Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 11:48AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Would you say "get your hands off me South American"?.

Nope, but then, I'm not defending Evra am I?

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm really not proving your point at all I'm afraid Des.

Yes you are, thanks

Mr Alan wrote: »

By the latest version of events, Evra brought ethnicity into the fold, Suarez responded in kind with the correct term (which is not, nor has it ever been "abusive" which is the charge levelled at him). One is facing a charge of racism, the other, nothing. You wanna talk about "racism", that's the only think racist about this case tbh.

Evra may have brought it to the yard, but Suarez stepped over the line, so he got charged.

Nalz · 15-12-2011 11:51AM

Comedian Chris Rock's routine "Niggas vs. Black People" distinguishes a nigga, which he defined as a "low-expectation-having mother****er", from a "black person". In contrast, Tupac Shakur distinguished between ****** and nigga: "**** was the ones on the rope, hanging off the thing; niggas is the ones with gold ropes, hanging out at clubs.

Maybe Suarez was paying Evra a compliment

. The worlds gone mad and this is ridiculous argument! Arguing over what's politically correct and against the law, a clubs future and a man's career could be at stake her yet there is millions of people making money using this term and millions of people queueing up to purchase the shít.

fa shaow.

SlickRic · 15-12-2011 11:53AM

if Evra is proved to be lying, then it's ridiculous that he wouldn't even get some sort of slap on the wrist at least.

if Evra can't be punished by anyone, then hosts of players can waste the FA's time and take umbrage with some opponent they believe has abused them if they feel like it.

i mean, Yaya Touré should complain to the FA and say that he and Mata's handbags on Monday were as a result of Mata being naughty with something he said to him. greasy Spaniard

.

i assume at the very least Evra would have to pay Suarez's legal costs or something.

15-12-2011 11:53AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

****** is racially abusive. Negro is the correct term for a person of that ethnicity.

don't think I've heard a black person refer to themselves as a negro in my life, whether on tv or films made after I was born or in my admittedly limited interaction with them in RL. I would call him a black man no problem but I think negro has been moved to being a racist term due to it sounding quite close to the other word...

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 11:55AM

Des wrote: »

Nope, but then, I'm not defending Evra am I?

So you think he should be charged?

Des wrote:

Evra may have brought it to the yard, but Suarez stepped over the line, so he got charged.

No, no. By the latest version of events, no one stepped over the line.
Apart from possibly Evra when he accused the ref of only booking him because he is black.

Again, Des (you little wriggler you), complete this sentence, "Mr Alan is a caucasian male, Patrice Evra is a . . . . . . . "

The politically correct answer is black/negro.

This case really has descended into farce if the latest version of events is true.

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 11:55AM

Liam O wrote: »

don't think I've heard a black person refer to themselves as a negro in my life, whether on tv or films made after I was born or in my admittedly limited interaction with them in RL. I would call him a black man no problem but I think negro has been moved to being a racist term due to it sounding quite close to the other word...

Have you never heard the MLK "I have a dream" speech as quoted by Alan in this thread?

He made it 50 years ago, in a time when Negro was an accepted term to refer to Black people, so that makes it ok for Suarez to sue it.

In Alan's mind.

Leiva · 15-12-2011 11:56AM

Liam O wrote: »

don't think I've heard a black person refer to themselves as a negro in my life, whether on tv or films made after I was born or in my admittedly limited interaction with them in RL. I would call him a black man no problem but I think negro has been moved to being a racist term due to it sounding quite close to the other word...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7aJl3RcMA

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 11:57AM

Liam O wrote: »

don't think I've heard a black person refer to themselves as a negro in my life, whether on tv or films made after I was born or in my admittedly limited interaction with them in RL. I would call him a black man no problem but I think negro has been moved to being a racist term due to it sounding quite close to the other word...

So because the word sounds quite like another word, its now unacceptable?!

say what now!?

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 11:57AM

Des wrote: »

Have you never heard the MLK "I have a dream" speech as quoted by Alan in this thread?

He made it 50 years ago, in a time when Negro was an accepted term to refer to Black people, so that makes it ok for Suarez to sue it.

In Alan's mind.

Wriggler, politically correct term for a black man please......

Crazy Horse 6 · 15-12-2011 11:58AM

This is a bizarre thread. Gonna be fun one way or another tomorrow.

MagicMarker · 15-12-2011 11:58AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Again, Des (you little wriggler you), complete this sentence, "Mr Alan is a caucasian male, Patrice Evra is a . . . . . . . "

Black man.

Do I win a prize?

killwill · 15-12-2011 11:59AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So you think he should be charged?

No, no. By the latest version of events, no one stepped over the line.
Apart from possibly Evra when he accused the ref of only booking him because he is black.

Again, Des (you little wriggler you), complete this sentence, "Mr Alan is a caucasian male, Patrice Evra is a HUMAN BEING. "

The politically correct answer is black/negro.

This case really has descended into farce if the latest version of events is true.

Why differentiate?

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:00PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So you think he should be charged?

Nope.

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, no. By the latest version of events, no one stepped over the line.

Suarez did when he brought the word "Negro" into it.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Apart from possibly Evra when he accused the ref of only booking him because he is black.

I agree. And if Evra did say that, he should face sanction. No question.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Again, Des (you little wriggler you), complete this sentence, "Mr Alan is a caucasian male, Patrice Evra is a . . . . . . . "

Negro.

That's an English word though.

Mr Alan wrote: »

The politically correct answer is black/negro.

Yes, in English.

Morzadec · 15-12-2011 12:01PM

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before but the word 'negrito' in Spanish can mean 'bold', as in 'cheeky' (look it up on google translate). I play football in a 5 a side league in Spain and I'm pretty sure I heard someone say it when someone tried to claim a throw-in.

By all intents and purposes 'negrito' is NOT an offensive word in Spanish, especially in Latin American Spanish. Read this thread here http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=174859

A lot of it is in Spanish, but the jist is that 'negrito' or even 'negro' is by no means as loaded a term as '******' in English. It's a cultural difference as well as a language difference.

I work as an English teacher in SPain and I've had students refer to black people as '****', and I explained to them that it is not as acceptable term to use to describe black people. Are they racist? Not at all. Simply some of them are not aware of the seriousness and connotations of the term.

As far as I'm concerned, Suarez said something that in his language/culture is not at all racist and Evra misconstrued it.

Is Suarez a racist? No.

Is Evra a liar? No.

If he indeed used the word, Suarez is guilty of perhaps not understanding the linguistic significance and historical racial connotations of the way 'negro' or 'negrito' could be construed in England/France.

Evra is guilty of misunderstanding Suarez's intentions and perhaps overreacting, and not reflecting on what the actual significance of what Suarez said was.

In my opinion anyway

15-12-2011 12:01PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So because the word sounds quite like another word, its now unacceptable?!

say what now!?

no because the word has racial connotations and offends black people when they are called it then it's unacceptable.

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:01PM

Morzadec wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before but the word 'negrito' in Spanish can mean 'bold', as in 'cheeky' (look it up on google translate). I play football in a 5 a side league in Spain and I'm pretty sure I heard someone say it when someone tried to claim a throw-in.

By all intents and purposes 'negrito' is NOT an offensive word in Spanish, especially in Latin American Spanish. Read this thread here http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=174859

A lot of it is in Spanish, but the jist is that 'negrito' or even 'negro' is by no means as loaded a term as '******' in English. It's a cultural difference as well as a language difference.

I work as an English teacher and I've had students refer to black people as '****', and I explained to them that it is not as acceptable term to use to describe black people. Are they racist? Not at all. Simply some of them are not aware of the seriousness and connotations of the term.

As far as I'm concerned, Suarez said something that in his language/culture is not at all racist and Evra misconstrued it.

Is Suarez a racist? No.

Is Evra a liar? No.

If he indeed used the word, Suarez is guilty of perhaps not understanding the linguistic significance and historical racial connotations of the way 'negro' or 'negrito' could be construed in England/France.

Evra is guilty of misunderstanding Suarez's intentions and perhaps overreacting, and not reflecting on what the actual significance of what Suarez said was.

In my opinion anyway

He didn't say negrito.

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:02PM

Liam O wrote: »

no because the word has racial connotations and offends black people when they are called it then it's unacceptable.

Mr Alan should go out at lunch time and call ten black men Negro, and report back.

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 12:03PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Black man.

Do I win a prize?

No.

But the crux of this case appears to be Suarez is an alleged racist for referring to a black man, as black.

The world has officially gone mad.

15-12-2011 12:04PM

Des wrote: »

Mr Alan should go out at lunch time and call ten black men Negro, and report back.

I can't see this going well.

If it goes badly get the hippo

Nalz · 15-12-2011 12:05PM

Des wrote: »

Mr Alan should go out at lunch time and call ten black men Negro, and report back.

or call ten fat men, fat. and report back!

ma niggas!

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:05PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No.

But the crux of this case appears to be Suarez is an alleged racist for referring to a black man, as black.

The world has officially gone mad.

I've already said in this thread that I don't think Suarez is a racist.

Are you ignoring that to suit your own agenda of defedning the undefendable?

Cool, just wanted to clear that up.

15-12-2011 12:05PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No.

But the crux of this case appears to be Suarez is an alleged racist for referring to a black man, as black.

The world has officially gone mad.

he referred to a black man as a negro though, not as black.

iregk · 15-12-2011 12:07PM

Luis Suarez is Rex Kramer "Danger Seeker"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7S5BP-tvR8

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 12:07PM

killwill wrote: »

Why differentiate?

Presumably for the same reason Evra felt the need to refer to Suarez as South American.

=========

Des, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, apparently you think its racist to say a black man is black. I don't. Its a sad indictment of the society we live in that this is even being discussed to be honest.

MagicMarker · 15-12-2011 12:10PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No.

But the crux of this case appears to be Suarez is an alleged racist for referring to a black man, as black.

The world has officially gone mad.

Well according to my dictionary mobile app, ****** also means a 'black person' or member of any 'dark skinned people'.

If Suaraz had called Evra a ****** would you still be defending him?

Secondly, why is any person playing a game of football referring to another's race at all, if it's not for negative purposes.

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:11PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Des, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, apparently you think its racist to say a black man is black. I don't. Its a sad indictment of the society we live in that this is even being discussed to be honest.

I don't think it's racist to say a black man is black. Stop being such a silly sausage and making stuff up about me, it makes you look incredibly foolish.

But I do think it's very, very stupid to call a black man a negro, during an argument especially, and expect him to not react. I think Suarez did it on purpose, to get the reaction he got, and I tihnk he should be charged for that. He should be charged for bringing race into the argument, something Evra did not do, last time I checked "South American" is not a race.

MagicMarker · 15-12-2011 12:12PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Des, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, apparently you think its racist to say a black man is black. I don't. Its a sad indictment of the society we live in that this is even being discussed to be honest.

Alright so, next time you meet a black guy refer to him as a negro, let us know how you get on.

It's a sad indictment of yourself that you're even trying to defend this tbh.

15-12-2011 12:12PM

Trilla wrote: »

or call ten fat men, fat. and report back!

ma niggas!

H. Lewis Smith, author of Bury that Sucka: A Scandalous Affair with the N-word, believes that "replacing the 'er' with an 'a' changes nothing other than the pronunciation".

Probably wise not to continue down that path. I definitely wouldn't call a black person a nigga :eek:

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 12:12PM

Liam O wrote: »

he referred to a black man as a negro though, not as black.

1) I don't think it matters, negro is the dictionary correct term for someone of Evra's ethnicity.
2) Both players are fluent Spanish speakers. Negro means black in Spanish.

If Suarez called him negrito, negro or black (in Spanish), he should not face sanction.

If Suarez called him ******. He should. That's the end of it imo.

Lads anyone noticed, every post I write with the work nigger in, it gets censored out, yet negro doesn't. That really answers your question.

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 12:13PM

Des wrote: »

He should be charged for bringing race into the argument, something Evra did not do, last time I checked "South American" is not a race.

So racism is bad. Xenophobia is ok.

Cool, I'm with you now.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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