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This gubberment is going after the pirates.

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124

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    #92
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    thefly wrote: »
    Thats absolute b******

    The figures speak for them self. Granted, you can't attribute the entire decline in music sales from piracy alone but if piracy stopped tomorrow, I would imagine music sales would go up 10 fold!

    No they wouldn't.


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    #93
    thefly
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 328 ✭✭thefly


    gimme5minutes wrote: »
    You are right, the person probably wouldn't purchase the item at all...because with the amount of stuff people download for free they wouldn't have enough cash to pay for it in a shop.

    People actually used to buy CDs and DVDs. Nowadays they buy neither and download ten times as much as they ever used to buy.


    So are you saying people would simply stop buying music?


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    #94
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    thefly wrote: »
    Thats absolute b******

    The figures speak for them self. Granted, you can't attribute the entire decline in music sales from piracy alone but if piracy stopped tomorrow, I would imagine music sales would go up 10 fold!

    Fantasy vs reality.


    Anyway, it's another attempt at getting control of the interwebs by media organisations. You'll soon be buying your internet back off some media company.


    Is that what you want?


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    #95
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    If I didn't pirate music there's a good chance I wouldn't listen to a lot of the bands I currently do and wouldn't go see them live, buy their tshirts etc

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #96
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    That suits em just fine, when the general public has mostly stopped downloading, they can snipe the more experienced users at their leisure. Right now they can't just sue everyone, its too expensive, and too unpopular. If its just a few doing it they can.

    Of course I'd expect a sharp increase in the number of young people out protesting and getting politically involved once the free music and movies tap gets turned off, which would be an entertaining side effect to the government bustling around at the beck and call of an "industry" which only accounts for a tiny sliver of all jobs in Ireland.

    Nothing changed when they closed Napster despite the same promises being made.
    thefly wrote: »
    Thats absolute b******

    The figures speak for them self. Granted, you can't attribute the entire decline in music sales from piracy alone but if piracy stopped tomorrow, I would imagine music sales would go up 10 fold!

    That's crazy. It's not piracy that has reduced cd sales, it's digital distribution in general. Itunes, Netflix and Steam have all put massive dents in physical media. Play.com and Amazon have also contributed to the reduction in shop sales. People just don't want to trek to a shop and pay a high price for a cd when they can easily download the songs they like on Itunes or order the cd for cheaper and have it delivered to the door.
    gimme5minutes wrote: »
    You are right, the person probably wouldn't purchase the item at all...because with the amount of stuff people download for free they wouldn't have enough cash to pay for it in a shop.

    People actually used to buy CDs and DVDs. Nowadays they buy neither and download ten times as much as they ever used to buy.

    People don't buy cd's and dvd's for the same reason they no longer by cassettes or records.


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    #97
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    MagicSean wrote: »
    That's crazy. It's not piracy that has reduced cd sales, it's digital distribution in general. Itunes, Netflix and Steam have all put massive dents in physical media. Play.com and Amazon have also contributed to the reduction in shop sales. People just don't want to trek to a shop and pay a high price for a cd when they can easily download the songs they like on Itunes or order the cd for cheaper and have it delivered to the door.
    CD shops tend to have a poor selection anyway I find, only way find a lot of things is to source it online

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #98
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Who still buys cds?


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    #99
    johnboysligo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭johnboysligo


    RichieC wrote: »
    Who still buys cds?

    not enough people according to the record companies


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    #100
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    RichieC wrote: »
    Who still buys cds?

    In fairness, I do. Buy everything retail if possible. Prolly a third of what I have on the shelves is second hand. Which leads to another point.

    How do the artists re-coup their earnings from the sale of second hand CDs?
    We gonna outlaw that too?


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    #101
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    squod wrote: »
    In fairness, I do. Buy everything retail if possible. Prolly a third of what I have on the shelves is second hand. Which leads to another point.

    How do the artists re-coup their earnings from the sale of second hand CDs?
    We gonna outlaw that too?

    They don't. It's a major problem in the games industry with shops selling second hand games and not contributing to the developers. It's a major factor in developers moving to digital distribution.


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    #102
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    MagicSean wrote: »
    They don't. It's a major problem in the games industry with shops selling second hand games and not contributing to the developers. It's a major factor in developers moving to digital distribution.

    It's as bad as illegal downloading then? IRMA haven't closed any record stores have they?

    Proves my point
    squod wrote: »
    Anyway, it's another attempt at getting control of the interwebs by media organisations. You'll soon be buying your internet back off some media company.

    The internet was given to us by it's creator FOC. Now some idiot suits want control of it to line their pockets. Fuhk off suits.


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    #103
    farna_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭farna_boy


    the_syco wrote: »
    Most people who pirate music wouldn't go into a shop to buy an album if they couldn't pirate a song - they just wouldn't buy it.
    thefly wrote: »
    Thats absolute b******

    The figures speak for them self. Granted, you can't attribute the entire decline in music sales from piracy alone but if piracy stopped tomorrow, I would imagine music sales would go up 10 fold!

    There have been numerous reports and investigations that have found that these "pirates" frequently they are the ones who buy more music, films etc than the average person. A quick google and you can find these two examples:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/236214/study_casts_pirate_site_users_in_good_light.html

    Can either of you post links to support your theories? So far, I can see the figures are speaking for themselves, but they are just not saying what you want.


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    #104
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    squod wrote: »
    It's as bad as illegal downloading then? IRMA haven't closed any record stores have they?

    Proves my point



    The internet was given to us by it's creator FOC. Now some idiot suits want control of it to line their pockets. Fuhk off suits.

    I'm unsure as to what your point is actually.
    farna_boy wrote: »
    There have been numerous reports and investigations that have found that these "pirates" frequently they are the ones who buy more music, films etc than the average person. A quick google and you can find these two examples:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/236214/study_casts_pirate_site_users_in_good_light.html

    Can either of you post links to support your theories? So far, I can see the figures are speaking for themselves, but they are just not saying what you want.

    So despite being the most likely to buy media they still don't buy the stuff they pirated. I see that as a strong indicator that they wouldn't have bought the stuff they pirated.


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    #105
    Johro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Oh..
    Those pirates... Am disappointed.


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    #106
    Robdude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Robdude


    Eh - I know this is *unpopular* but I've seen way too many people have near-instant access to every song, tv show, and movie they would have gladly purchased 10 or 15 years ago; who don't pay a single penny for any of it.

    If you want to record a song, create a TV show, or make a movie; and then give it away on the internet - go for it. More power to you. But 99.99999% of people who pirate would FLIP OUT if they thought someone else was pirating content they created.


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    #107
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    MagicSean wrote: »
    People don't buy cd's and dvd's for the same reason they no longer by cassettes or records.

    Load of bollocks mate.

    CD sales have dropped but still plenty people buy them.
    DVD sales have dropped but still plenty people buy them.
    Vinyl sales are up and have been increasing since 2001 or so. The second hand market is huge.
    Cassettes don't really sell but they suck anyway.

    I download too but only to check things out. Some people can't get over the fact that others prefer physical formats.

    Collecting MP3s is like collecting farts in a jar.


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    #108
    Butterbumps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Butterbumps


    Re: the effect of piracy on sales, and whether would-be pirates would buy things if they couldn't pirate, here's an interesting link.

    Basic summary: a game company found that one of their games had a piracy rate of 92% (i.e. 92% of people playing it had obtained it illegally). They tried various methods of reducing piracy, and figured out that for every 1000 fewer illegal downloads, they gained one extra sale.


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    #109
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    Collecting MP3s is like collecting farts in a jar.
    I've a few turns of special high tech audio cable that will make your listening experience even better, PM me for more details...

    :rolleyes:


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    #110
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    thefly wrote: »
    Thats absolute b******

    The figures speak for them self. Granted, you can't attribute the entire decline in music sales from piracy alone but if piracy stopped tomorrow, I would imagine music sales would go up 10 fold!
    I'll tell you how much bullsh|t it is: if piracy was to stop tomorrow, cassette tape sales would go up 10 fold :pac: :rolleyes:


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    #111
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    I've a few turns of special high tech audio cable that will make your listening experience even better, PM me for more details...

    :rolleyes:

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=271501


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    #112
    thefly
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 328 ✭✭thefly


    RichieC wrote: »
    Who still buys cds?

    I do, about once a week


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    #113
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    The New York man who admitted to uploading an unfinished copy of X-Men Origins: Wolverine to the Internet has been sentenced to one year in federal prison, the U.S. attorney's office said Monday. Gilberto Sanchez, who said he bought a copy of the 2009 Hugh Jackman superhero movie on a street corner near his home in the Bronx, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Margaret Morrow, who described his actions as "extremely serious."

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/x-men-wolverine-pirate-sentenced-hugh-jackman-275453


    I remember hearing that the movie got leaked at the time. It was an unfinished copy. Missing cgi bits. So obviously it getting leaked before the movie could be finished was well worse than some kid uploading the final copy on the net ... but still. A year.

    And when you think of it? for what? To let other people you dont know to download from you and you take the rap? Utter stupid.


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    #114
    Pdfile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭Pdfile


    smash wrote: »
    Doubt they'll get away with it. Not everything on sites like the pirate bay are illegal or copyright.

    And this bs:
    "Official figures show that CD sales in the Republic fell from €146 million in 2006 to €56 million last year."

    Seriously, People use itunes etc ffs.

    not only that but have ye heard music lately ??

    ive spent about 50 quid on music in the last 2 years, all of which was 4 albums, all by indie label folks who needed the money anyways, the music i downloaded ive owned anyways, the CD is fcuked so i burnt a new copy replacing my out of service one, no harm done.


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    #115
    cursai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Pdfile wrote: »
    not only that but have ye heard music lately ??

    ive spent about 50 quid on music in the last 2 years, all of which was 4 albums, all by indie label folks who needed the money anyways, the music i downloaded ive owned anyways, the CD is fcuked so i burnt a new copy replacing my out of service one, no harm done.
    Oops careful. Sorry had to call IMRO. That's pirating that is. aaaarghhhh!
    Haven't bought a CD in years. Music still sounds as good as it ever did.


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    #116
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    MagicSean wrote: »
    You are making a major assumption. You are assuming that a person who downloads a pirate copy is doing so instead of buying the real thing. In actual fact, in the absence of piracy, the person would probably not purchase the item at all. So you are not taking money from them, you are just not giving them extra money.

    Ya know, I kind of can dig what Seachmall was saying about Copyright Infringement. But what you are saying is a totally different thing. And ... I dont know what planet you're living on :pac:

    Millions and millions of people download around the world. We can agree on that. But are you honestly going to say that any good sized percentage of them download only to decide to buy or not? :P

    Dude, people download because its free. Because they are getting something without paying for it. Not to try it like a demo. Yeah sure, that 1 person out of a 1000 might do that. But whats he to the other 999? lol.
    gimme5minutes wrote: »
    You are right, the person probably wouldn't purchase the item at all...because with the amount of stuff people download for free they wouldn't have enough cash to pay for it in a shop. People actually used to buy CDs and DVDs. Nowadays they buy neither and download ten times as much as they ever used to buy.

    You said it best.
    Personally I think all that "oh i only download to see if i wanna buy it" is one of the most bull****test lies I have ever heard in my life :pac:
    Take a person who bought 10 albums last year after downloading. You'd still find the other 40 albums he downloaded without buying on his ipod ;)


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    #117
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    Ya know, I kind of can dig what Seachmall was saying about Copyright Infringement. But what you are saying is a totally different thing. And ... I dont know what planet you're living on :pac:

    Millions and millions of people download around the world. We can agree on that. But are you honestly going to say that any good sized percentage of them download only to decide to buy or not? :P

    Dude, people download because its free. Because they are getting something without paying for it. Not to try it like a demo. Yeah sure, that 1 person out of a 1000 might do that. But whats he to the other 999? lol.

    That wasn't his point at all. Like a lot of people I have little or no savings so if I were a pirate it's not as if I'd be in a position to buy more music or films in the absence of piracy.


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    #118
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    amacachi wrote: »
    That wasn't his point at all. Like a lot of people I have little or no savings so if I were a pirate it's not as if I'd be in a position to buy more music or films in the absence of piracy.

    Im willing to bet you are :pac:

    But I know what you are saying. You, like me too, arent in a financial position to randomly buy alot of dvds, music or games etc. But in the event of all piracy is stopped profits would still go up hugely for the companies.

    Because people will always want things. And since they cant get them for free anymore, A hell of alot more people would buy. Illregardless of in a financial position or not.
    Look at the current times. Take ipads, ipods, MP3 players, Mobile phones and the like. Thousands get sold each week in Ireland. Apart from that you still see people buying in shops like river island, debenhams etc. Easily dropping 50+ on a shirt or dress. Yet alot of people dont have alot of money. But people still want things.


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    #119
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    starviewadams wrote: »
    .Hence why I'm now a UPC customer.Well that plus it's cheaper,faster and better!

    **** off Craig! I'm not getting UPC, no matter how many billboards you're on!


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    #120
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    It is a pile of rubbish, they calculate their losses by saying that if everyone who pirated the movie The Guard went to the cinema then it would have made x amount. No it wouldn't because the vast majority of those people didn't really care that much about seeing The Guard and would never have watched it and then never spoke to their friends about it who might never have seen it etc.

    Most of the pirates I know are the taste makers of their social group they know about a new band or film that's making waves that their friends would never hear of thus increasing interest.

    Anti piracy laws do not work, they are stupid and a waste of time and money. If companies want people to buy their products, make them better, make them easier to get, this part is very important and is the only reason iTunes worked, you have to make it not worth peoples while to pirate.And don't charge them extortionate amounts.

    I won't buy a CD in Ireland, if I am buying one and that's very rare now it will be from amazon. The prices of CD's is insane, my sister asked me to get her a CD for Xmas, the cheapest I could find it for was €18, I got it off amazon for £10. Why would I buy that CD locally, they have no loyalty to me why should I to them.


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    #121
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    Im willing to bet you are :pac:

    But I know what you are saying. You, like me too, arent in a financial position to randomly buy alot of dvds, music or games etc. But in the event of all piracy is stopped profits would still go up hugely for the companies.

    Because people will always want things. And since they cant get them for free anymore, A hell of alot more people would buy. Illregardless of in a financial position or not.
    Look at the current times. Take ipads, ipods, MP3 players, Mobile phones and the like. Thousands get sold each week in Ireland. Apart from that you still see people buying in shops like river island, debenhams etc. Easily dropping 50+ on a shirt or dress. Yet alot of people dont have alot of money. But people still want things.

    There was a games company tried locking down their games (thought it was posted in this thread earlier but I must've come across it elsewhere) and while piracy would go down quite a bit there would be a decrese of 100s of pirate copies for each extra purchase.

    In terms of music I'm surprised that CD sales haven't fallen further. Add in iTunes and the like and a fair amount of the apparent fall will be wiped out and that's before taking the current economic climate into account.
    I would've thought also that the availability of youtube (any song, any time) and music video TV channels would be "responsible" for people listening to music without paying for it to a pretty huge extent.


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