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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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Comments

  • #4532
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    What signs!? That's exactly what I'm getting at! There are no signs whatsoever. The problem with the academy is that players aren't getting any chances to sink or swim.

    it's not going away..

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60777953

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62148594

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65327625

    I love the "more of me" stuff, considering that I've been beating this drum for about 2 years now, and if I, simply a rugby fan, could see the problem two years ago, and guys at the top at Munster couldn't, I begin to doubt their abilities tbh. You seem to think I have a personal vendetta here, I don't. I post the same things about the Irish squad, because it's something I've invested my time and faith in, I feel attached. It's utterly disappointing to me to see this happen.

    Read through the threads I've linked there, be honest, tell me what's changed. Pay special attention to your own posts from 2 years back in the first thread, and try to understand why I might not completely believe your insistence that a corner has indeed been turned.


  • #4533
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    ed7890 wrote: »
    I would be prefer more young players to get a run, but it's not all bad from McG. He has shown some faith in the younger players. I would say a lot of what you listed there is overstated, which isn't helpful in the discussion either.

    When Munster fans correct something like that, we're blindly defending our province and can't see the problems. We can.

    What is overstated though?
    They are all facts, which do help the discussion.


  • #4534
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What signs!? That's exactly what I'm getting at! There are no signs whatsoever. The problem with the academy is that players aren't getting any chances to sink or swim.

    it's not going away..

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60777953

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62148594

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65327625

    I love the "more of me" stuff, considering that I've been beating this drum for about 2 years now, and if I, simply a rugby fan, could see the problem two years ago, and guys at the top at Munster couldn't, I begin to doubt their abilities tbh. You seem to think I have a personal vendetta here, I don't. I post the same things about the Irish squad, because it's something I've invested my time and faith in, I feel attached. It's utterly disappointing to me to see this happen.

    Read through the threads I've linked there, be honest, tell me what's changed. Pay special attention to your own posts from 2 years back in the first thread, and try to understand why I might not completely believe your insistence that a corner has indeed been turned.

    If things hadn't changed, we wouldn't have Sherry, Nagle, POM, Murray or Barnes coming through, don't you see that?


  • #4535
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    wixfjord wrote: »
    What is overstated though?
    They are all facts, which do help the discussion.

    Well we don't know for sure yet that Barnes is behind Chambers. Chambers got the run last week, but reports are saying Barnes will be back in this week. If that's the case it's just squad rotation, which is fine.

    DOC is on the slide, but he's till holding his spot on the national side, so it's not that bad. Plus Ryan looks to be eclipsing him now, has played there in last 2 games. Nagle has been set back by his injury this year, hopefully the B&I games will get him sharp and he can get in the main squad.

    Zebo looks promising but I have no problem with Hurley getting the nod this weekend. Hurley is really solid defensively, which we need and Zebo is still a bit too raw. It's a long season, I'm confident Zebo will get his chance.

    I could be wrong but I'd expect POM will start this weekend too.

    I would like more being done sometimes, but it's not all doom and gloom. I appreciate it's a balancing act between blooding young players and winning games.


  • #4536
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    vinny chase wrote: »
    Who is Luke O'Dea? Any of the Munster fans able to say much about him?

    Think I've only seen him play once but he's doing quite well for Shannon in the AIL. Seems to be getting a few tries for them this season. Think he's from Ennis RFC by way of Munchins (maybe?). Not sure if he's still u20, but he was until fairly recently.


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  • #4537
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    If things hadn't changed, we wouldn't have Sherry, Nagle, POM, Murray or Barnes coming through, don't you see that?

    Flannery has been injured for 2 seasons - Sherry has had 8 starts and 17 sub appearances in that period
    Nagle has played 8 games in 2 seasons
    POM has finally broken through
    Murray has finally broken through
    Barnes has played ~15 times in 2 seasons

    solid amount of "changes" I think not..


  • #4538
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Flannery has been injured for 2 seasons - Sherry has had 8 starts and 17 sub appearances in that period
    Nagle has played 8 games in 2 seasons
    POM has finally broken through
    Murray has finally broken through
    Barnes has played ~15 times in 2 seasons

    solid amount of "changes" I think not..


    Sherry is currently injured.
    Nagle - two injuries in the last 12 months
    POM - missed second half of last season
    Barnes - broken elbow last season, broken finger this one.

    The only thing I can get from this discussions is you don't know players don't play if they are too injured to play.


  • #4539
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    update on the Ryan brothers...

    Having been released by Munster, Dave Ryan has decided to move to Italy and play with Lazio Rugby 1927 in Rome.
    All his friends in Dolphin wish him well, and should he return would be delighted to see him back in Dolphin colours.
    His older brother Timmy has also gone to Italy, he will be playing with Calvalieri Prato, they are based in Prato in Tuscany.

    ALways rated Dave at AIL level, far better scrummager than Timmy from what i'd seen


  • #4540
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Sherry is currently injured.
    Nagle - two injuries in the last 12 months
    POM - missed second half of last season
    Barnes - broken elbow last season, broken finger this one.

    The only thing I can get from this discussions is you don't know players don't play if they are too injured to play.

    So two succesful breakthroughs in 2 years, and then naming a few other players with promise, regular injuries and little to no gametime means that the Academy, and more importantly the use of the Academy's products, has "turned a corner"?

    Enough of the snide **** please, I'm being constructive in this debate, the least you could do would have a bit of respect.


  • #4541
    muscleshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭muscleshirt


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Think I've only seen him play once but he's doing quite well for Shannon in the AIL. Seems to be getting a few tries for them this season. Think he's from Ennis RFC by way of Munchins (maybe?). Not sure if he's still u20, but he was until fairly recently.
    i have seen him play with shannon...great pace and ok in defence..playing with the munster A friday note against the cornish pirates


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  • #4542
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    If things hadn't changed, we wouldn't have Sherry, Nagle, POM, Murray or Barnes coming through, don't you see that?

    Isn't the point though that the likes of Nagle, POM and Murray in particular have been "coming through" for 2 years now?

    Look at POM for example. In 2009 his name was being thrown about as an up and coming player. He has since had 8 starts and 11 appearances off the bench. He's had no HEC games.

    Compare that to Dominic Ryan at Leinster. He wasn't really talked about in those threads in 2009. Yet he has 21 starts and 10 appearances off the bench, including 1 start and 4 appearances off the bench in the HEC. And this when Leinster have the best back row in the country, possibly even in Europe.

    How about Barnes compared to EOM. EOM may be a year older than Barnes, but he's behind BOD with McFadden also pushing for that spot. Barnes is 10+6 vs EOM 28+7.

    Or how about Murray vs D Kearney. Both the same age, both being put forward as up and coming players in 2009. Murray is 10+5 to Kearneys 17+7. And Kearney is behind players like Horgan, Nacewa and McFadden on the wing. All players playing some of their best rugby the last season or so. And competing with Conway, a possibly star in the making if he could avoid injury for a while. Murray has been behind Stringer and TOL, players who have been on the decline. He should be way out in front of D Kearney.

    It would seem to me to be fairly obvious that Munster are more reluctant to bring their young fellas through. And I'm not saying any of that to knock Munster. It's just stating simple facts.


  • #4543
    profitius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    I don't think its as bad in Munster as some of the posts make out. As I've said there are good things happening and Munster do seem to be moving in the right direction now. There are some good players in the academy and in the coming years it looks like the academy will get stronger because of the work done in youths rugby. Clubs like Waterpark now have players in Irish squads.

    There was a massive gap between the last generation and this generation when the academy was as good as useless and nobody came through besides one or two players. That has changed in the last few seasons but it takes time for the work behind the scenes to bare fruit. Most of Barnes, Murray, POM, Sherry and Nagle will get international caps. They're all in their early 20's and a clear indication that Munster are starting to do some things right. Behind them you have more players making a push for the first team. Its going to be interesting to see how things play out in the next 2 - 5 seasons.


  • #4544
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So two succesful breakthroughs in 2 years, and then naming a few other players with promise, regular injuries and little to no gametime means that the Academy, and more importantly the use of the Academy's products, has "turned a corner"?

    Enough of the snide **** please, I'm being constructive in this debate, the least you could do would have a bit of respect.

    Yes, the standard of player from the Academy is visibly higher.


  • #4545
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Think I've only seen him play once but he's doing quite well for Shannon in the AIL. Seems to be getting a few tries for them this season. Think he's from Ennis RFC by way of Munchins (maybe?). Not sure if he's still u20, but he was until fairly recently.

    Not Munchins anyway. I've no idea where he went to school but, I remember hearing good stories about him from lads who played with him for Shannon.


  • #4546
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Yes, the standard of player from the Academy is visibly higher.

    Ignore it. If posters can't recognise that change for the good with regards to player development is under way, they obviously haven't paid close attention to Munster over the last few years. The improvement to the academy has probably been the only positive of McGahan's reign thus far. Sure things aren't great but, they do appear to be improving. It was always going to be easier for players to break through the smaller, less established squads of the other provinces. The lower amount of private rugby-playing boarding schools is a huge disadvantage too.


  • #4547
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Ignore it. If posters can't recognise that change for the good with regards to player development is under way, they obviously haven't paid close attention to Munster over the last few years. The improvement to the academy has probably been the only positive of McGahan's reign thus far. Sure things aren't great but, they do appear to be improving. It was always going to be easier for players to break through the smaller, less established squads of the other provinces. The lower amount of private rugby-playing boarding schools is a huge disadvantage too.

    I'm asking, what are the changes? Instead of answers, I've been given "turned a corner", "change for the good", "right path".

    What are the changes? I'd be pretty impressed if anyone on here could actually quantify changes as opposed to giving superflous waffle as an answer. So far I've asked the same question perhaps 5 times in the past 2 months and nobody has once managed it.


  • #4548
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm asking, what are the changes? Instead of answers, I've been given "turned a corner", "change for the good", "right path".

    What are the changes? I'd be pretty impressed if anyone on here could actually quantify changes as opposed to giving superflous waffle as an answer. So far I've asked the same question perhaps 5 times in the past 2 months and nobody has once managed it.

    I think the point that is trying to be made is that it's obvious that the players coming through are of a higher quality. They haven't been introduced as much as you'd hope for, we are still behind in that fact and I definitely think more opportunities should be giving to the younger players who are around the same level as older ones, I think everyone does.

    But it is fairly clear from even their limited appearances that players like Murray, POM, Nagle, Barnes, Zebo are of a higher standard than those a few years ago. They're not going to solve all our problems or anything like that but they have impressed more in their gametime than those before did in similar time periods.

    That's all that's being said. Simply that these players are better than those from the past few years.


  • #4549
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm asking, what are the changes? Instead of answers, I've been given "turned a corner", "change for the good", "right path".

    What are the changes? I'd be pretty impressed if anyone on here could actually quantify changes as opposed to giving superflous waffle as an answer. So far I've asked the same question perhaps 5 times in the past 2 months and nobody has once managed it.

    No you just ignore any argument that is presented to you. Whenever you are presented with a list of players who are getting a shot, all you do is state that those players aren't getting as much games as their Leinster counterparts. We are talking about progress at Munster and the current crop of youngsters are looking much more talented and getting a much better shot than the groups before them.

    The likelihood is that at least two of POM, Murray and Barnes will start on Saturday; Sherry would have had a great shot at starting were he not injured too. That's 4 players that have made huge breakthroughs in the last 6 months. The only players to make a huge breakthrough in Munster in the 6years previous were probably Earls, TOL and Leamy. If one can't recognise that as progress, they are either ignorant or stupid.


  • #4550
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    That's all that's being said. Simply that these players are better than those from the past few years.

    But the problem that I've described above is actually nothing to do with the players quality, it's a reluctance and a refusal to afford opportunities to these players. What will you ever find out about a player that never plays? There is a bottleneck sitting right in between the academy and the first team, and that has not changed. The appearances numbers corroborate that, and genuinely there have only been a few players that Munster have afforded regular senior starts to based on their performances in "lower" games, and not simply due to injury.

    Conor Murray and Peter O'Mahoney, and perhaps Barnes are among the only guys that have managed to play from the Academy into the first team without the player ahead of them being ran into the ground by selectors / getting injured / retiring, and even they've benefitted from woeful form, injuries and international duties.

    Quick Question. If Munster were playing Dragons at home in January, would POC or Nagle play? Would ROG or Keatley play? Would Zebo or Hurley play? Now the big thing is I'm not calling for 15 kids to play, I'm saying that we should be seeing elements of these players at opportunities like the above, but to be completely honest, and backed up by the stats, it's simply not happening.

    The single biggest problem that I can see is that instead of gradually exposing each of these players into the bigger games, and letting them find their feet, they are all going to reach a point where they will literally be propelled into the games, as the player that they should have been understudy to, as opposed to boot boy for, retires/gets injured/plays in the 6N. There's learning to be done past Academy stage. It's not rocket science, the analogy I gave was that you don't hear much of a Grand National winner practising races at Shelbourne Park. This is the core problem that many choose to blissfully ignore.


  • #4551
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    profitius wrote: »
    I don't think its as bad in Munster as some of the posts make out. As I've said there are good things happening and Munster do seem to be moving in the right direction now. There are some good players in the academy and in the coming years it looks like the academy will get stronger because of the work done in youths rugby. Clubs like Waterpark now have players in Irish squads.

    There was a massive gap between the last generation and this generation when the academy was as good as useless and nobody came through besides one or two players. That has changed in the last few seasons but it takes time for the work behind the scenes to bare fruit. Most of Barnes, Murray, POM, Sherry and Nagle will get international caps. They're all in their early 20's and a clear indication that Munster are starting to do some things right. Behind them you have more players making a push for the first team. Its going to be interesting to see how things play out in the next 2 - 5 seasons.
    As much as i dont like saying it but things are very bad in the player development system in munster at the moment, some elements are improving but others are being totally held back by some people involved who dont want things to improve as it will hurt them in the long run.
    The academy has improved recently but some of the great work being done at sub academy level is being ruined by coaches at u/age provincial level picking players because of where they are from, who they are related to etc.
    Waterpark does have players in irish squads but their is coaches involved at regional level from clubs like waterpark who are screwing better players out of their chance to play at a higher level and choosing less talented(though talented at the same time) players from waterpark
    Munster has a real "Jobs For The Boys" system that doesnt look like going away for quite a while


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  • #4552
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm asking, what are the changes? Instead of answers, I've been given "turned a corner", "change for the good", "right path".

    What are the changes? I'd be pretty impressed if anyone on here could actually quantify changes as opposed to giving superflous waffle as an answer. So far I've asked the same question perhaps 5 times in the past 2 months and nobody has once managed it.

    I think it's one of those things you have to look at the standard of players.

    Which group do you think is better?

    Fogs, Holland, TOD, Williams, Gleeson, Hurley

    v.

    Sherry, Nagle, POM, Murray, Barnes, Zebo.

    Is it not striking how much better the second group is? Is that not evidence that better players are being produced?


  • #4553
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Munster probably should have been more prepared for the loss of Wallace as he's 35, but then Leinster have no real replacement ready for BOD and he's 32. Wallace was still playing well and would have easily been first choice again this season. Maybe this season was when they were going to ease someone in.

    Hooker is the bigger concern. Flannery hasn't started a game for Munster since the season before last and even then it was only 5 games. It's almost pointless discussing him as a loss or injury at this stage as I imagine he's either permanently gone or very close to it. But then the Sherry injury was poorly timed too.


  • #4554
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    ormond lad wrote: »
    As much as i dont like saying it but things are very bad in the player development system in munster at the moment, some elements are improving but others are being totally held back by some people involved who dont want things to improve as it will hurt them in the long run.
    The academy has improved recently but some of the great work being done at sub academy level is being ruined by coaches at u/age provincial level picking players because of where they are from, who they are related to etc.
    Waterpark does have players in irish squads but their is coaches involved at regional level from clubs like waterpark who are screwing better players out of their chance to play at a higher level and choosing less talented(though talented at the same time) players from waterpark
    Munster has a real "Jobs For The Boys" system that doesnt look like going away for quite a while

    While that's true, so much of that is beyond McGahan's control. All I'm saying is under his tenure, the Academy is getting better.


  • #4555
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    No you just ignore any argument that is presented to you. Whenever you are presented with a list of players who are getting a shot, all you do is state that those players aren't getting as much games as their Leinster counterparts. We are talking about progress at Munster and the current crop of youngsters are looking much more talented and getting a much better shot than the groups before them.

    The likelihood is that at least two of POM, Murray and Barnes will start on Saturday; Sherry would have had a great shot at starting were he not injured too. That's 4 players that have made huge breakthroughs in the last 6 months. The only players to make a huge breakthrough in Munster in the 6years previous were probably Earls, TOL and Leamy. If one can't recognise that as progress, they are either ignorant or stupid

    All I do is quantify what "getting a shot" is. I don't believe 1 start and 8 sub appearances in a 30 game season is "getting a shot". Happily enough there are plenty of players North, West and East all getting shots and playing 15/20 times per season. If you'd prefer me to talk about Gilroy, Spence and McAllister, or Griffen and O'Halloran I'd be more than happy to entertain those as examples of players "getting shots".

    The thing is though, realistically, how many of those players have you named are "breakthroughs"? Would Sherry have gotten any time whatsoever had Flannery been fit? Would POM be relegated back to the B&I cup if Wallace was fit?

    Barnes and Murray I'll give you, but Barnes still hasn't really done much in the way of proving himself as anything bar an eager young player. He hasn't actually had that many games in a Red Jersey tbh.

    A lot will be learned from the HEC selection tbh.


  • #4556
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    While that's true, so much of that is beyond McGahan's control. All I'm saying is under his tenure, the Academy is getting better.
    The academy is getting better but their is huge problems in choosing of the squads that are part of the sub academy, you go to interpro games etv and see lads(and while i seem harsh all these players are ultimately aiming for academy/sub academy spots so you have to be critical to a great extent) who are not up to the standard(and others who are better players are not making the squads for unknown reasons and that is affecting the quality of players entering the academy


  • #4557
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I think it's one of those things you have to look at the standard of players.
    Is it not striking how much better the second group is? Is that not evidence that better players are being produced?

    It's evidence that the Academy has started picking and producing players that look to the average punter that they might actually be a professional rugby player. There's still very very little evidence that players are going to be used unless the incumbent is A -50, B - Injured, C - Unavailable.

    We honest to God know very little about any of the first group of players bar Hurley, who, when given a run in the team has never let the side down. He's not going to beat Habana for pace, but other than him, none of the above group was ever offered an opportunity to show they could play.

    Who knows, the next Donnacha Ryan "Giant in the Wings" could be within that group, but for all the exposure that they get to top level rugby, we'll never find out.


  • #4558
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    ormond lad wrote: »
    The academy is getting better but their is huge problems in choosing of the squads that are part of the sub academy, you go to interpro games etv and see lads(and while i seem harsh all these players are ultimately aiming for academy/sub academy spots so you have to be critical to a great extent) who are not up to the standard(and others who are better players are not making the squads for unknown reasons and that is affecting the quality of players entering the academy

    I agree that's a massive problem but the only way to solve it is to have an external scouting system which brings it's own problems.


  • #4559
    profitius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    ormond lad wrote: »
    As much as i dont like saying it but things are very bad in the player development system in munster at the moment, some elements are improving but others are being totally held back by some people involved who dont want things to improve as it will hurt them in the long run.
    The academy has improved recently but some of the great work being done at sub academy level is being ruined by coaches at u/age provincial level picking players because of where they are from, who they are related to etc.
    Waterpark does have players in irish squads but their is coaches involved at regional level from clubs like waterpark who are screwing better players out of their chance to play at a higher level and choosing less talented(though talented at the same time) players from waterpark
    Munster has a real "Jobs For The Boys" system that doesnt look like going away for quite a while

    No doubt theres more to do. The system is far from perfect and we need more centers coming through. It has improved from where it was so thats a positive.


  • #4560
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The Leinster squad has 41 players in it:
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php

    The Ulster squad has 39 players in it:
    http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/ulster_first_team.php

    The Munster squad listed on their website for the 08/09 season (this was McGahan's first in charge) has 38 players in it:

    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/squadprofiles.php?includeref=dynamic&filter=yes&searchyear=2008&searchname=

    Now the current squad is far bigger at 48 players but contains a lot more younger or inexperienced players in it:

    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/squadprofiles.php?includeref=dynamic&filter=yes&searchyear=2011&searchname=

    The Munster squad has made moves in the right direction but is still all over the place if you ask me. 48 players is a luxury but when you look at it more closely it's not as strong as you may think and is very lopsided in certain positions.

    They currently have 4 scrum halves, 3 of whom would want to be first choice (Murray, O' Leary, and Stringer). That's too many.

    There is a problem with second row too as they have POC, DOC, MOD, Ryan, Nagle, and possible Holland too. Again this is far too many as 4 of these would want to first choice.

    Look at the back three where they have Howlett, Earls, Zebo, Murphy, Denis Hurley, Scanlon, Deasy, Troy Smith, and Felix Jones. There is not enough quality/trusted out and out full backs here.

    The centres are Mafi, Gleeson, Dineen, Chambers, and Barnes. Dineen is 24 and has 1 start. Gleeson is 26 and has 11 starts since 06/07. Chambers is on a short term deal. That just leaves Barnes and Mafi really.

    This doesn't make any sense! There are far too many guys for some positions and then barely any in others.


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  • #4561
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Indeed, but the problem is where we have depth we also tend to lose players to Irish duty.


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