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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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  • #872
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Paul Tergat wrote: »
    you are talking bollocks. read the thread and you will see there are very few saying he is guilty until proven innocent and thats its a case that you are unlikely to prove it either way.

    Indeed, the reasonable posters on both sides are saying nothing can be determined either way atm.

    There's the usual few stirrers, stirring, besides that, and creating a lot of noise.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #873
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    See my response to Alan above for the first part. And see all the talk in the thread about camera angles and lip reading for the other bit. But I doubt you will think about either because you are obviously completely biased on this topic and refuse to think beyond the simplest terms.

    Well if you had read a few posts back, you would see that i think both parties are innocent in this incident, I think it was a misunderstanding, just because i think Suarez is innocent doesnt automatically mean i think evra is a liar.


  • #874
    Crazy Horse 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Crazy Horse 6


    flahavaj wrote: »
    If you're in a confrontation with someone and you refrer to them as such though its almost certainly going to be taken as a racist comment 9quite rightly). In the same way that someone being black is a fact, if you call them a "black" anything during a row its only going to be taken one way.

    Please don't take the Eagle Eye stance on this one Al.
    32031701-wtf-reactionf-.gif


  • #875
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Blatter wrote: »
    Ha, I'm not giving them equal weight by any means. I'm just saying he raises some interesting points and it's worth a read.:)

    No it's not worth a read. It has about as much validity as the posts made here by some Man U fans.


  • #876
    Nalz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,034 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    No it's not worth a read. It has about as much validity as the posts made here by some Man U fans.

    17


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  • #877
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Trilla wrote: »
    17

    That many, eh? Who'd have thunk it.......


  • #878
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Pro. F wrote: »

    What a shìt post.

    How about you point out the flaws in its validity rather than assume everybody should just believe you.

    And which United fans are you referring to? Have you got the balls to enter the discussion or are you just going to hope you can tarnish any and all arguments put forward by United fans with your vague insults?

    Fùcking pathetic.

    Steady on now. That offering is a blog. An opinion. An opinion by someone who calls himself ">>>THE RED". Hardly a solid basis for impartiality.

    "Vague insults"? What? "Any and All"? You seem like an intelligent chap, I'm pretty sure you can see which Man U fans above see only damnable guilt for Suarez in spite of no evidence to support Evra's claims having come into the public realm.


  • #879
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    That offering is a blog. An opinion. An opinion by someone who calls himself ">>>THE RED". Hardly a solid basis for impartiality.

    So the fact that it was written by a United fan means it has no validity? That reasoning is beyond stupid.
    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    "Vague insults"? What? "Any and All"? You seem like an intelligent chap, I'm pretty sure you can see which Man U fans above see only damnable guilt for Suarez in spite of no evidence to support Evra's claims having come into the public realm.

    You should have made it clear which United fans' posts you had a problem with in the first place. It was in no way a constructive contribution to the thread.


  • #880
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    What evidence are you basing your opinion that there was a misunderstanding on? Anybody with an iota of sense at this stage would say that they just don't know because all we have to go on is what each has said. The assumption of innocence doesn't mean you work out one possible way that both of them could be telling the truth and then believe that. That's just retarded.

    And you have already admitted that you are biased about this so there's no point trying to pretend that you're not now.



    What a shìt post.

    How about you point out the flaws in its validity rather than assume everybody should just believe you.

    And which United fans are you referring to? Have you got the balls to enter the discussion or are you just going to hope you can tarnish any and all arguments put forward by United fans with your vague insults?

    Fùcking pathetic.

    Who rattled your cage, you do know this is a forum yes, where people give their opinions, my opinion is there no evidence to support Evras claims, innocent until proven guilty. If you were not so biased yourself, you would not be getting so worked up.


  • #881
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Who rattled your cage, you do know this is a forum yes, where people give their opinions, my opinion is there no evidence to support Evras claims, innocent until proven guilty. If you were not so biased yourself, you would not be getting so worked up.

    I imagine posts like this are annoying him.
    niallo27 wrote: »
    Well don't nearly all utd fans back evra and believe he is telling the truth and that he was racially abused even though there is no evidence to back this.

    There is a lot of unreasonable posts in this thread claiming United fans are saying things they clearly are not saying.


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  • #882
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Who rattled your cage, you do know this is a forum yes, where people give their opinions, my opinion is there no evidence to support Evras claims, innocent until proven guilty. If you were not so biased yourself, you would not be getting so worked up.

    Yes it is an internet forum and yes people are entitled to their opinions. Your particular opinion is retarded. I have shown you why.

    I am not biased. Show the bias in my argument. The fact I'm being abrasive with you is only because you are wasting my time with your retarded bullshìt.


  • #883
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    You're some man to talk Mr. Presentable, after coming out with this a few weeks ago;
    Originally Posted by Mr. Presentable

    Evra.

    Accused Finnan of racism
    Accused Luiz (I think) of racism
    Accused a member of staff at Chelsea of racism

    None upheld.

    I think you may be the last person left he hasn't accused.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74964179&postcount=1489


    And you claim other peoples' opinions on this subject lack validity?:pac:


  • #884
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Yes it is an internet forum and yes people are entitled to their opinions. Your particular opinion is retarded. I have shown you why.

    I am not biased. Show the bias in my argument. The fact I'm being abrasive with you is only because you are wasting my time with your retarded bullshìt.

    My opinion that suarez is innocent until proven gulity is retarted?, there is no evidence to support evras claims, so he has to be presumed innocent, how can you not understand this. I pity the poor ****er if you are ever on jury duty.

    Why dont you attack your fellow utd supporters who sais suarez was a racist, the ones that came to the opinion suarez might have called evra a NIG, or the ones that say he has told the truth before so he is appartently telling the truth again.


  • #885
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    niallo27 wrote: »
    My opinion that suarez is innocent until proven gulity is retarted, there is no evidence to support evras claims, so he has to be presumed innocent, how can you not understand this. I pity the poor ****er if you are ever on jury duty.
    You have either missed out a word or a question mark or something in your first sentence. It is a shambles so I don't know how I'm supposed to respond to it.
    niallo27 wrote: »
    Why dont you attack your fellow utd supporters who sais suarez was a racist,

    Because I didn't read any of them making false and stupid claims about what ''nearly all United fans'' think.

    This has been a very busy thread and I've been involved in plenty of complicated arguments to keep me busy. Some of the bullshìt just gets ignored. I agree that there has been bias and crap from some United fans. But you directly made an accusation about bias from ''nearly all'' United fans so I responded.
    niallo27 wrote: »
    the ones that came to the opinion suarez might have called evra a NIG, or the ones that say he has told the truth before so he is appartently telling the truth again.

    Des used the NIG thing as an absolute abstract theoretical example for the sake of an argument. You really cannot be this thick!

    I don't know what the last one is about (the previous truth telling one), but judging by every other contribution you have made to this thread it is probably spurious too.


  • #886
    J. Marston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,349 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Blatter wrote: »
    You're some man to talk Mr. Presentable, after coming out with this a few weeks ago;



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74964179&postcount=1489


    And you claim other peoples' opinions on this subject lack validity?:pac:

    1, 2, 3, 4....Ah, he's not getting up from that. This one is all over!


  • #887
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    You have either missed out a word or a question mark or something in your first sentence. It is a shambles so I don't know how I'm supposed to respond to it.



    Because I didn't read any of them making false and stupid claims about what ''nearly all United fans'' think.

    This has been a very busy thread and I've been involved in plenty of complicated arguments to keep me busy. Some of the bullshìt just gets ignored. I agree that there has been bias and crap from some United fans. But you directly made an accusation about bias from ''nearly all'' United fans so I responded.



    Des used the NIG thing as an absolute abstract theoretical example for the sake of an argument. You really cannot be this thick!

    I don't know what the last one is about (the previous truth telling one), but judging by every other contribution you have made to this thread it is probably spurious too.

    Do you or do you not think Suarez should be presumed innocent until evidence to prove otherwise is found?. Thats a question by the way, please see how many ways you can insult me in your response.


  • #888
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Do you or do you not think Suarez should be presumed innocent until evidence to prove otherwise is found?. Thats a question by the way, please see how many ways you can insult me in your response.

    Yes I do. Obviously.
    I also think that Evra should be assumed innocent of lying until evidence is found otherwise.

    The only thing that I think about the truth of the situation is that I don't know what the truth is, because there is shag all evidence.


  • #889
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Yes I do. Obviously.
    I also think that Evra should be assumed innocent of lying until evidence is found otherwise.

    The only thing that I think about the truth of the situation is that I don't know what the truth is, because there is shag all evidence.

    There is no evidence so yes Suarez has to be presumed innocent, I do think evra is innocent myself, I honestly think it was a misunderstanding between the players, I have no evidence of this, it's just my opinion.


  • #890
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    niallo27 wrote: »
    There is no evidence so yes Suarez has to be presumed innocent, I do think evra is innocent myself, I honestly think it was a misunderstanding between the players, I have no evidence of this, it's just my opinion.

    What are you basing this opinion on?

    Yes that scenario could be the case, but it's ridiculously stupid to come to any sort of a conclusion in this case at the moment.


  • #891
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Blatter wrote: »
    You're some man to talk Mr. Presentable, after coming out with this a few weeks ago;



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74964179&postcount=1489


    And you claim other peoples' opinions on this subject lack validity?:pac:

    My opinions are not being used to support anything (perhaps rightly) whereas a blog with no authority other than opinion was presented as argument in support of your position. There is a difference, but I suppose it isn't convenient for you to see that.


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  • #892
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    My opinions are not being used to support anything (perhaps rightly) whereas a blog with no authority other than opinion was presented as argument in support of your position. There is a difference, but I suppose it isn't convenient for you to see that.

    Your claims about Evra weren't your opinions, they were statements you represented as fact.

    You were wrong, wrong, wrong. You didn't even have the grace to admit you were wrong, retract and apologise.


    I posted a blog that contained different viewpoints to the what the FA concluded in an investigation. I never said it was perfect nor did I use it definitively to back up any argument.

    Your notion that it's existence is entirely invalid because a) it's 'a blog with no authority' and b) it was written by a United fan, is beyond retarded.

    How about you read it, and debate what you don't agree with in it rather than dismiss it off hand like a 10 year old child?

    Your contributions on this topic so far have been ****ing pathetic.


  • #893
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    In fairness they were reperesented as statements of fact but he got it wrong.

    We have all got something wrong from time to time.


  • #894
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    amiable wrote: »
    In fairness they were reperesented as statements of fact but he got it wrong.

    We have all got something wrong from time to time.

    We do get things wrong from time to time. I would like to think that when most of us recognise it, we retract our statements and apologise, especially when it comes to a topic such as racism. But no he didn't have the grace to do that.

    And then cheek of him to then dismiss other some posters' opinions without engaging and explaining why and who he disagreed with. And then to dismiss a blog off hand as invalid(again, without actually engaging with any of the points in the blog) because it was written by a United fan and it didn't have 'authority'.

    He's just making himself look really foolish.


  • #895
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Great stamina in here lads. At this stage I think Evra is Blatter and Suarez is Mr Alan :D

    It's like the OJ simpson trial. The SF forum split down the middle.

    That trial was probably settled quicker than this though :pac:


  • #896
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Great stamina in here lads. At this stage I think Evra is Blatter and Suarez is Mr Alan :D

    It's like the OJ simpson trial. The SF forum split down the middle.

    That trial was probably settled quicker than this though :pac:

    :pac:

    And Mr. Presentable is Tevez. Hovering around acting the tit and just pissing people off in general. :D


  • #897
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Blatter wrote: »
    Sounds like there may have been some truth in that paper report last week that said Suarez may have called Evra a Negro but is claiming that it's not interpreted as a racist term in Uruguay.

    The FA would want to hurry on with this. The length of time it's taking would indicate to me that it's not a cut and dry situation and there is a lot of thinking for them to do on this. I know they're normally slow but this is taking the p*ss.
    Blatter wrote: »
    What are you basing this opinion on?

    Yes that scenario could be the case, but it's ridiculously stupid to come to any sort of a conclusion in this case at the moment.


    Yes it would be incredibly stupid to have an opinion on what happened that day.


  • #898
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Yes it would be incredibly stupid to have an opinion on what happened that day.

    Key word highlighted;
    Sounds like there may have been

    I have not made any definitive judgement, you on the other hand have done.

    It's not that hard to understand.


  • #899
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Blatter wrote: »
    Key word highlighted;



    I have not made any definitive judgement, you on the other hand have done.

    It's not that hard to understand.

    I said it was my opinion on what happened on that day, i never said it was definite


  • #900
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    niallo27 wrote: »
    I said it was my opinion on what happened on that day, i never said it was definite

    I asked you what you were basing that opinion on and you have not answered. Do you not think it's a stretch to go around saying you **think** you know what happened, with so little evidence available?


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  • #901
    SlickRic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,650 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Blatter wrote: »
    Flah is talking about those who were assuming that Evra has lied, and there were plenty who did that.

    He and I, and most United fans (as far as I can see) have not assumed Suarez is a racist.

    But the key is, we're also not assuming Evra is lying. It is possible not to assume either, and it is the correct course of action at the moment in this case.

    i just look forward to the verdict to see what happens.

    as i say, Evra is in a no-lose situation in this, and that's my qualm - not that i want him "done"...it's just a tricky situation.

    if Evra can't prove it, and Suarez is found innocent, this will then leave it open to others to make accusations in the future about people, if action isn't at that point taken against Evra.

    if Suarez is found guilty, well then it's an open-shut case obviously.


This discussion has been closed.
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