Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

_blank_ · 18-11-2011 10:10AM

amiable wrote: »

Would that not make them racist towards white kids coming through?

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy/player/michael-ngoo

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy/player/emmanuel-mendy

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy/player/david-moli

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy/player/stephen-sama

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy/player/henoc-john-mukendi

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/first-team/player/raheem-sterling

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/first-team/player/andre-wisdom

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/first-team/player/david-amoo

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/first-team/player/39-nathan-eccleston

Just a selection of the players Liverpool have coming through.

I don't think Kenny and Comolli give a rats arse what colour players are coming through as long as they are good enough

Why are you even reacting to that shíte?

amiable · 18-11-2011 10:13AM

Des wrote: »

Why are you even reacting to that shíte?

I suppose

SlickRic · 18-11-2011 10:24AM

flahavaj wrote: »

they have attacked Evra publically for no good reason, in the full knowledge that the attack was completely unjustified.

there was no attack.

there was a denial, and an insistence that if Evra is lying, they'd expect action.

big, big difference.

you've made decent enough points ad nauseum without having to resort to hyperbole.

the bottom line of this whole thing, i suspect, is, and i've thought so now for a while, is that it was a ridiculous misunderstanding. Suarez was being a patronising so-and-so, using the word negrito, meaning "mate" (which given how widely reported it is, i'm going to assume, for now, he used). Evra got offended, and rightly so, if he truly believed that he either heard "negro", or he heard "negrito", and, having not heard the word before, assumed it had a racist connotation. i'm presuming here that when Suarez claimed Evra's teammates call him it, he means the English/French variation.

this could all have been calmed down by either;

1) Suarez clarifying himself early; or
2) Evra and Suarez, in an adult manner, clarifying with each other before the media was brought into it.

also, the FA are jumping on this, i'm going to guess (perhaps biasedly), to make out they're taking a firm stance on racism. but i doubt Suarez is going to face sanctions, as unless there's awesome proof, it'll just be too messy.

bruschi · 18-11-2011 10:29AM

flahavaj wrote: »

The Kick it Out campaign make a point in paragraph 1 that I have been repetedly making for weeks. This could all have been sorted out so easily with a simple explanation and apology.

It is also gratifying to see it said that Evra "had no choice" but to complain. I presume those who called him a liar now admit they were wrong (if indeed he was referred to as "negrito", as seems to be commonly accapted by many reliable spources)?

I presume no one could in any way question his right to be angered about what was said to him?

And I presume that even if Suarez isn't punished nobody will be retarded enough to take the stance that Suarez not being found guolty means Evra must have been lying ( as was said over and over here with monotonous regularity)?

but if Suraez didnt see anything wrong with what he said, and if Evra didnt say it to the ref, and the ref didnt warn/get onto Suarez about it, how was he to know he should go to Evra and apologise? It seems Evra went straight to the ref after the game, and then onto TV to make a statement.

Was Suarez aware of Evra being pissed off over a racial slur? If he was, and if Daglish was too, then obviously they should have sought him out and apologised. But Evra going to TV over it would have made it hard to do, because he took it a step ahead and there was no going back on it then, and it would have to go through due process.

but, it certainly does seem, that an apology over a miscommunication would have stopped a whole racial outcry. Personally, (if we are going on what has been reported) I think it wa a mis understanding and that there was no racial slur intended. Evra got rightly upset, but instead of going to TV, should have said it to the ref at the time and for the ref to report it, and ask Suarez and discuss it with him and Daglish after. It would be then, that Suarez would have an oppertunity to apologise for any confusion over it, and then for Evra to see if he would bring it further or not.

However, if Suarez used worse words, and in a contrived racial way, then no apology would sort it and he should be punished. Again, not all the facts are out on this case, and nearly everything is still speculation at this point.

monkey9 · 18-11-2011 10:54AM

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Dipping in and out of this thread the past week and have to say some of the people on here have to be trolling. Idiotic and moronic. Such as monkey9 above

Good stuff!!

monkey9 · 18-11-2011 10:56AM

DB10 wrote: »

Go where? A friend asked earlier when this whole Suarez thing came up and I couldnt think off one off hand that has played regularly.

I'm not a Liverpool fan though so I wouldnt know, thats why I want their comment!?

Obviously they have had lots of black players, but he said the academy and couldnt think of any.

So what you're getting at is that Liverpool FC is a racist club?? Wow!!

Will I Amnt · 18-11-2011 11:02AM

monkey9 wrote: »

So what you're getting at is that Liverpool FC is a racist club?? Wow!!

Didn't they get rid of Babel????
Must be true,I'd be very worried now if I was Glen Johnson

DDC1990 · 18-11-2011 11:35AM

Would I be right in saying, that if Suarez calls Rooney "negrito", none of this is an issue.

Negrito is a term of endearment to Suarez, reguardless of Race, Coulour etc., even when used sarcasticly as it may have been in this case.

It just happened that it was a black player he was having an argument with.

Suarez has been in the league long enough, and has had enough arguments with players in his time in england.

If so, he may well have used the word "negrito" before, to a white player.

All purely hypothetical of course, but it would go a long way to clearing things up, if there was another player out there with experience of being called "negrito" in a non-racial context.

However, if this is the first time Suarez has used the word in the league. And it happens to have been on Evra a black player, then, even as a Liverpool fan, i'd find that suspicious. I know myself, when arguing on the field there is only so many sarcastic comments i'd make:

"Yeah, good man yourself"
"Take it easy mate"
etc.

To pull the one that you know translates badly as "little black", whatever the intention, on a black player is reckless at best.

super_furry · 18-11-2011 12:03PM

Some very interesting and telling stuff from Gus Poyet. Poyet - 'I'll prove Suarez is not a racist'

"I know Luis very well and I will go to court if someone wants to prove he's not racist,"

"I can assure you and everyone Luis is not a racist. We use different words and it is a different kind of situation.

"We live in Uruguay with plenty of people who have different colour skin. We all live together and play football together.

"What hurts me the most is that you accuse someone. Luis Suarez has been accused of being a racist."

18-11-2011 12:04PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Didn't they get rid of Babel????
Must be true,I'd be very worried now if I was Glen Johnson

I thought posts couldn't get any worse.

We are now in the conspiracy theory level.

LFC organised Martin Luther King's shooting btw and I believe Ian Rush was the man behind the LA riots in '92.

Will I Amnt · 18-11-2011 12:07PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

Didn't they get rid of Babel????
Must be true,I'd be very worried now if I was Glen Johnson

I thought posts couldn't get any worse.

We are now in the conspiracy theory level.

LFC organised Martin Luther King's shooting btw and I believe Ian Rush was the man behind the LA riots in '92.

I hope you're referring to the other post I was making fun of.

18-11-2011 12:16PM

Fair play to Poyet " I never went out crying like a baby, like Patrice Evra, saying that someone said something to me."

Never a truer word was spoken, Evra is nothing but a trouble maker and a little cry baby. Teacher teacher Suarez called me names. Boo f*cking hoo!

Kess73 · 18-11-2011 12:18PM

Des wrote: »

That's fine and perfectly acceptable, and fair play to you for posting.

But, out of context, and with a direct translation, that is

"Hi black, is the dinner ready", which to me, translated directly, makes me go a bit :eek:

So, if someone from South America rocks up in England, and during an argument with a black person who speaks some spanish starts calling them "Negrito", you can understand why that black person would be upset. You yourself said you expressed "surprise", I can't really imagine what a black person, who probably isn't aware of the subleties of South American Spanish, would think to being called a name, based on race (which it most certainly is) during an argument.

Actually you make a good point there. The spanish meaning of many words are very different to what the same word means to a person for whom English is their first language.

I tried to crack a little joke about it yesterday by using the word Gringo.

Now gringo to a person for whom spanish is their first language is a friendly term, to describe a foreigner and have no negative meaning. But to a person that has english as a first language it is often taken as a slur.

Negrito is a similar word in that to a person who has Spanish, or a varient of it, as a first language it is a friendly term or a term used for a mild wind up. It is pretty much a colour blind word between spanish speakers. But the english translation means little black person.

So saying that word to a person for whom English is their first langauge or to a person who has no understanding at all of Spanish could be seen as insulting, but saying it to someone who speaks fluent spanish should see you in a position where both understand the subtleties of the language.

_blank_ · 18-11-2011 12:21PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

Fair play to Poyet " I never went out crying like a baby, like Patrice Evra, saying that someone said something to me."

Never a truer word was spoken, Evra is nothing but a trouble maker and a little cry baby. Teacher teacher Suarez called me names. Boo f*cking hoo!

Wow.

Wow.

This is unbelievable.

Kess73 wrote: »

Actually you make a good point there. .

I often do.

Kess73 · 18-11-2011 12:26PM

Des wrote: »

I often do.

Yes, yes you do, gringo. :pac:

Kylo Ren · 18-11-2011 12:27PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

Fair play to Poyet " I never went out crying like a baby, like Patrice Evra, saying that someone said something to me."

Never a truer word was spoken, Evra is nothing but a trouble maker and a little cry baby. Teacher teacher Suarez called me names. Boo f*cking hoo!

What are you talking about? If I was in work and I was black and someone came up to me and called me a n*****, I'm just supposed to go about my day like nothing happened?

Piss off.

18-11-2011 12:30PM

Keno 92 wrote: »

What are you talking about? If I was in work and I was black and someone came up to me and called me a n*****, I'm just supposed to go about my day like nothing happened?

Piss off.

For a start, if anything was said, it wasn't that word and secondly No, I wouldnt go running around reporting it I'd deal with it myself.

Where people running to the teacher every time they got called a name once they got past the age of 13? I certainly wasn't.

I'm not in anyway defending racism, but at the same time I think once people get last national school the whole running around telling tales over getting called a name should be a thing of the past. If it was a sustained racist attack on a person who feels intimidated over time day in day out, obviously this would also be different also.

Kess73 · 18-11-2011 12:31PM

Keno 92 wrote: »

What are you talking about? If I was in work and I was black and someone came up to me and called me a n*****, I'm just supposed to go about my day like nothing happened?

If you were black and spanish or a spanish speaker and someone came up and said nergrito to you, then it would most likely mean far less than how it would sound to you if you were black and an English speaker.

By the way negrito does not have the same meaning in Spanish or English as the seven letter word starting with N that you seem to have suggested in your post.

Giggsy11 · 18-11-2011 12:31PM

Keno 92 wrote: »

What are you talking about? If I was in work and I was black and someone came up to me and called me a n*****, I'm just supposed to go about my day like nothing happened?

Piss off.

Man up. If you are black then calling you black is not an offense. Just get on with it. :pac:

Some posts in this thread are mind boggling.

Kess73 · 18-11-2011 12:33PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

For a start, if anything was said, it wasn't that word and secondly No, I wouldnt go running around reporting it I'd deal with it myself.

Where people running to the teacher every time they got called a name once they got past the age of 13? I certainly wasn't.

In fairness there is a big difference between someone being insulted by more conventional slang and someone being on the receiving end of racist abuse. Genuine cases of the latter should never have to go unnoticed.

SantryRed · 18-11-2011 12:33PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

For a start, if anything was said, it wasn't that word and secondly No, I wouldnt go running around reporting it I'd deal with it myself.

Where people running to the teacher every time they got called a name once they got past the age of 13? I certainly wasn't.

Jesus.

Iang87 · 18-11-2011 12:41PM

Well all this racism chat flying around I'm glad i sat back from it until fifa firmly stuck their foot in there black/yellow/pink/white mouth. Covering my tracks.

Firstly Blatter, to an extent I could see what he was saying. I dont think there is a massive racism issue in football, I could be blinded cos I watch a lot of EPLbut I dont think there is. My reasoning is that theres been a handful of accusations/charges made in the last couple of years so unfortuantely I do kind of agree with Blatter there. However I do feel the same man is a homophobic sexist ape who if he was head of a regular company would be gone. The reason fifa wont be rid of him is because Football will always be popular regardless of the clown they have at the head of it.

Secondly suarez, I suppose this is me defending them. In the heat of the moment you can briefly forget yourself. Ancelotti couldn't even speak english when he was unhappy for gods sake. The entire language he couldn't get out. Why i'm applying this to suarez is if he called evra negrito or whatever then it needs to be noted the sitaution he was in. He didnt go out with the intention to racially abuse him and lets just say evra kicked him 3 or 4 times during the game and suarez still got the ball away and he turned around and said calm down negrito. I dont know if that was the case but in my opinion thats not racist, especially given the word has a completely opposite meaning in the country where he spent nearly all his life.

As for terry supposedly he called ferdinand a black **** in retaliation to ferdinand calling him a **** and making reference to terry sleeping with bridges wife. I genuinely dont think that makes terry a racist given the situation if that was the situation. I'd challenge anyone to step into a situation where there are 20,000 people calling you a cúnt and have a heated argument with one of there players. Your blood will boil quickly and something can be said in the moment.

I should also point out that racism in my opinion is limited to callin someone a n*****. I say that cos there's so many things that can go one way but not the other,minor example being Black entertainment TV, MOBO awards.Those things in my opinion are racist also but it wont be said.

Oh and finally should also point out innocent until proven guilty however cos of the way this has been handled suarez and terry will always be known as racists now whereas ferdinand and evra will be remembered as the other guys involved regardless if they are found innocent or guilty. Is that fair too? or is it just a minor price to pay to bring this to the publics attention

18-11-2011 12:45PM

Kess73 wrote: »

In fairness there is a big difference between someone being insulted by more conventional slang and someone being on the receiving end of racist abuse. Genuine cases of the latter should never have to go unnoticed.

But does calling a black person a racist name, who has grown up in a comfortable middle class family and has never experienced any of the things which happened in the past that make the racist name unacceptable, really feel anymore hurt than a person getting singled out because they are fat, or because they have some unusual feature etc.

Kess73 · 18-11-2011 12:46PM

Iang87 wrote: »

Well all this racism chat flying around I'm glad i sat back from it until fifa firmly stuck their foot in there black/yellow/pink/white mouth. Covering my tracks.

Firstly Blatter, to an extent I could see what he was saying. I dont think there is a massive racism issue in football, I could be blinded cos I watch a lot of EPLbut I dont think there is. My reasoning is that theres been a handful of accusations/charges made in the last couple of years so unfortuantely I do kind of agree with Blatter there. However I do feel the same man is a homophobic sexist ape who if he was head of a regular company would be gone. The reason fifa wont be rid of him is because Football will always be popular regardless of the clown they have at the head of it.

Secondly suarez, I suppose this is me defending them. In the heat of the moment you can briefly forget yourself. Ancelotti couldn't even speak english when he was unhappy for gods sake. The entire language he couldn't get out. Why i'm applying this to suarez is if he called evra negrito or whatever then it needs to be noted the sitaution he was in. He didnt go out with the intention to racially abuse him and lets just say evra kicked him 3 or 4 times during the game and suarez still got the ball away and he turned around and said calm down negrito. I dont know if that was the case but in my opinion thats not racist, especially given the word has a completely opposite meaning in the country where he spent nearly all his life.

As for terry supposedly he called ferdinand a black **** in retaliation to ferdinand calling him a **** and making reference to terry sleeping with bridges wife. I genuinely dont think that makes terry a racist given the situation if that was the situation. I'd challenge anyone to step into a situation where there are 20,000 people calling you a cúnt and have a heated argument with one of there players. Your blood will boil quickly and something can be said in the moment.

I should also point out that racism in my opinion is limited to callin someone a n*****. I say that cos there's so many things that can go one way but not the other,minor example being Black entertainment TV, MOBO awards.Those things in my opinion are racist also but it wont be said.

Oh and finally should also point out innocent until proven guilty however cos of the way this has been handled suarez and terry will always be known as racists now whereas ferdinand and evra will be remembered as the other guys involved regardless if they are found innocent or guilty. Is that fair too? or is it just a minor price to pay to bring this to the publics attention

Racism is not tied down to being one word of abuse or just being towards people of one particular colour or race.

Kess73 · 18-11-2011 12:50PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

But does calling a black person a racist name, who has grown up in a comfortable middle class family and has never experienced any of the things which happened in the past that make the racist name unacceptable, really feel anymore hurt than a person getting singled out because they are fat, or because they have some unusual feature etc.

Which is why I said more conventional slang in the post you quoted. There is a big difference in calling someone a *****r over and over to wind them up than going straight for a racist comment or something specific to that person like the examples you just gave.

Iang87 · 18-11-2011 12:50PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Racism is not tied down to being one word of abuse or just being towards people of one particular colour or race.

I know its not but for some reason I struggle to call something racist without that word being used. I know what racism is I dunno why I think like that

Kylo Ren · 18-11-2011 12:52PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Man up. If you are black then calling you black is not an offense. Just get on with it. :pac:

Some posts in this thread are mind boggling.

I didn't say black.

18-11-2011 12:58PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Which is why I said more conventional slang in the post you quoted. There is a big difference in calling someone a *****r over and over to wind them up than going straight for a racist comment or something specific to that person like the examples you just gave.

I understand, but using something specific to wind someone up wont get you in trouble unless in can be called racist.

For instance if a player said to another player "You dirty big eared brain dead wan*er" there wouldnt be a word about it but if they said "you black wan*ker" its a whole different ball game, however what if a black person called another player "you white wan*er" there also wouldnt be a word about it. I just think the whole thing is gone out of hand.

Giggsy11 · 18-11-2011 01:01PM

Keno 92 wrote: »

I didn't say black.

Yeah Ni***r. Thats what I meant

Crazy Horse 6 · 18-11-2011 01:09PM

Lol at the English media getting their knickers in a twist over Blatter. Such bad losers.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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