General Star Trek thread

G-Money · 10-12-2011 11:50am #1

I thought it might be an idea for us to start a general Star Trek thread to discuss anything and everything related to Trek.

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 now, I'm being reminded how funny Quark is, he was great.

Goldstein · 10-12-2011 6:07pm

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

Myrddin · 10-12-2011 8:27pm

Goldstein wrote: »

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

I don't think it was two dimensional thinking really, it just looks better on screen if ships are oriented the same way as each other.

G-Money · 10-12-2011 10:01pm

The Ferengi really crack me up. Rom is very funny, as is Liquidator Brunt

Myrddin · 10-12-2011 10:16pm

G-Money wrote: »

The Ferengi really crack me up. Rom is very funny, as is Liquidator Brunt

The Magnificent Ferengi <think thats the name> is a cracker of an episode, Brunt, Rom, Cousin Gaila, Quark & Nog...class

nyarlothothep · 11-12-2011 1:52am

I always found those shots which lingered on crew members walking out of rooms before cutting to the next shot to be slightly awkward and amusing.

helimachoptor · 11-12-2011 12:25pm

Goldstein wrote: »

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

The one time they didnt do this was when the Klingons came to save the day in the battle to re-take DS9, they came in on the Z-axis and it really looked great.

I dont think theres a need to do it all the time and it worked very well for this.

downwithpeace · 11-12-2011 2:26pm

EnterNow wrote: »

The Magnificent Ferengi <think thats the name> is a cracker of an episode, Brunt, Rom, Cousin Gaila, Quark & Nog...class

That's an excellent episode, most episodes revolving around the Ferengi were good.

Myrddin · 11-12-2011 2:38pm

downwithpeace wrote: »

That's an excellent episode, most episodes revolving around the Ferengi were good.

Iggy Pop also made an excellent Vorta if memory serves!

downwithpeace · 11-12-2011 3:10pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Iggy Pop also made an excellent Vorta if memory serves!

That's right and the other Vorta reminded me of Elijah Wood, might just be me :rolleyes:

G-Money · 11-12-2011 9:42pm

I just finished watching The Visitor again. Words fail me. I don't think I've ever watched any TV show, film or anything else that affects me as much as that episode does. It's a beautifully crafted piece of work that choked me up and had tears rolling down my face several times. Simply stunning.

Bog Cotton · 12-12-2011 12:58am

Hi G-Money like yourself I have been rewatching DS9 everyday.
Yes, that is a great episode, very well written. Good acting as well.

Just watched this and I have to agree with Eddington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRxPjJ8VlyE

But Siskos response was very uncharacteristic. I would think Sisko would sympathise, but all he could say was
"I don't give a damn what you think about the federation, the Maquis or anything else. All I know is that you betrayed your oath, your duty, and me. And if it takes me the rest of my life, I will see you standing before a court martial that'll break you and send you to a penal colony, where you will spend the rest of your days growing old and wondering whether a ship full of replicators was really worth it."

It wasn't long ago that Sisko was getting a lecture from that Admiral Leyton on Earth (who was going to set up martial law) about duty and loyalty, and Sisko sided with doing the right thing, instead of following orders.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LEYTON: " Without the chain of command, Starfleet would cease to function and we wouldn't stand a chance against our enemies. I'm still your commanding officer, and now more than ever I need you to respect my authority. "
SISKO: " And I cannot do that! Not this time. "[/FONT]

GreenWolfe · 12-12-2011 2:19pm

Bog Cotton wrote: »

Hi G-Money like yourself I have been rewatching DS9 everyday.
Yes, that is a great episode, very well written. Good acting as well.

Just watched this and I have to agree with Eddington.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRxPjJ8VlyE

But Siskos response was very uncharacteristic. I would think Sisko would sympathise, but all he could say was
"I don't give a damn what you think about the federation, the Maquis or anything else. All I know is that you betrayed your oath, your duty, and me. And if it takes me the rest of my life, I will see you standing before a court martial that'll break you and send you to a penal colony, where you will spend the rest of your days growing old and wondering whether a ship full of replicators was really worth it."

It wasn't long ago that Sisko was getting a lecture from that Admiral Leyton on Earth (who was going to set up martial law) about duty and loyalty, and Sisko sided with doing the right thing, instead of following orders.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LEYTON: " Without the chain of command, Starfleet would cease to function and we wouldn't stand a chance against our enemies. I'm still your commanding officer, and now more than ever I need you to respect my authority. "
SISKO: " And I cannot do that! Not this time. "[/FONT]

I think in both cases Sisko believed that both of them betrayed the Federation and its ideals.

Eddington had served under Sisko for long enough and he didn't even catch a hint of dissatisfaction or betrayal from Eddington. I guess he was furious at being hoodwinked so completely while Eddington was supplying and covertly aiding the Maquis all along. Cal Hudson did the same and Sisko's reaction was similar.

With Leyton, as you said he tried to set up a military dictatorship. Sisko spent most of his life serving the Federation, his wife was killed during his service and he raised his son alone on some god-forsaken space station because he tried to keep the freedoms and values of the Federation alive through his duty to Starfleet(this is getting really cheesy!). So to see a superior tear apart all he had sacrificed for, into something that over time may have turned into a brutal and oppressive régime was more than he could bear imo.

Not of course that Sisko was a saint himself. Not by a long shot!

Bog Cotton · 12-12-2011 9:18pm

Yeah your right there EP.

GreenWolfe · 13-12-2011 6:23pm

G-Money wrote: »

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 now, I'm being reminded how funny Quark is, he was great.

I'm watching Rejoined. The bit where Jadzia and Bashir 'pull' latinum from Quark's ears ears....hilarious. I laughed when one of his Ferengi employees started sniffing around his ear for money!

Myrddin · 13-12-2011 6:24pm

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I'm watching Rejoined. The bit where Jadzia and Bashir 'pull' latinum from Quark's ears ears....hilarious. I laughed when one of his Ferengi employees started sniffing around his ear for money!

Is that the episode where Jadzia has the call on a new Trill initiate? God yer man is one for the cringe thread

GreenWolfe · 13-12-2011 6:36pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Is that the episode where Jadzia has the call on a new Trill initiate? God yer man is one for the cringe thread

I didn't think of him actually, he did make me shudder. Nah, it's the one where Jadzia meets up with her ex-wife...symbiont...thing.

Myrddin · 13-12-2011 6:38pm

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I didn't think of him actually, he did make me shudder. Nah, it's the one where Jadzia meets up with her ex-wife...symbiont...thing.

The lezzer episode?

downwithpeace · 13-12-2011 6:39pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Is that the episode where Jadzia has the call on a new Trill initiate? God yer man is one for the cringe thread

Playing God and your right he is.

GreenWolfe · 13-12-2011 8:24pm

EnterNow wrote: »

The lezzer episode?

I thought it was more of a married-couple-have-chance-to-be-together type of thing. One of their more tasteless attempts to get ratings from that angle imo. Well, that and the one where the DS9 crew go to Risa - that was awful!

Except for than TNG episode where Riker's with the androgynous alien Star Trek tends to tapdance around LGBT issues in general. Considering the taboos ST has tried to break in the past it's one of my biggest disappointments with the series in general.

Myrddin · 13-12-2011 8:30pm

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I thought it was more of a married-couple-have-chance-to-be-together type of thing

Well it was really, & another chance to look at reassociation of Trill society. Capped by Jadzia snogging another girl

Bog Cotton · 13-12-2011 10:47pm

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I thought it was more of a married-couple-have-chance-to-be-together type of thing. One of their more tasteless attempts to get ratings from that angle imo. Well, that and the one where the DS9 crew go to Risa - that was awful!

Except for than TNG episode where Riker's with the androgynous alien Star Trek tends to tapdance around LGBT issues in general. Considering the taboos ST has tried to break in the past it's one of my biggest disappointments with the series in general.

Totally agree there EP. That Risa episode was aweful. I thought Star Trek totally lost the plot. I personally hated all the love relationship crap that DS9 got into.

Bog Cotton · 14-12-2011 1:59am

"Come to Quark's!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg8o__6bEEY

De Bhál · 14-12-2011 6:15pm

this always makes me laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySZdvsFYt4

azezil · 16-12-2011 1:41pm

Goldstein wrote: »

One thing that always annoyed me was the ships always being oriented in the same plane as each other. Funny that both Star Trek and Star Wars both suffered from this 2 dimensional thinking regarding their ships & fleets. It was a bit late to realise ships can go any direction in space when Riker's future tri-nacelled Enterprise D finally engaged the Klingons in a different plane in All Good Things.

Eeeehhhh, Star Trek 2??

Goldstein · 16-12-2011 6:04pm

azezil wrote: »

Eeeehhhh, Star Trek 2??

lol, ok, everything except Star Trek 2 and All Good Things. There are a few others (Scorpion, Face of the Enemy, First Contact etc) but it's still a ratio of hundreds to one against. 99% of the time they thought in 2 dimensions and almost never brought the notion of pitch into things. Roll was used seldom enough as it was. And the reason is obvious if you consider that many of the vfx shots (especially in early episodes) were composed and shot using fairly large models which somewhat limited them. They also complemented vfx shots any way they could even hanging models from strings to make the shot work. Strings aren't mad about the whole 3-dimensional thing.

If you think back on how Firefly or Battlestar handled spacial awareness, they did demonstrate much more of an understanding that space is 3 dimensional in how they portrayed ship travel using all of the dynamic parameters inherent to space travel. Granted they had access to today's technology and I'm sure the next iteration of Star Trek will no doubt follow suit. When we're likely to see that is the real question. I'm still undecided whether Abrams' space action films will ultimately have a positive or negative effect on the future of a proper Trek tv show.

Making the science as realsistic as possible in Science Fiction benefits the genre, not hinders it. Especially with Star Trek - the harder the sci-fi the better.

nyarlothothep · 18-12-2011 4:13pm

There are few greater pleasures than watching Star Trek III whilst drinking wine beside a fire or alternatively eating breakfast whilst watching Star Trek.

norrie rugger · 19-12-2011 3:41am

azezil wrote: »

Eeeehhhh, Star Trek 2??

Where is this use of 3D tactics? In the nebula there is a tiny variation in the Y axis but there is no Z axis difference. The attitude of the ships remains the same.

I might be forgetting something though

Kirby · 19-12-2011 3:52am

norrie rugger wrote: »

Where is this use of 3D tactics? In the nebula there is a tiny variation in the Y axis but there is no Z axis difference. The attitude of the ships remains the same.

I might be forgetting something though

In an episode of Voyager, Commander Chuckles does an honest to god loop-de-loop in a shuttle dog fight........and it works. He destroys the other shuttle because it just had to keep going in a straight line.

Take that two dimensions!

GreenWolfe · 19-12-2011 6:13am

Myrddin · 19-12-2011 10:35am

norrie rugger wrote: »

Where is this use of 3D tactics? In the nebula there is a tiny variation in the Y axis but there is no Z axis difference. The attitude of the ships remains the same.

I might be forgetting something though

I'm almost certain there's a scene when the two ships are looking for each other, there's a clip that shows the Enterprise cross far over the top of the Reliant.

The Khitomer battle is riddled in such examples also, remember a photon torpedo blasting straight through the Enterprise saucer section from directly underneath?

The Valiant & Dominion battleship had a reference also, the Captain actually mentioned the z-axis.

General Star Trek thread

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