Class Rep training junket?

LeixlipRed · 13-10-2011 08:53PM

SWOT wrote: »

Better to leave it out imo and stick to the point. Topic is about the Class reps, not endearing personalities

I wasn't talking about their personalities. I meant the points they delivered were poor, same drivel repeated over and over. The only people who lowered it to a personal level were them two.

13-10-2011 09:46PM

I would love to know why exactly the SU can blow this cash, yet also slash the capitation that Clubs and Socs like Archery and Games.
I suppose, these aren't as essential :rolleyes:

lordgoat · 13-10-2011 10:04PM

King Mob wrote: »

I would love to know why exactly the SU can blow this cash, yet also slash the capitation that Clubs and Socs like Archery and Games.
I suppose, these aren't as essential :rolleyes:

Ah yes another well informed opinion in here.

Tesco Massacre · 13-10-2011 10:14PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Well for anyone who attended today and seen the debate between me and Rob and other students it's pretty clear they won't back down. It's a pity someone didn't video it because I think both Rob and Naoise would come out of it looking pretty badly.

Could you give us the gist of what was said?

mickstupp wrote: »

I think it's brilliant. And I'd be delighted if my 93 was going towards this.

Agreed.

LeixlipRed · 13-10-2011 10:22PM

Other boards users were there so maybe someone else will give an account. I'm still angry about it.

Tesco Massacre · 13-10-2011 10:37PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Other boards users were there so maybe someone else will give an account. I'm still angry about it.

Sorry to hear that.

So come on, people, what was said?

Spare no detail!

13-10-2011 10:43PM

lordgoat wrote: »

Ah yes another well informed opinion in here.

So then inform me.
Why cut the capitation of clubs and socs?
Because they need to tighten their belts and cut down on spending?

So therefore blowing 5 grand for no defensible reason is clearly more essential than the clubs and socs.

LeixlipRed · 13-10-2011 10:49PM

Are there people who still haven't added that chap to their ignore list? My life is so much easier now

Kiwi_knock · 13-10-2011 11:04PM

You can argue, quite justifiably, that Clubs and Societies will have a far greater impact on a student's life on campus than a Class Rep so any cuts to Clubs and Soc's capitations in favour of the class rep system is completely the wrong move in my opinion.

lordgoat · 13-10-2011 11:05PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Are there people who still haven't added that chap to their ignore list? My life is so much easier now

Ah yes he disagrees with me so i'll ignore him. Pathetic really. As ever when someone points out something you don't like you ignore it.

In this thread alone, you've ignored me on points i made.

When pointed out that Student names and numbers was incorrect you left the link online as it suited you purpose.

And when Kinski pointed out the fact you're using the proposed UGM as another reason why the trip should be cancelled, even though the constitution prevents a meeting being called at such short notice. You ignored that too.

And my our personal favourite much akin to Dana last night you allude to something that happened but then refuse to comment on it.

Oh hang on, need a smiley to convey my thoughts on a cromulent level. :eek:

Also for whoever asked for enlightenment re capitation:
You picked two specific clubs and were annoyed that their capitation was cut. Reasons for cutting capitation has nothing to to do with class rep training.

It amazing what people try to use to form an opinion.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 13-10-2011 11:18PM

lordgoat wrote: »

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Are there people who still haven't added that chap to their ignore list? My life is so much easier now

Ah yes he disagrees with me so i'll ignore him. Pathetic really. As ever when someone points out something you don't like you ignore it.

In this thread alone, you've ignored me on points i made.

When pointed out that Student names and numbers was incorrect you left the link online as it suited you purpose.

And when Kinski pointed out the fact you're using the proposed UGM as another reason why the trip should be cancelled, even though the constitution prevents a meeting being called at such short notice. You ignored that too.

And my our personal favourite much akin to Dana last night you allude to something that happened but then refuse to comment on it.

Oh hang on, need a smiley to convey my thoughts on a cromulent level. :eek:

Also for whoever asked for enlightenment re capitation:
You picked two specific clubs and were annoyed that their capitation was cut. Reasons for cutting capitation has nothing to to do with class rep training.

It amazing what people try to use to form an opinion.

Do you even go to Maynooth or are you just out to argue?
Stop being so condescending to people, stop trying to find the smallest argument and maybe try appreciate that there is more than one side and opinion to the events going on. Please

LeixlipRed · 13-10-2011 11:20PM

I don't ignore you because you disagree with me. I ignore you because you're just a complete and utter....hi ho silver lining...

13-10-2011 11:21PM

lordgoat wrote: »

Also for whoever asked for enlightenment re capitation:
You picked two specific clubs and were annoyed that their capitation was cut. Reasons for cutting capitation has nothing to to do with class rep training.

It amazing what people try to use to form an opinion.

But why cut capitation before you cut something that is totally frivolous and pointless?

I couldn't tell you who any of my class reps were during my time in Maynooth, but knew plenty of people in soc committees.

But the SU clearly thinks that this pointless junket is more important than clubs and socs.
I would love to see some one try to justify this.

LeixlipRed · 13-10-2011 11:24PM

Rob made it clear today that this junket was more important than the welfare fund too. Hasn't been set up yet apparently. But time for junkets to be arranged

itzme · 13-10-2011 11:26PM

Can I ask what is the cut in capitation for clubs and soc is? Not for a specific club but the actual budget change since last year.

lordgoat · 13-10-2011 11:37PM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Do you even go to Maynooth or are you just out to argue?
Stop being so condescending to people, stop trying to find the smallest argument and maybe try appreciate that there is more than one side and opinion to the events going on. Please

Amazingly i can see that there are both sides. Unlike the vast majority of people in here. I can see why training can be held on or off campus. I also have the ability to debate my point. While you may see that as arguing, fair enough, i see it a reasoned debate. Where i back up every point i make without ignoring anyone.

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I don't ignore you because you disagree with me. I ignore you because you're just a complete and utter....hi ho silver lining...

Ah yes, great answer. So you ignore people you don't like. Well done.

King Mob wrote: »

But why cut capitation before you cut something that is totally frivolous and pointless?

I couldn't tell you who any of my class reps were during my time in Maynooth, but knew plenty of people in soc committees.

But the SU clearly thinks that this pointless junket is more important than clubs and socs.
I would love to see some one try to justify this.

For this^. See the post below.

itzme wrote: »

Can I ask what is the cut in capitation for clubs and soc is? Not for a specific club but the actual budget change since last year.

As this dude alludes to. If you don't know what the cut was across the board, it makes no sense to apply them to this argument. Also it's your opinion that class rep training is frivolous. Some people not involved in clubs or socs might deem them getting money as frivolous.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 13-10-2011 11:41PM

lordgoat wrote: »

Amazingly i can see that there are both sides. Unlike the vast majority of people in here. I can see why training can be held on or off campus. I also have the ability to debate my point. While you may see that as arguing, fair enough, i see it a reasoned debate. Where i back up every point i make without ignoring anyone.

That's not true. I have seen you ignore posts.
You have also just repeated the same thing again and again while adding in a condescending comment or two instead of actually getting into a proper debate while others explained their opinions and gave various reasons.
Everyone can see both sides as openly expressed. All understood the reasoning for training, just not the reason for the extra cost (and no, you never gave a proper explanation for that)

lordgoat · 13-10-2011 11:59PM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

That's not true. I have seen you ignore posts.
You have also just repeated the same thing again and again while adding in a condescending comment or two instead of actually getting into a proper debate while others explained their opinions and gave various reasons.
Everyone can see both sides as openly expressed. All understood the reasoning for training, just not the reason for the extra cost (and no, you never gave a proper explanation for that)

Point out a post i've ignored and if i have i'll respond to it.

A reason for the training as i've already told you many times before could be the numerous benefits for off site training. If you don't know what they are i've pointed out you can look them up. Alas I don't have time to spoon feed you. (apologies if my condescending tone upsets you. )

You say i repeat the same thing over and over again, i could say the same about the people i argue/debate with on here.

Also I find your comments ironic in the extreme when you say i don't debate. Where i all i can see is your sum contribution in this thread is to thank posts rather than enter in a debate.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 14-10-2011 12:05AM

lordgoat wrote: »

Point out a post i've ignored and if i have i'll respond to it.

I'll do this at some other stage. I don't have the time tonight. Or the patience.

lordgoat wrote: »

A reason for the training as i've already told you many times before could be the numerous benefits for off site training. If you don't know what they are i've pointed out you can look them up. Alas I don't have time to spoon feed you. (apologies if my condescending tone upsets you. )

You said the same "benefits" again and again and ignored anyone who tried to argue that those benefits could be made in other ways/work differently in this situation/etc. You refused any criticism of your "benefits"

You gave us a few benefits and then you just told us to google them. Where does that get you? It makes you look like an idiot. Not us

lordgoat wrote: »

Also I find your comments ironic in the extreme when you say i don't debate. Where i all i can see is your sum contribution in this thread is to thank posts rather than enter in a debate.

I prefer to thank rather than repeat what someone else has said just for the sake of it. Why repost if thanking will show that I agree anyway?

I made my points where and when needed.

And now I have a huge headache and am going to bed. Just in case you think that I will be ignoring you tonight...

I note that you ignored my question by the way...

14-10-2011 12:07AM

lordgoat wrote: »

Point out a post i've ignored and if i have i'll respond to it.

A reason for the training as i've already told you many times before could be the numerous benefits for off site training. If you don't know what they are i've pointed out you can look them up. Alas I don't have time to spoon feed you. (apologies if my condescending tone upsets you. )

You say i repeat the same thing over and over again, i could say the same about the people i argue/debate with on here.

Also I find your comments ironic in the extreme when you say i don't debate. Where i all i can see is your sum contribution in this thread is to thank posts rather than enter in a debate.

I'm assuming that this is the post you're referring to, but it doesn't actually address my point, even if the "reasons" you gave previously held any water.

Please explain why training class reps in an expensive way is more important than the clubs and socs?

lordgoat · 14-10-2011 12:24AM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

That's not true. I have seen you ignore posts.
You have also just repeated the same thing again and again while adding in a condescending comment or two instead of actually getting into a proper debate while others explained their opinions and gave various reasons.
Everyone can see both sides as openly expressed. All understood the reasoning for training, just not the reason for the extra cost (and no, you never gave a proper explanation for that)

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

I'll do this at some other stage. I don't have the time tonight. Or the patience.

You said the same "benefits" again and again and ignored anyone who tried to argue that those benefits could be made in other ways/work differently in this situation/etc. You refused any criticism of your "benefits"

You gave us a few benefits and then you just told us to google them. Where does that get you? It makes you look like an idiot. Not us

I prefer to thank rather than repeat what someone else has said just for the sake of it. Why repost if thanking will show that I agree anyway?

I made my points where and when needed.

And now I have a huge headache and am going to bed. Just in case you think that I will be ignoring you tonight...

I note that you ignored my question by the way...

OK here's you're last post where you said i ignored your question. Is there a question in there?

Again point out where i've ignored people's points. You're talking crap. My initial point was i wanted to see the berakdown for the E5000 before making a decision on whether the training was warranted off site. But that i'd prefer it to be done on campus.

I was and still am capable of understanding that there is a benefit to training off site. Also if you don't know what the benefits of training someone off site then, there definitely is an idiot in this thread. And it ain't me.

Again in all these posts with me, i've backed up my stance, while all you've done is argue and try to muddy waters. TBH i kinda hope that headache prevails for a few days as i'm not sure i explain things in a way that i'll be able to get my point across to you.

King Mob wrote: »

I'm assuming that this is the post you're referring to, but it doesn't actually address my point, even if the "reasons" you gave previously held any water.

Please explain why training class reps in an expensive way is more important than the clubs and socs?

Well class reps provide a service to the members they represent in a academic manner. The main reason you're in college is your education, not clubs/socs (and don't twist my words here, i'm not saying they are mutually exclusive)

Your point, the way it was presented, was that 2 clubs had funding cut yet class reps were being trained. Now, to me these two stances are not related in any way. You never said if all clubs/socs had their funding cut, right across the board. Never said if these two clubs had a drop in number/etc which would have been reflected in a drop in capitation.

Also i'm pretty sure the SU matches X amount from the NUI in relation to capitation rather than the SU just shoveling money towards clubs/socs. I am open to correction on where the cash comes from though.

banquo · 14-10-2011 12:44AM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Rob made it clear today that this junket was more important than the welfare fund too.

Wow. Just wow. There are no words.

lordgoat · 14-10-2011 12:50AM

banquo wrote: »

Wow. Just wow. There are no words.

there's plenty of words, i'm guessing they've just been twisted!

banquo · 14-10-2011 01:00AM

No reason to let facts get in the way of destroying our best hope of starting a new, better type of welfare fund - the first of its kind in the country - and establishing the only actually proven way of getting the information to people who need it. Which is what I spoke about today. Funny how that got turned into 'Rob made it clear he thinks the junket is more important than the welfare fund.'

If someone actually wants to talk to me in an in-depth, no soundbite, agenda and slander-free discussion I am more than happy to do so. But if you're going to jeapordise students' identities by publishing their student numbers without their permission, suggest that I stop doing casework so I can pay attention to you on the internet and then tell astounding, remarkable lies about me then don't be surprised if I don't get around to responding to you.

/exits thread

the_syco · 14-10-2011 01:11AM

Remembered about this when I saw it on the front page of this weeks Liffey Champion.

I wonder how much of the €5000 is for the bus, and how much to rent the hotel for the weekend, and how much of it goes for the rooms in said hotel?

Oh, and finally, if whoever picked the hotel knows someone in said hotel?

Norrdeth · 14-10-2011 01:27AM

Thread is sliding, must not close...

SWOT · 14-10-2011 01:42AM

Out of genuine interest, what alternatives would others suggest and solutions to the problem as whole, i.e The student class Rep system has being non existent since I have come to Maynooth. Did not even know we had one previously.

On Campus has clearly failed as a solution in the past I would assume? Once you get past the tittle, the job itself seems a bit ****ty. No pay, give up your own time and become a messenger. No thanks.

I can see some benefits of it off campus. Hotel looks so bad they probably will bond over that alone! Without an incentive, I wonder how many students would realistically attend the dam thing? Sure some may feck off afterwards, but after all this pressure on the event and the fact they have sat through the really bad bit by neccesity id assume the retention rate would be higher and the reps of better quality. Going to be a tangible pressure on class reps to do something now, or ill be taking the free hoody they get!

Personally I dislike the whole system and the money spent on it. I can represent myself fine thanks.

Could always send them all on a camping trip instead and have the notes drilled into them army boot camp style instead

banquo · 14-10-2011 01:48AM

SWOT wrote: »

Could always send them all on a camping trip instead and have the notes drilled into them army boot camp style instead

You're hired :pac:

/exits thread for realz

LeixlipRed · 14-10-2011 02:29AM

Nordetth, please don't close the thread, Ciaran is still adjudicating on whether we'll have a UGM. Once that's announced, assuming it is, it's part of this continuing issue.

And as for Rob posts, we had enough of your bluster, pettiness and pure distraction earlier, I'm not going to respond.

But I will say two things, Rob was extremely concerned about the names and signatures of students being revealed on the online petition earlier. FEE checked this out and it's not in breach of any current data protection legislation.

Secondly, just to show that that was just an attempt to derail the real argument here, I received an email in confidence this evening which contained the schedule for the training this weekend. In that email was the email address of every single class rep. Rob, perhaps you should contact Naoise and ask him why it's ok for him to publicise 100 student email addresses?

When you get good at this moral highground rubbish I'll stop picking holes in what you do. Goodnight.

14-10-2011 02:55AM

lordgoat wrote: »

Well class reps provide a service to the members they represent in a academic manner. The main reason you're in college is your education, not clubs/socs (and don't twist my words here, i'm not saying they are mutually exclusive)

Your point, the way it was presented, was that 2 clubs had funding cut yet class reps were being trained. Now, to me these two stances are not related in any way. You never said if all clubs/socs had their funding cut, right across the board. Never said if these two clubs had a drop in number/etc which would have been reflected in a drop in capitation.

Also i'm pretty sure the SU matches X amount from the NUI in relation to capitation rather than the SU just shoveling money towards clubs/socs. I am open to correction on where the cash comes from though.

Neither of my examples had a drop in numbers, both were up.
Both were doing very, Games doing very well at clubs and socs awards and archery dong very well at national competitions.

These and others can use more money.

What doesn't need money is the class reps.

So why is a totally frivolous expense which can be accomplished with a fraction of the cost more important than clubs and socs.

If the SU was looking for stuff to cut back on, why cut it from stuff students actually use and care about?

Class Rep training junket?

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