Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

JimsAlterEgo

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

I hope to fVck you are on thw wind up and don't believe this

Dont believe what exactly?

Le King

Le King wrote: »

So Suarez and Terry are racists. The list goes on and on.

One moves his mouth, the other doesn't.

JimsAlterEgo

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

Dont believe what exactly?

that racism in any context is ok

JimsAlterEgo

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

that racism in any context is ok

But a lot of whats called racism nowadays isnt and most if not all people I have the conversion with completely agree. I will again use the Steve Williams comment as an example, that's simply not racism no matter what way you look at it imo.

I will give you an example of what I would consider racism. I sort of know a lad, he is married to a friend of a friend. He's Irish but lives in London. Ive only been in his company a handfull of times but have more than once heard what he would do if his daughter ever comes home introducing someone who isnt a white Caucasian. Basically they would be leaving in an ambulance or a box and he is 100% serious.
He would be saying this openly in pubs in London btw.

niallo27

Is Suarez not getting any credit for coming out and saying there was a misunderstanding, when he could have left evra burn as there was no evidence, are these the actions of a racist.

Paul Tergat

niallo27 wrote: »

Is Suarez not getting any credit for coming out and saying there was a misunderstanding, when he could have left evra burn as there was no evidence, are these the actions of a racist.

you are looking at this with so much bias its not even funny.

parker kent

niallo27 wrote: »

Is Suarez not getting any credit for coming out and saying there was a misunderstanding, when he could have left evra burn as there was no evidence, are these the actions of a racist.

AFAIK they have all been instructed to say nothing by the FA, so we don't necessarily know what evidence there actually is. So people may be premature in saying that there is no evidence.

Pro. F

Rashad Wrong History wrote: »

But a lot of whats called racism nowadays isnt and most if not all people I have the conversion with completely agree. I will again use the Steve Williams comment as an example, that's simply not racism no matter what way you look at it imo.

Your opinion is just ill thought out. Referring to a person's skin colour in an insult clearly implies that you think their skin colour is an issue. No one would say ''that human bastard!'' Because being human isn't an issue to any other human being. Trying to insult someone by using ''black bastard'' or any other insult like that clearly shows that you think the skin colour is an issue. It is the definition of a racial slur. Whether it is, or is not, as bad as any other racial slur is completely irrelevant. They are all unacceptable.

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

It's odd that in an era when each player is followed by camera during a game there is no capture of Suarez being abusive, yet John Terry utters one word and it's caught and shown over and over.

Do you know for a fact that there was a camera with a clear view of Suarez's face every time he was talking to Evra during the game? Do you know for a fact that a _complete_ transcription of all that Suarez said to Evra has been made by lip readers? Do you know for a fact how reliable lip reading generally is in these types of scenarios?

I'm not saying I have the answers, I don't. And because I don't I'm not making any assumptions. There are a lot of people making a lot of, imo unreasonable, assumptions about camera coverage and effectiveness of lip reading in this thread.

irelandrover wrote: »

This is the problem in my opinion. If a black person can call another black person a n****r without punishment how can you punish a white person? If you say it is accepted for a black person to say it, then surely it is acceptable for Suarez as it is acceptable in Uruguay. It's either acceptable for everyone or acceptable for no-one.

I'm sure it is not acceptable for anybody, no matter what skin colour, to use the word when under the jurisdiction of the FA. If a black guy was heard to use the N word when in the footballing public eye there would be uproar. And the uproar would be coming from black people as much as white.

parker kent

parker kent wrote: »

AFAIK they have all been instructed to say nothing by the FA, so we don't necessarily know what evidence there actually is. So people may be premature in saying that there is no evidence.

If there was evidence it would have been all over skysports news within hours of the game. So its safe to say there is no evidence.

Mr Alan

parker kent wrote: »

So people may be premature in saying that there is no evidence.

Do you agree if there is no evidence, despite Evra's protestations that it was brazen & frequent, serious questions need to be posed to Evra?

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

Do you agree if there is no evidence, despite Evra's protestations that it was brazen & frequent, serious questions need to be posed to Evra?

Do you agree that it would be quite possible that Evra could be telling the truth about what Suarez said even if there is no evidence of it on camera? Is it not enough that Evra has left himself wide open to a defamation claim like Kess has pointed out? That seems to me like a big deterrent for possible future frivolous claims from any footballers.

Mr Alan

Pro. F wrote: »

Do you agree that it would be quite possible that Evra could be telling the truth about what Suarez said even if there is no evidence of it on camera?

No. I think if it was as brazen & frequent as Evra has said, it would be picked up by the camera. The repeated utterance of the same word more than 10 times would stand out like a sore thumb. I also think if it was as he claims, people in the penalty box would have heard the same.

So no, I think if there is no evidence either on camera or in the form of witnesses backing up what Evra has said, then Evra's version of events are certainly a fabrication.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

No. I think if it was as brazen & frequent as Evra has said, it would be picked up by the camera. The repeated utterance of the same word more than 10 times would stand out like a sore thumb. I also think if it was as he claims, people in the penalty box would have heard the same.

So no, I think if there is no evidence either on camera or in the form of witnesses backing up what Evra has said, then Evra's version of events are certainly a fabrication.

lol you don't believe its quite possible? What!!!

Pro. F wrote: »

Do you agree that it would be quite possible that Evra could be telling the truth about what Suarez said even if there is no evidence of it on camera?

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

No. I think if it was as brazen & frequent as Evra has said, it would be picked up by the camera. The repeated utterance of the same word more than 10 times would stand out like a sore thumb.

I think your idea that you know for certain that Suarez's face was on camera for every moment of the incident and that you know for certain that the lip readers were able to interprete clearly everything he said is ridiculous. How much do you really know about lip reading and camera coverage and how much are assuming?

Mr Alan wrote: »

I also think if it was as he claims, people in the penalty box would have heard the same.

So no, I think if there is no evidence either on camera or in the form of witnesses backing up what Evra has said, then Evra's version of events are certainly a fabrication.

Has it been established that it definitely happened in the box? I'm not disputing it, I just want to be clear.

Whether other people would definitely be able to hear or not is up for debate for me. The crowd is very loud and I don't see any reason why we should think that Suarez was.

niallo27

Paul Tergat wrote: »

you are looking at this with so much bias its not even funny.

Of course i'm biased yes, but why did suarez come out and make these comments when he could have said nothing as there is no evidence and there never will be.

SlickRic

while Evra, IMO, can never definitively be proven as a liar...

...can those defending him not at least admit that it's pretty fúcking peculiar that no video evidence has come up if Evra claimed it was 10 times?

JT said it once, and it was clear as day to the cameras.

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

lol you don't believe its quite possible? What!!!

Nope.

If it were a single utterence. Or a sly under the breath remark we were talking about. Then I would think it possible.

It's not however, we're talking about prolonged brazen abuse.

Pro. F wrote: »

I think your idea that you know for certain that Suarez's face was on camera for every moment of the incident and that you know for certain that the lip readers were able to interprete clearly everything he said is ridiculous.

I think there would have been camera all over Suarez during the game full stop, as he is Liverpools main attacking threat. If it was during the corner, there would have been cameras all pointed at the goal mouth as thats where the action was. And after the lads started having a go at eachother, the cameras would have been all over the pair awaiting a potential off the ball incident.

I think its fair to assume any substantial argument would have been caught on camera.

Pro. F wrote:

How much do you really know about lip reading and camera coverage and how much are assuming?

Not a lot. But I know that for other racial incidents in the past that were a lot slyer than this alleged incident-there was always footage available & despite not maybe being 100% on what was said, it certainly gave an idea of what was said.

Despite this incident being fiercer & more extreme than other "lesser" incidents. There doesn't appear to be even an ounce of footage available of it. Its very strange.

Pro. F wrote:

Has it been established that it definitely happened in the box? I'm not disputing it, I just want to be clear.

No-not as far as I'm aware. But Suarez plays primarily from the left. And that few minutes when they were tangling was imo when "it" happened-its the only time they really came together during the game. There wouldn't really have been a sufficient window for it to happen at anytime other than that.

Pro. F wrote:

Whether other people would definitely be able to hear or not is up for debate for me. The crowd is very loud and I don't see any reason why we should think that Suarez was.

If he could hear it, logically other people around would have been able to hear it.

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

I think there would have been camera all over Suarez during the game full stop, as he is Liverpools main attacking threat. If it was during the corner, there would have been cameras all pointed at the goal mouth as thats where the action was. And after the lads started having a go at eachother, the cameras would have been all over the pair awaiting a potential off the ball incident.

I think its fair to assume any substantial argument would have been caught on camera.

Suarez has admitted saying something to Evra, and was 'surprised by his reaction'.

Why has no video evidence of what he said to him in this instance surfaced yet?


But there would have been a camera on Suarez all game....oh

niallo27

Pro. F wrote: »

I think your idea that you know for certain that Suarez's face was on camera for every moment of the incident and that you know for certain that the lip readers were able to interprete clearly everything he said is ridiculous. How much do you really know about lip reading and camera coverage and how much are assuming?



Has it been established that it definitely happened in the box? I'm not disputing it, I just want to be clear.

Whether other people would definitely be able to hear or not is up for debate for me. The crowd is very loud and I don't see any reason why we should think that Suarez was.

Listen as someone pointed out earlier John terry made one comment and it was all over the internet within an hour, Suarez says something ten times in a much lower profile game and there is no sign of anything a month later.

Blatter

Oh and another thing.

How does Luis Suarez know, if indeed he does, what Manchester United players call Patrice Evra?

niallo27

Blatter wrote: »

Oh and another thing.

How does Luis Suarez know, if indeed he does, what Manchester United players call Patrice Evra?

He probaly heard them during the game.

I can see it coming to absolute nothing.

I'd put my house on it.

Ganymede Glow

does anyone know what United players call Patrice Evra by any chance?

Chucky the tree

Blatter wrote: »

Suarez has admitted saying something to Evra, and was 'surprised by his reaction'.

Why has no video evidence of what he said to him in this instance surfaced yet?


But there would have been a camera on Suarez all game....oh

Probably because no one cared if Suarez called his a c*nt or something similar.

niallo27

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

does anyone know what United players call Patrice Evra by any chance?

The black utd players or the white ones.

pistolpetes11

Blatter wrote: »

It originated as a claim of social power. The word 'n*****' is now their word and not say John Terry's.

I personally don't agree with them using it at all, but the context is completely different to when a white person calls a black person a n*****.

Im just having a read through the thread and felt this rubbish need to be pulled up .

Firstly John Terry did not use the word N*****, dont see why you would need bring him into it.

When referring to a race as "them" or "their" are you not belittling the race ?

I believe what this situation now needs is mediation between the two players cause at this stage its a case of he said , I said, and its just going around in circles and it seems there is not strong evidence to back up either party.

The best thing that could come out of it is the two players settle the "misunderstanding" and go on to front the PR campaign for Kick it Out for the next few months.

This could go for months at this stage and only provide more of a backdrop of hatred between the two sets of fans.

If the FA were going to act it needed to be done swiftly.

Ganymede Glow

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

does anyone know what United players call Patrice Evra by any chance?

Shíte this season

niallo27

rarnes1 wrote: »

Shíte this season

Well i laughed

Ganymede Glow

rarnes1 wrote: »

Shíte this season

Blatter

niallo27 wrote: »

He probaly heard them during the game.

I would find it bizarre that United players would call Evra something during a game, and then Luis Suarez says the exact same thing, in the same context, and he is accused of racism.

We really need to find out what Suarez is claiming he said, and what Evra is claiming was said.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Probably because no one cared if Suarez called his a c*nt or something similar.

He said he called him something ''even his Manchester teammates call him''

I doubt that's anything outright abusive like that.

And I would say, given the media coverage this has gotten, that ANY video evidence showing something said between the two players, would have been released. (if they were allowed release it during the investigation of course)

The incident Suarez is talking about either wasn't caught on camera at all, or is caught on camera but hasn't been released to the public pending the investigation.