Post-natal depression is a myth.

woodoo · 22-10-2011 06:38PM

stupidfishy wrote: »

Mr Kaneda, what you have just said...is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.

Exaggeration alert!

steddyeddy · 22-10-2011 06:40PM

Kaneda_ wrote: »

Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

Whatever the cause of post natal depression its still post natal depression. I mean some of the criteria involved in a diagnosis for post natal depression is depression following giving birth.

Post natal depression certainly is real anyway and I think its dangerous to suggest that people suffering from this illness are suffering as a result of a myth.

TheyKnowMyIP · 22-10-2011 06:41PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

psychiatry theres an acknowledgement of the biological basis of mental illnesses.

For which no reliable model has been constructed. I am genuinely not trying to rile people here, but there is currently no proven basis for the pill pushing biological model of depression. It's about as real as masturbation causing blindness. Not one shred of credible scientific proof for this theory. Gary Greenberg has a nice spin on it in his book "Manufacturing Depression". http://www.garygreenbergonline.com/

steddyeddy · 22-10-2011 06:45PM

Well if elation and pleasure are related to the chemistry of dopamine then it would makes sense to postulate that depression has a chemical foundation too.

pragmatic1 · 22-10-2011 06:46PM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

For which no reliable model has been constructed. I am genuinely not trying to rile people here, but there is currently no proven basis for the pill pushing biological model of depression. It's about as real as masturbation causing blindness. Not one shred of credible scientific proof for this theory. Gary Greenberg has a nice spin on it in his book "Manufacturing Depression". http://www.garygreenbergonline.com/

There has actually. People who suffer from clinical depression usually produce low levels of serotonin. SSRI's can be used to successfully treat this.

TheyKnowMyIP · 22-10-2011 06:51PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well if elation and pleasure are related to the chemistry of dopamine then it would makes sense to postulate that depression has a chemical foundation too.

Everything that happens inside in the brain is a chemical reaction. I am simply pointing out they don't have a solid idea of how the mind works at a neurological level. Make no mistake, the serotonin hypothesis was consigned to the dustbin years ago. The drug companies are taking people for a ride. Depression is not well understood. That isn't to say people don't suffer from it, but it's not understood well enough to be analysed and diagnosed in a lab like cancer and diabetes. Their understanding is severely limited at this point in time. This raises the question, would it be possible for the companies to "invent" diseases like the lead author of the DSM is suggesting? I think so.

Giselle · 22-10-2011 06:55PM

Kaneda_ wrote: »

Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

You display a stunning knowledge of the affect hormones have on the bodys chemistry and their effect on mood.

opinion guy · 22-10-2011 06:56PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Sigmund Freud and psychoanalysis? At least in psychiatry theres an acknowledgement of the biological basis of mental illnesses. Psychology isnt a science in any way.

AHAHAHA. You're kidding right ? Freud has been widely, widely discredited. CBT - about the only psych treatment with a solid evidence base behind it comes from psychology.

pragmatic1 wrote: »

There has actually. People who suffer from clinical depression usually produce low levels of serotonin. SSRI's can be used to successfully treat this.

This is a theory. An unproven one. And even if it was proven there is no evidence to say that low levels of serotonin causes depression, in fact it may well be that depression causes low levels of serotonin.

stovelid · 22-10-2011 06:56PM

My sister suffered terribly from it. I just rang her to tell her she was mistaken and it was due to her not wanting to be a mother. Even with a planned pregnancy.

She can't believe she didn't cop that before and asked me to convey her sincere thanks for blowing away the cobwebs of obfuscation and showing her the error of her ways.

Biggins · 22-10-2011 06:59PM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Everything that happens inside in the brain is a chemical reaction. I am simply pointing out they don't have a solid idea of how the mind works at a neurological level. Make no mistake, the serotonin hypothesis was consigned to the dustbin years ago. The drug companies are taking people for a ride. Depression is not well understood. That isn't to say people don't suffer from it, but it's not understood well enough to be analysed and diagnosed in a lab like cancer and diabetes. Their understanding is severely limited at this point in time.

...But their knowledge is ever improving.

There there is the realistic aspect that a life within a life, has been sucking/diverting many a much needed chemical/body nutrient/etc from its maternal parent while in pregnancy.
So all those taken fluids based upon said chemicals/nutrients and other material much needed from its only source, is going to have at time a detrimental effect to the parent, during and for some time after the actual child is born!

....That in time and reaction will and often does bring about side-effects that are unique, because of chemical imbalance that further creates a known categorised medical condition that is well witnessed and treated for.

Anyone that says all that is just a pure myth is a stupid idiot!

steddyeddy · 22-10-2011 07:06PM

Biggins wrote: »

...But their knowledge is ever improving.

There there is the realistic aspect that a life within a life, has been sucking/diverting many a much needed chemical from its maternal parent while in pregnancy.
So all those taken fluids based upon said chemicals/nutrients and other material much needed from its only source, is going to have at time a detrimental effect to the parent, during and for some time after the actual child is born!

....That in time and reaction will and often does bring about side-effects that are unique, because of chemical imbalance that further creates a known categorised medical condition that is well witnessed and treated for.

Anyone that says all that is just a pure myth is a stupid idiot!

Plus the fact people who are suffering from post partum depression must meet a set of criteria before they are diagnosed with it. People suffering from post partum depression have described the same set of symptoms again and again. Whatever the chemistry behind the mindset of a person suffering from post partum depression they are indeed suffering from a frequently observed set of symptoms.

Im not definate but as far as I know post natal depression is diagnosed by a major depressive episode with the specifier that it must happen within four weeks of delivery.

madmammy · 22-10-2011 07:07PM

really, postnatal depressions a myth, wish i had known
i was suffering with something i made up....thank you for showing me the errors in my thinking, now i just need a kick up the backside to get me out of this myth

unless you either have qualifications to back up your theory that somethings not true...i'll just conclude your a myth and therefore i'm going to ignore anything else you put up if thats fine with you.

TheyKnowMyIP · 22-10-2011 07:09PM

Biggins wrote: »

...But their knowledge is ever improving.

There there is the realistic aspect that a life within a life, has been sucking/diverting many a much needed chemical from its maternal parent while in pregnancy.
So all those taken fluids based upon said chemicals/nutrients and other material much needed from its only source, is going to have at time a detrimental effect to the parent, during and for some time after the actual child is born!

....That in time and reaction will and often does bring about side-effects that are unique, because of chemical imbalance that further creates a known categorised medical condition that is well witnessed and treated for.

Anyone that says all that is just a pure myth is a stupid idiot!

There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in the brain of depressed people. This has been proven Academically, so I will take these professionals word over mine. If you want the entire truth, read the following book, written by a neuroscientist. It will open your eyes to the reality of the situation. http://www.amazon.com/Blaming-Brain-Truth-Mental-Health/dp/0743237870/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319306894&sr=1-1

Depression is not the result of a serotonin deficiency!!!

BBDBB · 22-10-2011 07:12PM

Kaneda_ wrote: »

Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

I think you only missed the line "pull themselves together" and it would have been a perfect troll

Biggins · 22-10-2011 07:14PM

madmammy wrote: »

really, postnatal depressions a myth, wish i had known
i was suffering with something i made up....thank you for showing me the errors in my thinking, now i just need a kick up the backside to get me out of this myth

unless you either have qualifications to back up your theory that somethings not true...i'll just conclude your a myth and therefore i'm going to ignore anything else you put up if thats fine with you.

Thats my wife, just to be clear.

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in the brain of depressed people. This has been proven Academically, so I will take these professionals word over mine. If you want the entire truth, read the following book, written by a neuroscientist. It will open your eyes to the reality of the situation. http://www.amazon.com/Blaming-Brain-Truth-Mental-Health/dp/0743237870/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319306894&sr=1-1

Depression is not the result of a serotonin deficiancy!!!

As steadyeddy has right stated in my opinion:

...Whatever the chemistry behind the mindset of a person suffering from post partum depression they are indeed suffering from a frequently observed set of symptoms.

Of course we will get some trying to say that is all and only down to "serotonin deficiancy" - it holds as much total relevance as Kaneda's bollox that its all about "regret" too.

Absolute and utter uneducated bollox of an idea.

...And JUST to be further clear TheyKnowMyIP - I have lived with "the reality of the situation" - have you!

opinion guy · 22-10-2011 07:16PM

Kaneda_ if you are feeling depressed its probably all the heavy metals you are inhaling all day

Saila · 22-10-2011 07:17PM

its canada, C A N A D A.

TheyKnowMyIP · 22-10-2011 07:18PM

Biggins wrote: »

course we will get some trying to say that is all and only down to "serotonin deficiancy" - it holds as much total relevance as Kaneda's bollox that its all about "regret" too.

Absolute and utter uneducated bollox of an idea.

What are the drugs prescribed for then? A laugh? Let me make myself clear, I suspect Mental Illness is a neurological problem, not some bull**** "chemical imbalance" for which absolutely no proof exists. I am not making this up!

"No Judge, I didn't murder that guy on purpose, it was mah brain chemicals!" - An excuse to absolve one from their responsibility.

DEPRESSION IS 100% REAL. IT IS NOT CAUSED BY A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. IT IS MOSTLY THE RESULT OF LIVING IN A ****ED UP WORLD, AND POTENTIALLY HAVING A HIGHER THAN AVERAGE IQ. THE CAUSE IS UNKNOWN!

Biggins · 22-10-2011 07:23PM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

What are the drugs prescribed for then?

To treat a PARTICULAR type of medical disorder. Doh!

Kaneda's crap that its further all based around just "regret" shows further how fcuking much of an utter uneducated and living in could coo-coo land they are.

Anyone that thanked that schite ought to be ashamed of themselves!

I also note Kaneda hasn't further returned to defend his utter schite and/or show ANY proof - what a surprise!

One more for the "ignore" button.

Giselle · 22-10-2011 07:25PM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

What are the drugs prescribed for then? A laugh? Let me make myself clear, I suspect Mental Illness is a neurological problem, not some bull**** "chemical imbalance" for which absolutely no proof exists. I am not making this up!

"No Judge, I didn't murder that guy on purpose, it was mah brain chemicals!" - An excuse to absolve one from their responsibility.

DEPRESSION IS 100% REAL. IT IS NOT CAUSED BY A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. IT IS MOSTLY THE RESULT OF LIVING IN A ****ED UP WORLD, AND POTENTIALLY HAVING A HIGHER THAN AVERAGE IQ. THE CAUSE IS UNKNOWN!

Have you suffered from depression? And you believe its because you have an especially high IQ?

Serious question.

geetar · 22-10-2011 07:26PM

why are we discussing the ramblings of a dentist.

OP, your opinions are just an unqualified made up mess.

youre complaining that we name different forms of depression?

PND is a specific depression, that is quite common. it only comes about after one specific event, and therefore is worthy of its own name.

your point is absolute nonsense.

Gee Bag · 22-10-2011 07:35PM

Kaneda_ wrote: »

A dentist.

I might be going out on a limb here, but I thought dentists only worked with teeth.

Therefore, I presume you would not have much more training in the intricacies of matters relating to pregnancy than us lesser mortals

Wibbs · 22-10-2011 07:37PM

I disagree 100% with the OP's ballsology, indeed I personally would consider it among the "safest" diagnosis of mental illness in the spectrum out there. It has a very consistent pattern, literally "textbook", where others can be more vague. PND is not a myth. I don't care the whys of it medically, but it most certainly exists and has been reported as a specific condition for millennia. Given the overwhelming drive i humans to reproduce and bond with said offspring, something so opposite to that is clearly a problem with a real medical basis.

pragmatic1 wrote: »

There has actually. People who suffer from clinical depression usually produce low levels of serotonin. SSRI's can be used to successfully treat this.

On this score I'd have to agree with TheyKnowMyIP. Numero uno, did you know they can't measure serotonin levels in a living brain(they can measure byproducts of it's breakdown in the body, but these byproducts can be affected by other processes)? Numero dos, women have lower serotonin levels than men on average. Does this mean women are depressed? Nope. Forget gender, some have lower levels naturally and show no clinical signs, while others have high levels and are depressed. Numeros tres, for low to mid level depression placebo work as well as SSRI's. Placebo and exercise works better again. SSRI's do work for more intractable cases, so its not as some hippies suggest they don't work at all, but there's a lot more going on. The serotonin hypothesis is a shaky and simplistic enough one.

opinion guy · 22-10-2011 07:38PM

OP is not a dentist.
Well maybe a Troll dentist, but not a human dentist. Trolls have crappy teeth

Wibbs · 22-10-2011 07:44PM

Giselle wrote: »

Have you suffered from depression? And you believe its because you have an especially high IQ?

Serious question.

I do recall reading it's more likely in higher IQ folks G. Doesn't mean high IQ=depression or low IQ means one is safe from it's clutches. In any event I really doubt it has just one cause. "Depression" from my reading of it over the years is a label like "cancer". It has many causes, many different presentations and many different severities and outcomes and just like I doubt we'll ever find a catchall cure for cancer, we'll not find a catchall cure for depression either. It's a group of illnesses. Which makes both conditions/illnesses a right bastard to treat I'd imagine. That said I reckon, just like the different cancers, we will find treatments and "cures" for most if not all of them in time.

irishgirl19 · 22-10-2011 07:47PM

The OPs post infuriates me.He is obviously a man who never had to give birth.
of course,plenty of women get pregnant by accident and have a hard time accepting it but baby blue and PND are completely different.
OP do you know that there is a physical hormonal change after giving birth.

Somebody in my family got PND after they're third child.She had a very happy mariage and her and her husband PLANNED the baby.

It has nothing to do with regretting the decesion to have a baby.

I have seen a woman so ill but at the same time absolutely desperate to recover so she could take care of her baby and her children because she loved them so much.

You have no idea what your talking about you ****ing moron.

Giselle · 22-10-2011 07:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I do recall reading it's more likely in higher IQ folks G. Doesn't mean high IQ=depression or low IQ means one is safe from it's clutches. In any event I really doubt it has just one cause. "Depression" from my reading of it over the years is a label like "cancer". It has many causes, many different presentations and many different severities and outcomes and just like I doubt we'll ever find a catchall cure for cancer, we'll not find a catchall cure for depression either. It's a group of illnesses. Which makes both conditions/illnesses a right bastard to treat I'd imagine. That said I reckon, just like the different cancers, we will find treatments and "cures" for most if not all of them in time.

I appreciate you replying, but I'm more interested as to if he believes any depression he may have had is related to his IQ.

kelle · 22-10-2011 07:58PM

irishgirl19 wrote: »

The OPs post infuriates me.He is obviously a man who never had to give birth.
of course,plenty of women get pregnant by accident and have a hard time accepting it but baby blue and PND are completely different.
OP do you know that there is a physical hormonal change after giving birth.

Somebody in my family got PND after they're third child.She had a very happy mariage and her and her husband PLANNED the baby.

It has nothing to do with regretting the decesion to have a baby.

I have seen a woman so ill but at the same time absolutely desperate to recover so she could take care of her baby and her children because she loved them so much.

You have no idea what your talking about you ****ing moron.

Well said, Irishgirl. The bit in bold also refers to the author of the manual (and the poster) referred to in the quotes below, which I won't be rushing out to buy!

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

The entire field of Psychiatry is in severe disarray already. http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/ff_dsmv/

“there is no definition of a mental disorder. It’s bull****. I mean, you just can’t define it.” - Allen Frances, lead author of the DSM

If Psychiatry wants to maintain any credability, it should merge with a real science, like Neurology.

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

How to you account for the lead author of that diagnostic criteria basically saying it's fake? I mean this guy literally wrote the book on mental illness, yet he is denouncing it as nonsense. Who to believe?

Cancer is a tangible disease pathogen. Post Natal Depression is about as descriptive as suffering from "the clap"

"TheyKnowMyIP" - yes, I'd say it's the same as the OP's

cesc77 · 22-10-2011 08:17PM

Frowzy wrote: »

When you've shoved a watermelon out your arse, fed it with your tits, not had a nights sleep in weeks and consider black sh1t normal while keeping a house and trying to explain to your husband why you're not quite ready to satisfy his needs, come back and talk to me.

Trolling is one thing, but a sexist arrogant one deserves a ban!

AH response:buckfast sux:pac:

Reasonable response:Im completely unqualified to comment(doesnt stop some:D)but the OP appears to be stirring the pot and jerking off to having created a thread on a subject which is highly emotive and life controlling for many families.

Ah,bollix....unqualified is unqualified.

kowloon · 22-10-2011 08:43PM

I once had an episode of post-dental depresssion. True fact.

Post-natal depression is a myth.

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