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Junior Cert to be abolished

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  • 03-11-2011 12:15pm
    #1
    Mr. Manager
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    According to RTE -
    Minister for Education Ruairi Quinn has approved plans to abolish the Junior Certificate and replaced it with a radical new programme.
    The new system, which will be introduced in schools from 2014, will see a much greater emphasis on continuous assessment.
    Children who are now in fourth class in primary school will be the first to experience the new programme, which will also allow students gain marks for activities such as debating or drama.
    Final exams will no longer be the main focus as 40% of all subject marks will be awarded on the basis of continuous assessment over two years.
    Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club.
    The plans were published just over a month ago by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment.
    However, the NCCA has warned that real transformation will not happen unless teachers get additional training and schools the resources they will need to implement change.

    Link - http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1103/juniorcert.html

    Thoughts?

    IMO, it's about bloody time. The thing was a hyped up useless exam. Should have been concentrating on the bigger picture.


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Comments

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    #2
    karaokeman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    One word.... yay:D


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    #3
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...


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    #4
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    This is bullsh!t -

    What am I meant to do junior cert results night now?


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    #5
    danniemcq
    Registered Users Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    Thr drink industry will fight this


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    #6
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    The junior cert is an absolute waste of time.


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    #7
    Zhavey
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Zhavey


    Won't make much of a difference except that it will be more of a stranger territory entering Senior cycle. Junior Cert really is nothing.


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    #8
    Dotrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Dotrel


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    Well then it should fit right in with pretty much everything else that goes on in these 'centres of learning' (aka state funded child minding services).

    I remember our secondary school religion class consisted of a Christian Brother who made each lad in the class read a verse from the New Testament in turn until the bell for end of class went. We did this 2-3 times a week for 40 minutes for 2 years until the old fúcker finally dropped dead. If that isn't deliberate crowd control then I don't know what is.

    The other subjects weren't much more productive or educational either.


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    #9
    k4kate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 648 ✭✭✭k4kate


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    Very educational actually, helping to turn out well rounded people.


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    #10
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...


    Reading books is educational.

    And as for musicals, there's a lot of 'life lessons' you can pick up.

    West Side Story - gang culture is ultimately dangerous.
    Phantom of the Opera - don't judge people on their looks.
    Fiddler on the Roof - Russian Jews aren't all miserable.
    Cats - Cats are dirty feckers who should never be kept as pets.
    Spiderman - Big budget musicals can be a financial and critical disaster.


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    #11
    phasers
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    unless the leaving cert is similarly altered then this is not only pointless, but could be detrimental to some students. Readjusting after 4th year is hard for some, imagine never having any structure in the first place?

    And participating in a book club? Is that real? That sounds like LCA 'getting marks for attendance' crap.


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    #12
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    If you seen the level of literacy skills some children have leaving primary school a book club is about the best thing they could have. Putting on a musical takes time, team work, skill and patience these are important qualities that should be encouraged at that age. The children that sit in front of books all day and don't take part in extra curricular activities are generally introverted and it is this sort of thing which will foster a much more inclusionary feeling in a school and help the children personally.


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    #13
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Dotrel wrote: »
    Well then it should fit right in with pretty much everything else that goes on in these 'centres of learning' (aka state funded child minding services).

    I remember our secondary school religion class consisted of a Christian Brother who made each lad in the class read a verse from the New Testament in turn until the bell for end of class went. We did this 2-3 times a week for 40 minutes for 2 years until the old fúcker finally dropped dead. If that isn't deliberate crowd control then I don't know what is.

    The other subjects weren't much more productive or educational either.

    Is this a fool proof method of killing a Christian Brother??...and can it be sped up?


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    #14
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,142 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Interesting idea of 'education' implied in many of the responses here.


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    #15
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    Actually I found being involved in shows in school infinitely more fulfilling than most of my classes. It was a lesson in hard graft and commitment.

    I don't remember there being a whole lot of stress regarding the JC- I studied mainly from Xmas onwards, although certainly never killed myself for it. Got 8 hons barely breaking a sweat.

    Should they not focus on the LC, where it actually affects people's futures?


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    #16
    Dotrel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Dotrel


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Is this a fool proof method of killing a Christian Brother??...and can it be sped up?

    It was our first kill so it was as much a happy coincidence as opposed to something we'd believed could be a fool proof solution.

    We were reading a fairly lethargic pace so it'd probably could be sped up to one year result if your heart was in the verse delivery.


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    #17
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    School plays and book clubs already exist, but why should you get extra points for getting involved with them?


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    #18
    Redlion
    Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Redlion


    Like a previous poster has said, it's useless unless they bring in the same system for the Leaving Cert. If the Leaving Cert followed suit, It'd be of some benefit, allowing students to become similar to the same style of grading as most universities/colleges in Ireland.


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    #19
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    I agree, but still better than the tripe within the junior cert.. Biggest waste of time and money.


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    #20
    MetalDog
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭MetalDog


    Junior Cert revised syllabus 2014:

    Q1: If 6 cans of Dutch Gold are €7, how many cans can you get for €7?

    Q2: What will be the sum total of Chantelle when she tells Deco that the baby is not his?

    Q3: Anto has bought half a kilo of coke for two grand. He wants to make 300% on the deal and still pay Mad Mark his 10% protection money. How much must he charge for a gram?

    Q4: How much extra child benefit will Amanda get if she has two more kids between now and when she turns 16?

    Q5: Which is better, Bav, Dutch or Bucky? Illustrate your answer by projectile vomiting in your dad's car.

    Q6: Amy's name is spelt "Amy" on her birth certificate, however she spells it "xxxAaimmeexxx". Calculate to the nearest decimal point, how much of a pretentious twat she is.

    Q7: Mark has recently turned Emo. Imagine you are him - write a LiveJournal entry on how miserable your life is and how you "cant wait to feel deaths cold embrace", or some sh!t like that


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    #21
    Caraville
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Caraville


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    Yeah they're educational alright but who do they expect is going to run these things? Is the department just assuming that teachers are going to do all these things after school? I know there are plenty on here who will say "sure ye're finished at 4, loads of spare time, blablabla" but honestly- I'm involved in helping out with the school musical and debating in my school and I have to say every so often my other work- corrections, preparing classes etc- suffers as a result and I get so swamped with work that I'm honestly considering stopping doing the extra-curricular stuff. Which makes me sad really, because I think it does benefit the students. But with the workload getting bigger every year, and these pointless "Croke Park Hours" that we have to do, I'm just getting a bit disheartened by it all...

    Besides, these things- musicals, book clubs, etc, take a good bit of money to run. A half arsed effort at a musical would cost a minimum of €10,000 between rights, set, orchestra, costumes, etc. I don't know where the hell that money is supposed to come from.

    And on top of all that, not once were any of us teachers, the ones who will have to carry out these changes they keep bringing in, consulted. Maybe a select group was, but I don't know any of these people anyway. I'm sure there's merit to some of the changes, but I dunno, I'm a young teacher and I find it hard to remain motivated at times. God only knows what the older teachers are thinking.


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    #22
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    It's a pity cynicism isn't an extra curricular activity.


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    #23
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Caraville wrote: »
    Yeah they're educational alright but who do they expect is going to run these things? Is the department just assuming that teachers are going to do all these things after school? I know there are plenty on here who will say "sure ye're finished at 4, loads of spare time, blablabla" but honestly- I'm involved in helping out with the school musical and debating in my school and I have to say every so often my other work- corrections, preparing classes etc- suffers as a result and I get so swamped with work that I'm honestly considering stopping doing the extra-curricular stuff. Which makes me sad really, because I think it does benefit the students. But with the workload getting bigger every year, and these pointless "Croke Park Hours" that we have to do, I'm just getting a bit disheartened by it all...

    Besides, these things- musicals, book clubs, etc, take a good bit of money to run. A half arsed effort at a musical would cost a minimum of €10,000 between rights, set, orchestra, costumes, etc. I don't know where the hell that money is supposed to come from.

    And on top of all that, not once were any of us teachers, the ones who will have to carry out these changes they keep bringing in, consulted. Maybe a select group was, but I don't know any of these people anyway. I'm sure there's merit to some of the changes, but I dunno, I'm a young teacher and I find it hard to remain motivated at times. God only knows what the older teachers are thinking.

    Have you permanent status yet? In my experience its the teachers who are on year long contracts that do all the extra curriculars so the principal keeps them on for another year instead of another colleague.


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    #24
    Fbjm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Fbjm


    The LCA has been doing this for years, and what people don't seem to realise is their program produces students every year who are far more capable for the 'real world', so to speak. They find it much easier to go into a working environment. However, if this is only brought in up to junior cert level and people who want to go straight from school into university are still forced to take the normal LC, then this is going to be detrimental to these students. I always thought the point of the junior cert was to prepare students for the leaving cert?


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    #25
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    The children that sit in front of books all day and don't take part in extra curricular activities are generally introverted and it is this sort of thing which will foster a much more inclusionary feeling in a school and help the children personally.
    Is there something inherently wrong with being introverted? Some of us never felt the need to dance, sing and act our way through school.


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    #26
    Fbjm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Fbjm


    Caraville wrote: »
    Yeah they're educational alright but who do they expect is going to run these things? Is the department just assuming that teachers are going to do all these things after school? I know there are plenty on here who will say "sure ye're finished at 4, loads of spare time, blablabla" but honestly- I'm involved in helping out with the school musical and debating in my school and I have to say every so often my other work- corrections, preparing classes etc- suffers as a result and I get so swamped with work that I'm honestly considering stopping doing the extra-curricular stuff. Which makes me sad really, because I think it does benefit the students. But with the workload getting bigger every year, and these pointless "Croke Park Hours" that we have to do, I'm just getting a bit disheartened by it all...

    Besides, these things- musicals, book clubs, etc, take a good bit of money to run. A half arsed effort at a musical would cost a minimum of €10,000 between rights, set, orchestra, costumes, etc. I don't know where the hell that money is supposed to come from.

    And on top of all that, not once were any of us teachers, the ones who will have to carry out these changes they keep bringing in, consulted. Maybe a select group was, but I don't know any of these people anyway. I'm sure there's merit to some of the changes, but I dunno, I'm a young teacher and I find it hard to remain motivated at times. God only knows what the older teachers are thinking.

    Are you teaching the same class the whole way up to leaving cert or something?


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    #27
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    smash wrote: »
    "Schools will also have the option of being able to award marks for activities currently regarded as extra curricular, such as putting on a school musical or participating in a book club."

    Hardly educational...

    Of course those activities are educational. This will help produce more rounded students instead of the rote learning automatons the current system produces.
    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Is there something inherently wrong with being introverted? Some of us never felt the need to dance, sing and act our way through school.
    I highly doubt they will force kids to sing or dance. They are just 2 examples given in the report. They also mention book clubs and debating. There is nothing wrong with being introverted, but this type of thing will boost an awful lot of kids. Plus it will give them a much more rounded education. JC results mean nothing in the long-term. Producing better educated people is more important than teaching someone how to regurgitate a text-book.


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    #28
    token56
    Registered Users Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭token56


    I like a lot of the ideas, continual assessment becoming a major part is definitely good I think. I'm not so sure about the extra credits thing for extra curricular activities. In principle there is nothing wrong with it and its probably a good idea, but I think trying to implement it in a cost effective way might be difficult, in terms of both schools having the facilities/equipment necessary and if these things start adding additional cost to parents. But overall I think the change is very welcome.


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    #29
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Is there something inherently wrong with being introverted? Some of us never felt the need to dance, sing and act our way through school.

    I am not just talking about musicals. Secondary education puts no emphasis on team work which is vital to university as well as life. Those who can take part in team work and study individually are much better well rounded individuals than those who only perform one or the other.


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    #30
    Columbia
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Columbia


    Sounds like a good idea.

    Next we need to start giving credit for sports, as we already do for music and art.


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    #31
    FlashD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 865 ✭✭✭FlashD


    smash wrote: »
    School plays and book clubs already exist, but why should you get extra points for getting involved with them?

    Why should a student not get extra points for getting involved?

    Some students are right lazy sods, they need a bit of incentive to get up off their arses rather than stuck out behind some bushes drinking and smoking their heads off.


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