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The Hazards of Belief

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    #1262
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    robindch wrote: »
    I'd have thought so, but apparently not.

    There was a case in Donegal a few years back where some local homeopath told a (German?) women to stop taking her meds, so the latter's tumor grew and eventually killed her.

    At the subsequent inquest, the county coroner rued that all he could do was issue the homeopath with a fifteen euro fine for failing to show up. It was the second time the homeopath had received such a fine...

    I despise homeopaths :mad:


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    #1263
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I despise homeopaths :mad:
    Homeophobe! :pac:


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    #1264
    dmw07
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭dmw07


    seamus wrote: »
    I guess the defence is that it was up to the deceased as to whether they should heed the advice given by the pastor.

    In america people have won absolutely crazy cases were the injured party was responsible for the outcome, yet the provider of a service was at fault. McDonalds were sued for a coffee being hot and not having a huge sign on the coffee saying so, Manhatten were sued for a packet of nuts, containing nuts without actually warning the customer.

    I'm sure you can fight some sort of legal angle to put the blame on the person/party offering a service or product (In this case the homeopath). Unless they walked around with a sign on their neck, or got the "patient" to sign a waver, i'd take them to court.


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    #1265
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dmw07 wrote: »
    In america people have won absolutely crazy cases were the injured party was responsible for the outcome, yet the provider of a service was at fault. McDonalds were sued for a coffee being hot and not having a huge sign on the coffee saying so, Manhatten were sued for a packet of nuts, containing nuts without actually warning the customer.
    To be fair, the MacDonald's one is oft-quoted as being a woman driving with coffee between her legs and burning herself, but that's not actually true.
    The result of the case was that they found MacDonalds were serving coffee at an unnecessarily dangerous temperature (85C). MacDonalds admitted to doing this as a matter of course with drive-thru stuff so it would remain hot. The woman's contention wasn't that it wasn't her fault for spilling the coffee, but that if MacDonalds had served the coffee at a normal temperature (60C), she wouldn't have suffered serious burns to her legs, requiring medical attention. She also wasn't driving at the time, though she was holding the cup between her legs while the car was stationery.

    Don't know about the peanuts one, can't find any info.

    Point being that these cases generally require someone to have failed in a duty of care somewhere along the line. So it would need to be shown that the pastor has some duty of care towards the deceased. And unless they have actually taken on the role of a carer, then that's hard to prove.


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    #1266
    dmw07
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭dmw07


    I can't find any links at hand for the peanut story, it's about 4-5 years ago. I might look again later if i get a chance.

    "failed in a duty of care". That was the point i am alluding to though. Did the homeopath make it crystal clear to the person that they were not a medical doctor and that there was no/little evidence of this treatment working, or is there a case that could be tried under failed to notify/inform the customer fully.

    There could be an angle of misleading/false information, deception, false pretences. I don't know, there has to be something! :confused:

    Legal minds needed, anyone?


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    #1267
    Doc Farrell
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭Doc Farrell


    What a charming story with a delightful fairy tale ending in Iraq.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056440453

    Perhaps you shouldn't read it on an empty stomach. Or a full one either. I feel incredibly proud to be a human in this moment.


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    #1268
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    ^^ And that's why I'm not a Humanist.


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    #1269
    Liamario
    Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    Dades wrote: »
    ^^ And that's why I'm not a Humanist.
    He has been corrupted by religion. He must have live a very closed life, compounded by the religious zealots that surround him.
    I'm not trying to excuse him, far from it. But there is always a reason for everything; in this case, ignorance.


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    #1270
    sephir0th
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    Evangelical indoctrination is given an unflinching, even-handed look in this utterly worthwhile documentary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kROfJ1bmbB8


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    #1271
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Doc Farrell wrote: »
    What a charming story with a delightful fairy tale ending in Iraq.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056440453

    Perhaps you shouldn't read it on an empty stomach. Or a full one either. I feel incredibly proud to be a human in this moment.

    Another concerning aspect of that thread is the amount of people unwilling to even attempt to read the article, but would rather sit there and demand a very short summary.


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    #1272
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Another concerning aspect of that thread is the amount of people unwilling to even attempt to read the article, but would rather sit there and demand a very short summary.

    Made all the worse when you see that the first short paragraph of the article is a summary of the whole incident anyway.


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    #1273
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    This is purely a personal example. The internet always conveyed Chuck Norris as this really awesomely cool guy. Seriously, after actually bothering to look into this guy, he's a pure nutter. Creationist, Anti-vaxxer you name it and you can probably assign it to chuck norris. Me thinks his internet status as the "cool guy" needs to be removed fast! :(


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    #1274
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Malty_T wrote: »
    This is purely a personal example. The internet always conveyed Chuck Norris as this really awesomely cool guy. Seriously, after actually bothering to look into this guy, he's a pure nutter. Creationist, Anti-vaxxer you name it and you can probably assign it to chuck norris. Me thinks his internet status as the "cool guy" needs to be removed fast! :(

    On it:

    peter-cushing.jpg


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    #1275
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Gays created by the Devil says US Catholic Church Policy Advisor.
    This week The Boston Pilot, the nations oldest Catholic newspaper, published a column by a senior official suggesting the devil probably makes people gay.

    In the column Daniel Avila, who is a Massachussetts attorney and (take a breath here) Policy Advisor for Marriage and Family of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage, bluntly says that 'the scientific evidence of how same-sex attraction most likely may be created provides a credible basis for a spiritual explanation that indicts the devil.'

    So if you're gay the phrase the devil made you do it has a whole new meaning this week. We are all made in God's image (except for the gays, obviously).

    Elucidating, Avila described homosexuality as a 'natural disaster' caused by Satan invading the wombs of mothers of LGBT children.

    It happens all the time apparently.

    In case you missed his point, or the implications, Avila spells it out for you: '…whenever natural causes disturb otherwise typical biological development, leading to the personally unchosen beginnings of same-sex attraction, the ultimate responsibility, on a theological level, is and should be imputed to the evil one, not God.'

    God would never make anyone gay because if He did then the persecution of gay people (whom God created gay, after all) would be a sin. We simply can't have that. So gay people are the devil's work and you are free to oppress them in any and every way you can.

    But telling a mother that the Devil entered her womb and made her child gay is new, even by Catholic standards. Until now we've just had to endure the idiotic sophistry that asked us to love the sinner but hate the sin (that pretzel theology that seeks to oppress whilst appearing compassionate).

    But this week Avila, who calls himself 'the bishops' marriage guy,' has shown us the true face of the USCCB, who have refused to condemn his words. This is the man Americas Catholic bishops look to for advice about the LGBT community. He sounds deranged.

    Avila's article caused a firestorm and it was eventually pulled with an apology from its publisher, The Boston Pilot. But you have to acknowledge that same source published it without objection in the first place.

    Sometimes the mask slips and you get to see what those in positions of real authority actually think about gay people. This week that happened and the silence is deafening.

    Source

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1276
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    koth wrote: »
    Gays created by the Devil says US Catholic Church Policy Advisor.
    That makes no sense. If this God person is omnipotent and omnicognicent why would he let Lucifer do something that would lead to some of His beloved creations being reviled and tortured? And if Lucifer somehow did manage to sneak gayness into babies doesn't that mean that they're entitled to the kindness and understanding that is deserved by all people so afflicted by The Evil One, and we should be extra understanding and nice to them because the poor dears can't help it?


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    #1277
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    koth wrote: »
    Gays created by the Devil says US Catholic Church Policy Advisor.

    What's the name of that site which documents these kind of people who eventually turn out to be gay themselves?


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    #1278
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,408 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Cahir O'Doherty wrote:
    Sometimes the mask slips and you get to see what those in positions of real authority actually think about gay people. This week that happened and the silence is deafening.
    Not quite so deafening. Turns out that Mr Avila was in a state of theological error and has been forced into issuing the following unpology:

    http://www.pilotcatholicnews.com/article.asp?ID=13929
    Mr Avila wrote:
    Statements made in my column, 'Some fundamental questions on same-sex attraction' of October 28, do not represent the position of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the column was not authorized for publication as is required policy for staff of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. The teaching of Sacred Scripture and of the Catechism of the Catholic Church make it clear that all persons are created in the image and likeness of God and have inviolable dignity. Likewise, the Church proclaims the sanctity of marriage as the permanent, faithful, fruitful union of one man and one woman. The Church opposes, as I do too, all unjust discrimination and the violence against persons that unjust discrimination inspires. I deeply apologize for the hurt and confusion that this column has caused."
    Note how he doesn't apologize for writing the article?


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    #1279
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,408 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    An Iranian soccer player more physical with a teammate than the religious police liked, so the two of them were suspended indefinitely from the game and may face a lashing and/or imprisonment:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/11/100-lashes-for-buttock-squeeze-or-or-for-dying-laughing/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPeCpq8VkLo


    Now, go wash your eyes out with holy water!


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    #1280
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,455 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    robindch wrote: »
    An Iranian soccer player more physical with a teammate than the religious police liked, so the two of them were suspended indefinitely from the game and may face a lashing and/or imprisonment:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/11/100-lashes-for-buttock-squeeze-or-or-for-dying-laughing/
    Now, go wash your eyes out with holy water!

    Let's hope they don't find out about how he returned the favour in the showers afterwards


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    #1281
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    American Bishop above:
    The Church opposes, as I do too, all unjust discrimination

    Nice qualifier. Now to assign my bigotry to a higher power and then have him impose said bigotry on me so that it may be just.


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    #1282
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    robindch wrote: »
    An Iranian soccer player more physical with a teammate than the religious police liked, so the two of them were suspended indefinitely from the game and may face a lashing and/or imprisonment:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/11/100-lashes-for-buttock-squeeze-or-or-for-dying-laughing/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPeCpq8VkLo


    Now, go wash your eyes out with holy water!

    Wow, number 13 was not getting into the spirit of things at all was he?

    In England they give you a yellow card for 'inappropriate' celebrations. This includes (but is not limited to) the removal of the shirt, interfering with the corner flag and jumping into the crowd.
    In Iran they physically beat you? What does FIFA have to say about this?


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    #1283
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Did anyone else watch the Intelligence2 tribute to Hitchens the other day? To paraphrase Stephen Fry:
    "There have been some 426 species of animal where homosexuality has been noted, but only one that displays homophobia."

    Interesting in context of where this thread currently is.


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    #1284
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Not sure where to post this.

    Saint Padre Pio's stigmata 'exposed' by new book
    Pio, a former monk who died in 1981 aged 81, wore gloves because his hands bled constantly for 50 years in what were revered as stigmata wounds.

    He became Italy's most loved saint after he was canonised by Pope John Paul II in 2002.

    But a new book has heaped more scorn on the claims that his wounds were duplicates of those suffered by Jesus during the crucifixion.

    Italian historian Professor Sergio Luzzatto has discovered documents including a letter from a pharmacist who arranged carbolic acid for Pio.

    Professor Luzzatto suggests in Padre Pio: Miracle and Politics in a Secular Age that it was the corrosive acid that caused the bleeding on the saint's hands.

    He also said many Popes had expressed doubts and suggested the Vatican only canonised Pio – real name Francesco Forgione – because of public pressure.

    "Human beings – and particularly the most fragile among them – will still need to look at figures such as Padre Pio to get, if not miracles, then at least consolation and hope," Professor Luzzatto said, according the the Sun.

    Professor Luzzatto previously referred to the documents, found in the Vatican's archive, in The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy.

    His claims were dismissed by the Catholic Anti-Defamation League in 2007.

    Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said at the time: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.

    "We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."

    Source

    Currently listening to a woman on 2FM giving out about science providing evidence that makes it difficult for people to continue believing what they do.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1285
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    koth wrote: »
    Not sure where to post this.

    Saint Padre Pio's stigmata 'exposed' by new book



    Currently listening to a woman on 2FM giving out about science providing evidence that makes it difficult for people to continue believing what they do.


    pfft. you can use "evidence" to prove anything :rolleyes:


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    #1286
    dmw07
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭dmw07


    koth wrote: »
    Saint Padre Pio's stigmata 'exposed' by new book

    Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said at the time: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
    "We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."


    The old, it's true because we said it's true act, a la the bible. It's amazing that this trick worked for so many years, and still does.


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    #1287
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    dmw07 wrote: »
    Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said at the time: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
    "We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."


    The old, it's true because we said it's true act, a la the bible. It's amazing that this trick worked for so many years, and still does.


    The bolded bit is literally the dumbest thing i have ever read in my entire life.


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    #1288
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    sensibleken wrote: »
    pfft. you can use "evidence" to prove anything :rolleyes:

    but the weird part was she wasn't disputing the evidence, she was annoyed she was made aware of it.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1289
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Some folk would rather continue with the lie. It's all some of them have ever done, why stop now when it turns out to be rubbish?


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    #1290
    rossc007
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭rossc007


    You would have to wonder if the Vatican actually believe what they spout or if they are more interested in control of the flock. To me the look as corrupt as any other government, but more arrogant than most.


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    #1291
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    rossc007 wrote: »
    You would have to wonder if the Vatican actually believe what they spout or if they are more interested in control of the flock. To me the look as corrupt as any other government, but more arrogant than most.

    The Vatican: Trolling humanity since 325 AD


This discussion has been closed.
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