times as much as they ever used to buy.


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