Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

SlickRic · 14-11-2011 03:01PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

That's where witnesses & evidence would come in.

i have to say, this is another thing.

how there weren't any witnesses to this on the pitch is mind-boggling to me.

and before people say that the "10 times" thing is irrelevant. it's not. surely if it happened so often, the FA would have to take into account that a witness OR a camera would have caught wind of it.

in all seriousness though, this should all pan out to be a big misunderstanding between the two of them, flamed up because it was a big game, emotions were high, and Evra, in particular, was in fairly wound up form all game.

i can't wait for this whole thing to be moved on from.

Mr Alan · 14-11-2011 03:04PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Not inventing anything, Suarez said there was a bilingual conversation. I was just putting your scenario in a binlugual way.

Ok, then in answer to your question, if Suarez said "get out of my face pal", part in English & part in his own dialect, yes, it's entirely acceptable.

JimsAlterEgo · 14-11-2011 03:04PM

SlickRic wrote: »

i have to say, this is another thing.

how there weren't any witnesses to this on the pitch is mind-boggling to me.

and before people say that the "10 times" thing is irrelevant. it's not. surely if it happened so often, the FA would have to take into account that a witness OR a camera would have caught wind of it.

in all seriousness though, this should all pan out to be a big misunderstanding between the two of them, flamed up because it was a big game, emotions were high, and Evra, in particular, was in fairly wound up form all game.

i can't wait for this whole thing to be moved on from.

The Mail (I know not the most reliable) say the FA spoke to witnesses.

Kess73 · 14-11-2011 03:05PM

SlickRic wrote: »

i have to say, this is another thing.

how there weren't any witnesses to this on the pitch is mind-boggling to me.

and before people say that the "10 times" thing is irrelevant. it's not. surely if it happened so often, the FA would have to take into account that a witness OR a camera would have caught wind of it.

in all seriousness though, this should all pan out to be a big misunderstanding between the two of them, flamed up because it was a big game, emotions were high, and Evra, in particular, was in fairly wound up form all game.

i can't wait for this whole thing to be moved on from.

Yeah it has become pretty much a circle jerk on here. As you said, the sooner it gets moved on from the better, Negrito.:)

14-11-2011 03:06PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Not inventing anything, Suarez said there was a bilingual conversation. I was just putting your scenario in a binlugual way.

Suarez's first language is Spanish.

He still does interviews etc in Spanish afaik. I'll stand corrected on this.

So naturally, he'll use Spanish words on the football pitch.

JimsAlterEgo · 14-11-2011 03:12PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Suarez's first language is Spanish.

He still does interviews etc in Spanish afaik. I'll stand corrected on this.

So naturally, he'll use Spanish words on the football pitch.

then fine if its all in Spanish but say the only word in Spanish is the one reported, is that ok?

parker kent · 14-11-2011 03:16PM

SlickRic wrote: »

how there weren't any witnesses to this on the pitch is mind-boggling to me.

In fairness, we don't actually know this yet.

Mr Alan · 14-11-2011 03:18PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

then fine if its all in Spanish but say the only word in Spanish is the one reported, is that ok?

It should be the exact same thing. Should it not?

If he said get out of my face pal, but said the word face in Spanish, would you find that unacceptable?

It seems to me what you're basically asking is, "saying the word pal/buddy, (ie. something more casual than friend), in Spanish, in the middle of a multi lingual conversation is unacceptable because it sounds a little like nigger".

Right?

JimsAlterEgo · 14-11-2011 03:23PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

It should be the exact same thing. Should it not?

If he said get out of my face pal, but said the word face in Spanish, would you find that unacceptable?

It seems to me what you're basically asking is, "saying the word pal/buddy, (ie. something more casual than friend), in Spanish, in the middle of a multi lingual conversation is unacceptable because it sounds like a little like nigger".

Right?

exactly its not acceptable

Mr Alan · 14-11-2011 03:26PM

Are you joking?

Kess73 · 14-11-2011 03:27PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

It should be the exact same thing. Should it not?

If he said get out of my face pal, but said the word face in Spanish, would you find that unacceptable?

It seems to me what you're basically asking is, "saying the word pal/buddy, (ie. something more casual than friend), in Spanish, in the middle of a multi lingual conversation is unacceptable because it sounds like a little like nigger".

Right?

Funnily enough I had someone accuse me of making a racist comment in the nature forum a year or two ago.

The conversation was about different types of bird seed and I mentioned Niger/Nyger seed for redpoll and goldfinch, and one individual got very bad over it, even to the point of sending abusive PMs.He simply refused to believe there was a seed with that name despite me putting up a picture of the seed packet for him.

Was just glad that I had not mentioned blackbirds or blackcaps.:D

SlickRic · 14-11-2011 03:28PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

exactly its not acceptable

i'd love to see this whole thing if it was the other way round.

i'd bet my house you'd be calling it a misunderstanding if de Gea called Glen Johnson "Negrito" right after a hefty challenge in the box or something.

JimsAlterEgo · 14-11-2011 03:31PM

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd love to see this whole thing if it was the other way round.

i'd bet my house you'd be calling it a misunderstanding if de Gea called Glen Johnson "Negrito" right after a hefty challenge in the box or something.

not if he said go fVck off Negrito

SlickRic · 14-11-2011 03:33PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

not if he said go fVck off Negrito

is this what Suarez said?

SlickRic · 14-11-2011 03:34PM

even so, that's translated as "fúck off pal".

patronising, yes.

racist...um, no.

Mr Alan · 14-11-2011 03:35PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

not if he said go fVck off Negrito

Are you not grasping this?

Negrito. means. pal.

JimsAlterEgo · 14-11-2011 03:39PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are you not grasping this?

Negrito. means. pal.

wrong, it can mean pal to friends which they are not. There are other meanings.

"Negrito", for example, could have shocking connotations for someone without full knowledge of the nuances of the language. But the counter-argument is that this is one of several derivations that are used in many countries, with no derogatory meaning – often in the same way someone could be called "pal" or "mate".

14-11-2011 03:39PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

then fine if its all in Spanish but say the only word in Spanish is the one reported, is that ok?

Why wouldn't it be?

SlickRic · 14-11-2011 03:42PM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

wrong, it can mean pal to friends which they are not. There are other meanings.

in other words, according to your description, yes, it does have the connotation of sounding like "nigg*r", which is why, ideally Suarez should've thought about it, maybe, before saying it in the heat of the moment.

but apparently, across many countries, it means "pal", so it was more a misunderstanding than wanting to racially abuse poor Patrice.

Kess73 · 14-11-2011 04:21PM

SlickRic wrote: »

in other words, according to your description, yes, it does have the connotation of sounding like "nigg*r", which is why, ideally Suarez should've thought about it, maybe, before saying it in the heat of the moment.

but apparently, across many countries, it means "pal", so it was more a misunderstanding than wanting to racially abuse poor Patrice.

What I am curious about is how close is the Spanish spoken in Uraguay to regular Spanish.

I am guessing not as close as many think given that negrito is meant to mean mate or pal in Uraguay.

kop77 · 14-11-2011 04:56PM

Kess73 wrote: »

What I am curious about is how close is the Spanish spoken in Uraguay to regular Spanish.

I am guessing not as close as many think given that negrito is meant to mean mate or pal in Uraguay.

I looked into this when this all started;

Uruguayan Spanish has a lot of differences to regular Spanish, they speak a combination of Spanish, Cocoliche (mixture of Spanish & Italian) and Portunol ( mixture of Spanish & Portuguese) so god knows........

mike65 · 14-11-2011 05:00PM

This looks like being a variation of "sat on my fanny and having a fag" type confusion.

Kess73 · 14-11-2011 05:01PM

mike65 wrote: »

This looks like being a variation of "sat on my fanny and having a fag" type confusion.

More along the lines of Steely Dan and good music being in the same sentence type confusion. :pac:

Pro. F · 14-11-2011 06:11PM

smokedeels wrote: »

I've read on various sources that Evra speaks Spanish but I can't get confirmation of this, does anybody know for sure?

Yes Evra speaks Spanish. There's a video of himself, Park and Tevez talking to some Korean interviewers and Evra says that Spanish is the language they use to chat to each other.

smokedeels wrote: »

And if it's just a Uruguayan-Spanish connotation, then tbh Suarez has been living in Western Europe for over five years, he should have known better.

According to the article Pacheco used the same term when tweeting to Thiago Alcantara recently. Both are Spanish so maybe it is used in Europe now too. Or maybe Pacheco just picked it up from Suarez.

I think an important question is whether this negrito term is used like 'pal' is used for everybody or is it just used as 'pal' for black people.

'Negro' means black in Spanish and 'ito' on the end of things means little. Like the way in Irishisms we put 'een' on the end of things. Surely a black guy would be within his rights to object to being called this. It would be more of a case of disagreement about what is acceptable than outright racist abuse then.

niallo27 · 14-11-2011 06:21PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes Evra speaks Spanish. There's a video of himself, Park and Tevez talking to some Korean interviewers and Evra says that Spanish is the language they use to chat to each other.

According to the article Pacheco used the same term when tweeting to Thiago Alcantara recently. Both are Spanish so maybe it is used in Europe now too. Or maybe Pacheco just picked it up from Suarez.

I think an important question iUs whether this negrito term is used like 'pal' is used for everybody or is it just used as 'pal' for black people.

'Negro' means black in Spanish and 'ito' on the end of things means little. Like the way in Irishisms we put 'een' on the end of things. Surely a black guy would be within his rights to object to being called this. It would be more of a case of disagreement about what is acceptable than outright racist abuse then.

One would could also say it could be seen as a misunderstanding between the players.

redzerdrog · 14-11-2011 06:46PM

I can just picture carra telling evra to f off a little nagging so and so ya have been nagging the hell out of me all day ya nag and jim coming on here claim that it was racist

Kess73 · 14-11-2011 06:48PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes Evra speaks Spanish. There's a video of himself, Park and Tevez talking to some Korean interviewers and Evra says that Spanish is the language they use to chat to each other.

According to the article Pacheco used the same term when tweeting to Thiago Alcantara recently. Both are Spanish so maybe it is used in Europe now too. Or maybe Pacheco just picked it up from Suarez.

I think an important question is whether this negrito term is used like 'pal' is used for everybody or is it just used as 'pal' for black people.

'Negro' means black in Spanish and 'ito' on the end of things means little. Like the way in Irishisms we put 'een' on the end of things. Surely a black guy would be within his rights to object to being called this. It would be more of a case of disagreement about what is acceptable than outright racist abuse then.

That's where I was going with the differences between the Spanish language in Spain (and mainland Europe) and the varients of the Spanish languiage in South America.

Negrito seems to mean mate or pal in Uraguay (and seemingly amongst young Spaniards, as Pacheco showed) as well as some of the other South American countries where it gets used both as a friendly term and as a sarcastic one similar to how the word mate can be used in english speaking countries, but if the word is taken literally in Spain it means little black person, and a google search shows it to also be the term used for pygmies in Asia and Africa by European explorers.

Kess73 · 14-11-2011 06:49PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

I can just picture carra telling evra to f off a little nagging so and so ya have been nagging the hell out of me all day ya nag and jim coming on here claim that it was racist

Evra would not have a clue what was being said unless he had Rooney nearby to translate for him.:pac:

redzerdrog · 14-11-2011 06:54PM

Kess73 wrote: »

redzerdrog wrote: »

I can just picture carra telling evra to f off a little nagging so and so ya have been nagging the hell out of me all day ya nag and jim coming on here claim that it was racist

Evra would not have a clue what was being said unless he had Rooney nearby to translate for him.:pac:

Thats why I used carra as an example to make sure the langauge barrier was still there!

DOC09UNAM · 14-11-2011 06:57PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes Evra speaks Spanish. There's a video of himself, Park and Tevez talking to some Korean interviewers and Evra says that Spanish is the language they use to chat to each other.

According to the article Pacheco used the same term when tweeting to Thiago Alcantara recently. Both are Spanish so maybe it is used in Europe now too. Or maybe Pacheco just picked it up from Suarez.

I think an important question iUs whether this negrito term is used like 'pal' is used for everybody or is it just used as 'pal' for black people.

'Negro' means black in Spanish and 'ito' on the end of things means little. Like the way in Irishisms we put 'een' on the end of things. Surely a black guy would be within his rights to object to being called this. It would be more of a case of disagreement about what is acceptable than outright racist abuse then.

One would could also say it could be seen as a misunderstanding between the players.

This.

Nobody is at fault, just misinterpretation imo.

Just declare suarez innocent and have evra apologize and it is done with.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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