Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

killwill · 15-12-2011 12:15PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Presumably for the same reason Evra felt the need to refer to Suarez as South American.

=========

Des, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, apparently you think its racist to say a black man is black. I don't. Its a sad indictment of the society we live in that this is even being discussed to be honest.

Did Evra or Suarez come out and say Evra called him a South American?
I don't think so.

As for the highlighted bit, it has been clearly pointed out the issue is not that he said Evra was black, it was the use of the word Nrgro and the context it was used in.

manual_man · 15-12-2011 12:15PM

The point is we, as a society, have put a negative connotation on the word black in relation to skin colour. This in itself is totally racist, and to call someone racist for using the word is a total contradiction in terms. Black, black, black, black, white, half-caste. There. They're all skin colours and they're something we shouldn't be ashamed of. Grow up world

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:15PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So racism is bad. Xenophobia is ok.

Cool, I'm with you now.

To use your own reasoning, he called him South American - not a South American X, Y or Z.

Is Suarez not South American? It should be ok for him to do that, according to you, so why do you want Evra charged?

15-12-2011 12:16PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

1) I don't think it matters, negro is the dictionary correct term for someone of Evra's ethnicity.
2) Both players are fluent Spanish speakers. Negro means black in Spanish.

If Suarez called him negrito, negro or black (in Spanish), he should not face sanction.

If Suarez called him ******. He should. That's the end of it imo.

Lads anyone noticed, every post I write with the work nigger in, it gets censored out, yet negro doesn't. That really answers your question.

like in the one above, nigga doesn't get censored out so is that ok now?

Suarez was using the term in a racist way imo, he knew that it was causing Evra distress and still used it, were they speaking Spanish or English at the time btw.

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:17PM

Liam O wrote: »

like in the one above, nigga doesn't get censored out so is that ok now?

Suarez was using the term in a racist way imo, he knew that it was causing Evra distress and still used it, were they speaking Spanish or English at the time btw.

Suarez was speaking Spanish, Evra was minding his own business and getting racially abused for his trouble.

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 12:17PM

Des wrote: »

To use your own reasoning, he called him South American - not a South American X, Y or Z.

Is Suarez not South American? It should be ok for him to do that, according to you, so why do you want Evra charged?

I've already said I think no one crossed any line in the altercation between the pair.

Lads, you can't pick & choose what version of events to believe.....people keep going on about him saying it over & over again, the latest version is that it was said once is it not?

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:19PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I've already said I think no one crossed any line in the altercation between the pair.

yeah, but I ignored that to make a point, like you did to me earlier.

herbieflowers · 15-12-2011 12:20PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

2) Both players are fluent Spanish speakers. Negro means black in Spanish.

If Suarez called him negrito, negro or black (in Spanish), he should not face sanction.

You're half-right. From someone living in Spain, "Negro" can also refer to a black person.

tommyhaas · 15-12-2011 12:20PM

On the face of the charge, its difficult to see how Suarez could get off. He's been charged with abusing Evra, and referring to his "ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race''.

He was winding Evra up through out the game and intentionally or not, made reference to the colour of Evra's skin. I would have thought any defence such as the cultural differences would only serve to reduce any possible ban length, as regardless of the cultural difference, the charge states ''referring to his...'' as oppose to ''intentionally referring to his...'', and Suarez has apparently admitted using the term, making the charge difficult to refute

killwill · 15-12-2011 12:21PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

On the face of the charge, its difficult to see how Suarez could get off. He's been charged with abusing Evra, and referring to his "ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race''.

He was winding Evra up through out the game and intentionally or not, made reference to the colour of Evra's skin. I would have thought any defence such as the cultural differences would only serve to reduce any possible ban length, as regardless of the cultural difference, the charge states ''referring to his...'' as oppose to ''intentionally referring to his...'', and Suarez has apparently admitted using the term

good point, case closed!!!!!

JimsAlterEgo · 15-12-2011 12:22PM

killwill wrote: »

Did Evra or Suarez come out and say Evra called him a South American?
I don't think so.

As for the highlighted bit, it has been clearly pointed out the issue is not that he said Evra was black, it was the use of the word Nrgro and the context it was used in.

correct, context is everyting

Nalz · 15-12-2011 12:26PM

Suarez was an idiot to say it if he did actually say it but I'm with Mr Alan on this. There should be nothing wrong with saying the word negro but he's a fool for saying it.

Like I said before turn on MTV during the day and there's the most awful "music" ever for all to hear with the words nigga/niggér amongst others. World has gone mad. What are they going to charge Suarez with... saying "negro"? The context in which is was used?

I don't blame Evra for getting upset I just wish none of this had happened.

Cantona's Collars · 15-12-2011 12:29PM

With all the furore over Suarez I think it has been missed that the Crown Prosecution Service has received new previously unseen footage of Terry and Anton Ferdinand's row.It hasn't been stated what the footage actually reveals but if it helps prove that Terry did racially abuse Ferdinand it doesn't look good for him.

According to the media Suarez has stated that he did use the word Negro once but Liverpool are claiming it's a language mix up:rolleyes:

Mr Alan · 15-12-2011 12:30PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

You're half-right. From someone living in Spain, "Negro" can also refer to a black person.

Cool.

tommyhaas wrote: »

On the face of the charge, its difficult to see how Suarez could get off. He's been charged with abusing Evra, and referring to his "ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race''.

He was winding Evra up through out the game and intentionally or not, made reference to the colour of Evra's skin. I would have thought any defence such as the cultural differences would only serve to reduce any possible ban length, as regardless of the cultural difference, the charge states ''referring to his...'' as oppose to ''intentionally referring to his...'', and Suarez has apparently admitted using the term, making the charge difficult to refute

So then we gotta wonder why Suarez has been charged & Evra hasn't if the latest version of events is true. Both players were abusive & made reference to "ethnic original and/or colour and/or race".

manual_man · 15-12-2011 12:32PM

I wonder would the same be happening if a black player referred to a white player as "white boy". I think not

Leiva · 15-12-2011 12:32PM

Trilla wrote: »

Suarez was an idiot to say it if he did actually say it but I'm with Mr Alan on this. There should be nothing wrong with saying the word negro but he's a fool for saying it.

Like I said before turn on MTV during the day and there's the most awful "music" ever for all to hear with the words nigga/niggér amongst others. World has gone mad. What are they going to charge Suarez with... saying "negro"? The context in which is was used?

I don't blame Evra for getting upset I just wish none of this had happened.

If Suarez is found guilty i can see it been dragged on and on .

LFC will bring it to a higher court .cause after all who are the FA to decide and label someone a racist or not .

This is gonna boil down to a matter of opinion and it would be ridiculous for the FA to make such a big call .

That is unless the have clear video evidence and a bunch of witnesses .

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:33PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Cool.

So then we gotta wonder why Suarez has been charged & Evra hasn't if the latest version of events is true. Both players were abusive & made reference to "ethnic original and/or colour and/or race".

How was Evra abusive?

"Don't touch me you South American" is not abuive in any way, and I don't know how you can claim it is.

manual_man · 15-12-2011 12:38PM

Des wrote: »

Mr Alan wrote: »

Cool.

So then we gotta wonder why Suarez has been charged & Evra hasn't if the latest version of events is true. Both players were abusive & made reference to "ethnic original and/or colour and/or race".

How was Evra abusive?

"Don't touch me you South American" is not abuive in any way, and I don't know how you can claim it is.

You've got to be f***ing kidding me

JimsAlterEgo · 15-12-2011 12:38PM

manual_man wrote: »

I wonder would the same be happening if a black player referred to a white player as "white boy". I think not

are you actually serious?

Leiva · 15-12-2011 12:38PM

Des wrote: »

How was Evra abusive?

"Don't touch me you South American" is not abuive in any way, and I don't know how you can claim it is.

Ahh Des come on .

There was no reason what so ever for Evra to say "south american"

why not just say ..

"Dont touch me "

_blank_ · 15-12-2011 12:39PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Ahh Des come on .

There was no reason what so ever for Evra to say "south american"

why not just say ..

"Dont touch me "

Can't touch this.

JimsAlterEgo · 15-12-2011 12:39PM

mixednuts wrote: »

If Suarez is found guilty i can see it been dragged on and on .

LFC will bring it to a higher court .cause after all who are the FA to decide and label someone a racist or not .

This is gonna boil down to a matter of opinion and it would be ridiculous for the FA to make such a big call .

That is unless the have clear video evidence and a bunch of witnesses .

but hes admitted saying it

manual_man · 15-12-2011 12:39PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

I wonder would the same be happening if a black player referred to a white player as "white boy". I think not

are you actually serious?

Why the hell not?

JimsAlterEgo · 15-12-2011 12:42PM

Des wrote: »

Can't touch this.

just spit my coffee on the keyboard:D

Leiva · 15-12-2011 12:43PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

just spit my coffee on the keyboard:D

easily amused ?

IITYWYBMAD · 15-12-2011 12:43PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

just spit my coffee on the keyboard:D

Black or White?

tommyhaas · 15-12-2011 01:08PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So then we gotta wonder why Suarez has been charged & Evra hasn't if the latest version of events is true. Both players were abusive & made reference to "ethnic original and/or colour and/or race".

Possibly because Suarez didn't make an official complaint about the incident, while Evra did

manual_man wrote: »

I wonder would the same be happening if a black player referred to a white player as "white boy". I think not

The Police questioned El Hadj Diouf about calling a ball boy vanilla or something similar at Goodison a few years back, don't think anything came of it though

The whole thing's just messy IMO. As I said earlier, on the face of the charge its a difficult one for Suarez to defend. However the cultural misunderstanding, coupled with Evra's apparent comments, the fact (if true) that Evra is commonly called that by his teammates and the lack of video evidence (I'm assuming Suarez admitting using the term, coupled with Evra's statement, is the only evidence against him) should all stand in Suarez's favour, with the last point perhaps demonstrating his integrity and adding substance to the cultural misunderstanding claims

Kess73 · 15-12-2011 01:12PM

Des wrote: »

How was Evra abusive?

"Don't touch me you South American" is not abuive in any way, and I don't know how you can claim it is.

Actually it could be. Similar to whatever Suarez said, the context of how it was said comes into play.

If Evra said that, and to be honest we only have the newspaper article that is saying that, then it could just as easily be argued that it was meant in an offensive manner as a non offensive manner.

The comment that he is alleged to have said to the ref could cause him some hassle though and damage his credibility in this case. If the ref gets called in and it gets confirmed that Evra tried to use the race card with the ref during the game, then it could open another can of worms for the FA to sift through.

15-12-2011 01:15PM

Liam O wrote: »

When Suarez said it, whether it was negro or a more sinister term and Evra reacted he definitely shouldn't have kept going with it. Negro is a word that I haven't heard any white person ever call a black person and unless they were extremely comfortable with each other then I doubt it would be accepted. Negro may mean black in Spanish but since it began to be used by slavers in America the word changed meaning.

MLK may have said it but that was to refer to the group and same as if Jim Larkin or something said that 'they think we're all paddys'. Wouldn't be the same as if an American came over now and started calling people Paddy or Mick as a friendly term.

Of course not in Ireland.

What about Uraguay?

What re talking about in the last paragraph?

manual_man · 15-12-2011 01:16PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Mr Alan wrote: »

So then we gotta wonder why Suarez has been charged & Evra hasn't if the latest version of events is true. Both players were abusive & made reference to "ethnic original and/or colour and/or race".

Possibly because Suarez didn't make an official complaint about the incident, while Evra did

manual_man wrote: »

I wonder would the same be happening if a black player referred to a white player as "white boy". I think not

The Police questioned El Hadj Diouf about calling a ball boy vanilla or something similar at Goodison a few years back, don't think anything came of it though

The whole thing's just messy IMO. As I said earlier, on the face of the charge its a difficult one for Suarez to defend. However the cultural misunderstanding, coupled with Evra's apparent comments, the fact (if true) that Evra is commonly called that by his teammates and the lack of video evidence (I'm assuming Suarez admitting using the term, coupled with Evra's statement, is the only evidence against him) should all stand in Suarez's favour, with the last point perhaps demonstrating his integrity and adding substance to the cultural misunderstanding claims

Yes i agree that it's messy. But i will point out that this is by no means the first time Evra has been involved in altercations with fellow players. He comes across to me as a confrontational, angry little man, and tbh for this reason i think half of what he says isn't taken seriously by people. He brings alot of sh** on himself

The charge is a serious one

But personally i think it was a misunderstanding and that all involved should man up and move on

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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