Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

amiable · 08-11-2011 01:10PM

Des wrote: »

yep. I'm more comfortable with that than I am with victims of hate crime hiding away, afraid to say anything.

Sure look at Evra's reputation now among Pool fans and further afield, they think he's some kind of "boy who cried wolf" - I agree that people shouldn't be casting frivolous assertions, but if you do it too many times without proof or back up, people will eventually see you for the bullshít artist you are.

Looks like there's no easy solution

_blank_ · 08-11-2011 01:11PM

amiable wrote: »

Looks like there's no easy solution

Especially when there are lunatic opinions like the following about the place.

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

I certainly dont, even if he said something (which I dont believe he did) I hope he gets away with it. He is far to important to lose over a silly incident like this. Having him on the field is the most important thing.

The world is getting far too PC imo. The latest incident with Tiger woods is proof of this imo, it wasnt even nearly racist imo.

Of course he should be banned. Racism is not "trivial".

amiable · 08-11-2011 01:11PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

I certainly dont, even if he said something (which I dont believe he did) I hope he gets away with it. He is far to important to lose over a silly incident like this. Having him on the field is the most important thing.

The world is getting far too PC imo. The latest incident with Tiger woods is proof of this imo, it wasnt even nearly racist imo.

I have to disagree.

If Suarez called Evra a ****** 10 times i want him punished.
No place for it in society IMO.

08-11-2011 01:14PM

Blatter wrote: »

Im not, no agenda.

Suarez had admitted saying something.

He talks about saying things in Spanish and English and he said he (and Evra's teamates) were surprised at Evra's reaction, which hints that hes claiming a 'misunderstanding'.

That misunderstanding, could have been that paper report last week, where Suarez could have called Evra a Negro, but is claiming he didn't mean it as a racial/offensive comment as it's used in Uruguay all the time.

I never said that was the case, just saying that there's grounds to believe that it's a possibility.

I guess what I meant is...It's all hear say that Suarez said negro at the minute. The Mirror printed that story and had no quotes from anyone so I wouldn't treat it as fact.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 08-11-2011 01:14PM

Women (or men) who cry rape when it is not true are subject to the law and can be jailed for making thing up. Why should racism be any different? Both are hate crimes (in some respects) but if you lie about it occurring (and TBH I have no idea whether the alleged crime occurred or not) then you should be subjected to a similar ruling.

08-11-2011 01:15PM

amiable wrote: »

I have to disagree.

If Suarez called Evra a ****** 10 times i want him punished.
No place for it in society IMO.

Personally I rather have him on the field winning us games regardless.

Nalz · 08-11-2011 01:16PM

Des wrote: »

"He is a black man" - "Two men robbed the bank, a white man and a black man" Not Racist - Descriptive

"He is a black cúnt" - "He is a fúcking nígger bastard" - "Some black wanker stole my bike" - Racist!

"Hey negro!" - context. one black dude to another - not racist. A white guy to his black friend who is ok with it - not racist. White guy using it to a black guy, who he doesn't know, but the black guy's friends do it - probably racist, if not extremely stupid.

Using common sense and in 99% of time this is correct. But is this in stone and written down anywhere? I've heard agruments from both sides. I'm with you on this its all down to context but just sharing the arguments I've heard.

Take your "He's a black cúnt" example. This is describing the persons skin and calling him a cúnt. Its not insulting a race or a country some would say.

Also, I've heard suggestions like - the soccer pitch is a battle of wits and players should take it on the chin during the 90mins. Most of us have played ball over the years and have got the "fat bastárd", "skinny príck", "I had your ouwl wan last night" comments. I'm not comparing, condoning or pardoning racism remarks, after all this is not my suggestion… but what I heard suggested is if players turn a blind eye to the remarks only and on the pitch only. If it creeps into the stands it becomes a bigger issue.

_blank_ · 08-11-2011 01:17PM

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Women (or men) who cry rape when it is not true are subject to the law and can be jailed for making thing up. Why should racism be any different? Both are hate crimes (in some respects) but if you lie about it occurring (and TBH I have no idea whether the alleged crime occurred or not) then you should be subjected to a similar ruling.

But, in this case, Suarez has basically admitted he said "something" to Evra.

Who are we to judge what Evra should or should not find offensive?

I agree that he probably shouldn't have spoke to the media though.

Leiva · 08-11-2011 01:17PM

Never did understand how one black person calls another black person a Ni**r and then Hi 5. ??

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 01:20PM

Des wrote: »

yep. I'm more comfortable with that than I am with victims of hate crime hiding away, afraid to say anything.

Sure look at Evra's reputation now among Pool fans and further afield, they think he's some kind of "boy who cried wolf" - I agree that people shouldn't be casting frivolous assertions, but if you do it too many times without proof or back up, people will eventually see you for the bullshít artist you are.

Evra's reputation is as a result of false allegations made by Manchester Utd against a Chelsea staff member. Not of a genuine racist incident Evra reported.

Des wrote: »

But, in this case, Suarez has basically admitted he said "something" to Evra.

Who are we to judge what Evra should or should not find offensive?

I agree that he probably shouldn't have spoke to the media though.

So if Suarez said, "I'm gonna tea bag your wife later!"

It's then acceptable for Evra to publically brand Suarez a racist!?

It's never been in dispute that Suarez said "something" to Evra, its the accussation that it was the "n" word (presumably) or a word with the same meaning more than 10 times thats being disputed.

_blank_ · 08-11-2011 01:22PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Evra's reputation is as a result of false allegations made by Manchester Utd against a Chelsea staff member. Not of a genuine racist incident Evra reported..

Er, I know - did you not read my post properly and decide to attack me for no reason?

Mr Alan wrote: »

So if Suarez said, "I'm gonna tea bag your wife later!"

It's then acceptable for Evra to publically brand Suarez a racist!? .

~What the holy jaysis are you talking about Alan, you've actually lost the plot here.

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's never been in dispute that Suarez said "something" to Evra, its the accussation that it was the "n" word (presumably) or a word with the same meaning more than 10 times thats being disputed.

I know.

Are you ok, do you need a sit down?

Blatter · 08-11-2011 01:25PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Never did understand how one black person calls another black person a Ni**r and then Hi 5. ??

It originated as a claim of social power. The word 'n*****' is now their word and not say John Terry's.

I personally don't agree with them using it at all, but the context is completely different to when a white person calls a black person a n*****.

Blatter · 08-11-2011 01:27PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

I guess what I meant is...It's all hear say that Suarez said negro at the minute. The Mirror printed that story and had no quotes from anyone so I wouldn't treat it as fact.

It is all hearsay, but this latest development can be interpreted to support the Mirror's claims.

I agree though, I wouldn't treat it as fact by any means and nor should anyone else, I'm just putting it out there that it may have been accurate.

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 01:28PM

Des wrote: »

~What the holy jaysis are you talking about Alan, you've actually lost the plot here.

You said Suarez has admitted saying "something" & basically who are we to say what Evra deems a racist insult?!

You then say, "well the FA should talk to Suarez as he obviously said something!".....no they shouldn't. They should talk to him if he said something racist and/or said something that a normal person would construe as being racist. If he did neither (which he says he didn't as per my reading of it), they should say nowt to him.

Mr. Presentable · 08-11-2011 01:31PM

It's odd that in an era when each player is followed by camera during a game there is no capture of Suarez being abusive, yet John Terry utters one word and it's caught and shown over and over.

Kess73 · 08-11-2011 01:32PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

You said Suarez has admitted saying "something" & basically who are we to say what Evra deems a racist insult?!

You then say, "well the FA should talk to Suarez as he obviously said something!".....no they shouldn't. They should talk to him if he said something racist and/or said something that a normal person would construe as being racist. If he did neither (which he says he didn't as per my reading of it), they should say nowt to him.

Read it again Al. Des said who are we to deem what Evra finds an offensive comment, not what Evra deems a racist one.

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 01:44PM

Evra hasn't claimed that Suarez offended him. His said he barraged him with a particular racial insult over & over.

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 01:47PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

It's odd that in an era when each player is followed by camera during a game there is no capture of Suarez being abusive, yet John Terry utters one word and it's caught and shown over and over.

It is very strange.

Le King · 08-11-2011 01:58PM

So Suarez and Terry are racists. The list goes on and on.

amiable · 08-11-2011 01:59PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

It's odd that in an era when each player is followed by camera during a game there is no capture of Suarez being abusive, yet John Terry utters one word and it's caught and shown over and over.

And the likes of Ollie Holt who has been very vocal against racism has gone very quiet IMO lately on it.

No coincidence then that he helped write a book with John Terry.
It would seem that the English media want you to believe that the problem is outside the UK.

On the poster that just wants Liverpool to have Suarez playing no matter what, that's not how Liverpool got to the summit.

Racism is disgusting. Simple as that. No excuse

Crazy Horse 6 · 08-11-2011 02:07PM

Le King wrote: »

So Suarez and Terry are racists. The list goes on and on.

How you figure?

Blackhorse Slim · 08-11-2011 02:27PM

If, as seems to be the case, Suarez heard a nickname Evra is called by team-mates, which Evra is presumably ok with, and called him by the same nickname, not understanding all the connotations such a name may have in a language he is not fully fluent in - is that racism?

_blank_ · 08-11-2011 02:33PM

Blackhorse Slim wrote: »

If, as seems to be the case, Suarez heard a nickname Evra is called by team-mates, which Evra is presumably ok with, and called him by the same nickname, not understanding all the connotations such a name may have in a language he is not fully fluent in - is that racism?

Why would Suarez, who isn't Evra's friend, clearly, decide to use a nickname for him that his friends use. That is not normal behaviour.

If I know a guy called John Smith, who works for a rival of a company I only joined in the last year or so, and at some industry event his colleagues from his office are all calling him "Chunky" or something, I don't start calling him "Chunky" also, he'd be well within his rights to get offended tbh. I call him John, unless and until he introduces himself to me as "Chunky".

irelandrover · 08-11-2011 02:34PM

Blatter wrote: »

It originated as a claim of social power. The word 'n*****' is now their word and not say John Terry's.

I personally don't agree with them using it at all, but the context is completely different to when a white person calls a black person a n*****.

This is the problem in my opinion. If a black person can call another black person a n****r without punishment how can you punish a white person? If you say it is accepted for a black person to say it, then surely it is acceptable for Suarez as it is acceptable in Uruguay. It's either acceptable for everyone or acceptable for no-one.

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 02:44PM

Des wrote: »

Why would Suarez, who isn't Evra's friend, clearly, decide to use a nickname for him that his friends use. That is not normal behaviour.

If I know a guy called John Smith, who works for a rival of a company I only joined in the last year or so, and at some industry event his colleagues from his office are all calling him "Chunky" or something, I don't start calling him "Chunky" also, he'd be well within his rights to get offended tbh. I call him John, unless and until he introduces himself to me as "Chunky".

I don't believe this is what has happened in this case, but just to humour you......if in the situation you've given above they called John Smith, "******" & that was his nickname in work......and you joined in & called him "******"-your crime would be being overfriendly in calling him something his friends do when in reality you guys would not have that close a relationship.

If John Smith then went to your employers or the media (if you were in a high powered/high profile job) & said you racially abused him and it was unacceptable in 2011.....do you not think John Smith would be a ****ing idiot and talking ****?!

niallo27 · 08-11-2011 02:57PM

Des wrote: »

Why would Suarez, who isn't Evra's friend, clearly, decide to use a nickname for him that his friends use. That is not normal behaviour.

If I know a guy called John Smith, who works for a rival of a company I only joined in the last year or so, and at some industry event his colleagues from his office are all calling him "Chunky" or something, I don't start calling him "Chunky" also, he'd be well within his rights to get offended tbh. I call him John, unless and until he introduces himself to me as "Chunky".

If john smith was a lieing little rat, who was in your face all during the conference trying to provoke you, there would probaly be no harm in saying "**** off chunky"

_blank_ · 08-11-2011 02:58PM

niallo27 wrote: »

If john smith was a lieing little rat, who was in your face all during the conference trying to provoke you, there would probaly be no harm in saying "**** off chunky"

yes, but is there harm in saying "Fúck off negro"? I think there is.

Fuhrer · 08-11-2011 03:20PM

Blackhorse Slim wrote: »

If, as seems to be the case, Suarez heard a nickname Evra is called by team-mates, which Evra is presumably ok with, and called him by the same nickname, not understanding all the connotations such a name may have in a language he is not fully fluent in - is that racism?

Yeah, thats only if you believe Suarez saying that his teammates call Evra by whatever funny little thing he said to him.

08-11-2011 03:46PM

amiable wrote: »

On the poster that just wants Liverpool to have Suarez playing no matter what, that's not how Liverpool got to the summit.

Racism is disgusting. Simple as that. No excuse

It don't in anyway condone people using racist terms of abuse towards other people but neither do I feel so strongly about the subject that I would like to see our best player on the sidelines over it if it were true, which it isn't.

As I said before I really think things are gone too far though, some comments that are being called racist nowadays should be fair game imo as they are not really racist at all. (Not referring to the word claimed to have been used in the Evra incident just to be clear thats obviously racist)

JimsAlterEgo · 08-11-2011 03:50PM

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

It don't in anyway condone people using racist terms of abuse towards other people but neither do I feel so strongly about the subject that I would like to see our best player on the sidelines over it if it were true, which it isn't.

As I said before I really think things are gone too far though, some comments that are being called racist nowadays should be fair game imo.

I hope to fVck you are on thw wind up and don't believe this

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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