How long does it take for a Garda to come to the front desk in Store St?

amdublin · 10-10-2011 07:52PM

Chief--- wrote: »

Gardai can barely get office chairs to sit on.... all in most stations are broken.

Any kind of digital display or ticketing system....dream on.

No one asked for that

A sign! A simple sign giving an expectation of how long you could have to wait, the reason why you might have to wait i.e. what the gards could be dealing with while not serving at the counter. Plus an apology for the time wait.

Is that too much to ask?

d3exile · 10-10-2011 07:57PM

amdublin wrote: »

d3exile wrote: »

In case of emergency dial 999 or 112 It doesn't get more simple than that really...

Like has been said before the Gardai are not the Fire Service nor are they the tax office. If there is an emergency that needs urgent seeing to it will be done. Unfortunately as Joe public likes nothing more than to b*tch about every aspect of the Gardas work day we can get rather overstretched.

Im guessing that most people on here whinging have never had 5-6 (minimum) prisoners screaming and headbutting, kicking, punching the cell doors (they're actually the manageable ones it's the quiet ones you have to keep checking on as so many think it's a great idea to do damage to yourself in a cell to get compo money from the state..) as I said that's a minimum number in city centre stations, in the meantime we're so under resourced that odds are there's one lone guard looking after that.. along with the public office, front desk and phones. Easy to say online but if any of those on here complaining, that can look after that zoo and answer phone calls from people looking for their lost purse, and sign tax forms and passport forms and take reports of stolen property etc AND fly out the door to tackle two men fighting then the next recruitment date is maybe 2014 by which time we'll be down nearly a 1/3 of our manpower, so feel free to apply and show us all how easy it is, red cape and underwear on the outside is a must...

Unfortunately at busy times the phone and desk wait. If not, something else gets overlooked or not get the attention it requires and Garda x is up in the high court. With the rag papers calling for blue blood...

Why not a sign up outlining all of the above? Part of the frustration of waiting is that there is no information: no expectation set of how long the wait time could be, no indication why one has to wait.

As to do I do all those things in my job? The answer to that is no. But I do a million different things, and juggle all sorts of things that you wouldn't be able to do if you were in my world. We all have jobs to do, you seem to think you are the only person in the world with some pressure in their job.

Like I said, 2014 if you're up to it

Diddler1977 · 10-10-2011 07:58PM

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Nobody is sent there, there is a list of people on the back of the form who can do this, including, priests, teachers, doctors etc.
If you dont feel like waiting for a Garda to sign your form ,feel free to pay €50 to a doctor.

If you are living in Ireland it has to be a Garda who witnesses your passport form signature and signs your passport photos

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_abroad/passports/renewing_an_irish_passport.html

Rialtas · 10-10-2011 07:59PM

This is a pretty interesting thread.

I think a couple of issues could be looked at by the powers that be:

a) Dealing with prisoners is a massive strain on individual stations. In an ideal, non-IMF world, AGS should examine rationalising the number of stations dealing with custody. Either centralise all custody in one facility in the DMR or else designate three or four stations as custody suites with personnel specifically assigned as custody officers.

b) There is no need for each station in the DMR to have public desks. Designate the divisional hq's for public office services and limit public access to the remaining stations. Again, in an ideal world these stations would be staffed by civilians who can "triage" members of the public, supported by proper IT facilities at point of contact. This might not work in rural areas but no one in Dublin can complain about the distance to their nearest divisional hq.

Regarding the wider context of this thread, I think a bit of give and take is required. The AGS needs to accept that the service at public office level is below what's expected - for a multitude of reasons within, and outside, the control of the force. And similarly the public at large will have to accept that the AGS is under enormous pressure so they could be more pragmatic in what they expect the service provision should be at present.

source · 10-10-2011 08:03PM

amdublin wrote: »

No one asked for that

A sign! A simple sign giving an expectation of how long you could have to wait, the reason why you might have to wait i.e. what the gards could be dealing with while not serving at the counter. Plus an apology for the time wait.

Is that too much to ask?

I can see it now:

An Garda Siochana would like to apologise, your wait time is over 5 minutes, the reason for this is the prisoner in cell #6 has tried to hang himself and when the member on duty tried to free him from the noose he made from his trousers, the prisoner got aggressive, there are now 6 members dealing with this incident your form is important to us, thank you for waiting.

As you can imagine, it's not really possible to give this kind of information to people, nor should people be given this kind of information. This is a situation I have seen on a number of occasions. People aren't given reasons for the time they have to wait because they have no right to know this information.

On computers not being near public counters, this is due to the sensitive nature of the information being held on them.

There is a reason for everything you see in a Garda Station. Just because you don't understand the processes or why you are waiting, doesn't mean you should be told.

Bullseye1 · 10-10-2011 08:04PM

So if there is an emergency outside and someone calls into the station they are wasting their time and would be better off ringing 999. Who will inturn contact you to tell you tha there is trouble outside. Seems inefficient.

Chief--- wrote: »

Alot of things take priority in a station and if there is only one or two Gardai on duty the hatch/front desk sometimes comes last.

Prisoners are the main priority, if 4 or 5 prisoners are detained this will take up a lot of time.

With most prisoners being drunk they have to be checked and roused every 15 mins.

Other prisoners require consultations with solicitors or doctors or require ambulances. Gardai have to be present and supervise all these visits.

Then the phones have to be answered, cctv operated, radios operated and assiatance given to car crews.

Unfortunately signing papers and passports at the front desk takes a low priority.

If you require the Gardai urgently dial 999, these operators have no other jobs to do apart from answer your call. And are in direct contact with car crews.

OP if you had made enough noise or shouted for assistance in the public office somebody would have come out, but then again the Gardai in the staiton looking after prisoners would not have been able to leave the station, or would have been equipped to deal with a fight.

It would have been diverted to the car crew.

Hope this explains what goes on in a Garda Station. And Sundays are a very busy day.

edit.

Oh and being store street i presume they would have 10+ cells maybe even 20 I dont know.

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:05PM

d3exile wrote: »

Like I said, 2014 if you're up to it

I don't want to be a gard

I want a proper service from the Garda service though.

Is that such a crime

(hee hee! Pun!

)

Paparazzo · 10-10-2011 08:06PM

I was in Ballyfermott station about 5 times in the last 2 years, the guards were no longer than 10 seconds after ringing the bell and couldn't have been nicer. Some of this "this is not acceptable" stuff is rubbish. If they're short staffed the desk is the least important part of the station. Should they take in a patrol car so the lads can man the desk instead?

Diddler1977 · 10-10-2011 08:07PM

I just can't believe this thread.....

OP goes to a Garda Station to report a crime in progress and is told they should have called 999.

To apply for a passport you must get it signed and witnessed by a Garda. Where are you suposed to get this done in a timely manner if no Garda will come out to the public desk.

Why can't a clerical officer man the public counter? Or why have public counters at all?????

Diddler1977 · 10-10-2011 08:08PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

I was in Ballyfermott station about 5 times in the last 2 years, the guards were no longer than 10 seconds after ringing the bell and couldn't have been nicer. Some of this "this is not acceptable" stuff is rubbish. If they're short staffed the desk is the least important part of the station. Should they take in a patrol car so the lads can man the desk instead?

Some stations have no bells

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:12PM

source wrote: »

I can see it now:

As you can imagine, it's not really possible to give this kind of information to people, nor should people be given this kind of information. This is a situation I have seen on a number of occasions. People aren't given reasons for the time they have to wait because they have no right to know this information.

On computers not being near public counters, this is due to the sensitive nature of the information being held on them.

There is a reason for everything you see in a Garda Station. Just because you don't understand the processes or why you are waiting, doesn't mean you should be told.

Banks manage to have computers (unmanned at times) sitting on public counters with equally sensitive information

The sign does not have to have specifics. Just a simple explanation that it is an unmanned desk and that the gard may be off dealing with other issues of a higher priority. Give an idea of the time you may have to wait and apologise in advance if the person has to wait.

There's a lot of good suggestions being bandied and suggested on this thread and there a lot of responses of a "no, no, no" nature.
How will things ever improve if you're not prepared to try out new things

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:14PM

pada1981 wrote: »

My friend has a very busy agenda every time he goes in: argue with his colleagues who gets the jeep.

source · 10-10-2011 08:14PM

Diddler1977 wrote: »

I just can't believe this thread.....

OP goes to a Garda Station to report a crime in progress and is told they should have called 999.

To apply for a passport you must get it signed and witnessed by a Garda. Where are you suposed to get this done in a timely manner if no Garda will come out to the public desk.

Why can't a clerical officer man the public counter? Or why have public counters at all?????

Get onto your local TD then and say that the plan to reduce Garda numbers by 1500, reduce the Garda budget and not recruit till 2014 is a bad idea.

The situations described in this thread is due to staff shortages. Clerical officers don't have the power to sign forms, or take reports of crimes. So a Garda has to be there too. So that won't solve the problem.

As for having to call 999/112, as I've already said: GARDAI DON'T HANG AROUND STATIONS WAITING FOR CALLS. Also the Gardai in the station cannot leave the station as they are detailed for fixed posts and have to attend to the care of prisoners in the station. So yes 999 and 112 are the best options.

If you go into a station and it is a rare occasion that there are members there then they will not hesitate to go outside and deal with the situation.

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:15PM

Diddler1977 wrote: »

I just can't believe this thread.....

OP goes to a Garda Station to report a crime in progress and is told they should have called 999.

To apply for a passport you must get it signed and witnessed by a Garda. Where are you suposed to get this done in a timely manner if no Garda will come out to the public desk.

Why can't a clerical officer man the public counter? Or why have public counters at all?????

Good points!

Change from within!
Why not make suggestions to your superior that work like stamping passport applications should be removed from the guards?

Bullseye1 · 10-10-2011 08:18PM

Couldn't they have had the reserve force attending the desk instead of "holding their hands". If there was a situation which required the onsite Garda's attention they could relay the message.

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:19PM

source wrote: »

If you go into a station and it is a rare occasion that there are members there then they will not hesitate to go outside and deal with the situation.

Dude! They're there alright. They come out to you at the desk (eventually)...

source · 10-10-2011 08:19PM

amdublin wrote: »

Banks manage to have computers (unmanned at times) sitting on public counters with equally sensitive information

The sign does not have to have specifics. Just a simple explanation that it is an unmanned desk and that the gard may be off dealing with other issues of a higher priority. Give an idea of the time you may have to wait and apologise in advance if the person has to wait.

There's a lot of good suggestions being bandied and suggested on this thread and there a lot of responses of a "no, no, no" nature.
How will things ever improve if you're not prepared to try out new things

Banks don't have criminal records of everyone in the state who has been in trouble, intelligence reports etc etc. Information on Pulse is more sensitive than held in a bank.

The nature of police work, means that times cannot be given, every prisoner that comes in has a 6 page A3 document filled in on them. Depending on the prisoner this can take anywhere from 2 minutes to half an hour.

AGS and members have no problem with trying out new procedures, but what is being suggested here is not workable due to the nature of the job.

goldie fish · 10-10-2011 08:20PM

amdublin wrote: »

There are computers in stations arent there

Do you all have one each or do you hot desk them?

Why can't one be moved out and secured at the desk?

Come on people let's think of ways to make your job better and easier rather than accepting the statos quo!

Most smaller stations have One PULSE computer. Larger ones have one per office, IE, Public office, Sgts Office, Communications Room, Detective office. Definitely not one per person. They are Desktop computers, hardwired into a closed network. Definitely not Wireless, definitely not laptop.
It contains secure information to which the public must not have access to. Because the Public Office desk is occasionally unmanned, while the Garda on duty at the desk is doing other duties(prisoner etc), the Computer is kept at a location where the public cannot see it or access it when unattended. While it is password controlled, leaving it in the public area could make it prone to criminal damage.(You'd be amazed the **** that goes on in the public area after hours).

GS are constrained from doing much to change how their job is done without cooperation from Garda Management or DoJ. The Various unions may seek to change work practices, but if management doesn't agree with them, tough. It took 15 years, for example, to introduce a radio system that was more secure than the walkie talkies you buy for children. It took longer to introduce anti-stab vests. The GS still do not have enough Patrol Cars, never mind Proper patrol cars that are not just family saloons or hatchbacks with a blue light stuck to the roof, and some stickers on the door.

The Issue at the OP is caused by problems not of the individual Garda making. Understaffing(They have to cut more) Lack of adequate detention facilities(prisoners from court are held in garda cells until their bail is organised, or a committal warrant is signed), and properly strict monitoring of prisoners, which mean the welfare and safety of those in custody takes priority over routine desk inquiries. Emergency calls are usually not taken at the front desk, this is what 999/112 is for, no more so than you should email the gardai to report a robbery.

source · 10-10-2011 08:23PM

amdublin wrote: »

Good points!

Change from within!
Why not make suggestions to your superior that work like stamping passport applications should be removed from the guards?

That suggestion would need to be made to the Dept of Foreign Affairs, as it is they who manufacture the forms, and the fact that a member of AGS is needed to sign the form is enshrined in legislation.

Not a simple matter of suggesting to AGS superiors, yet again a member of the public who doesn't understand what they are talking about and blaming the wrong people for a problem.

goldie fish · 10-10-2011 08:25PM

amdublin wrote: »

My friend has a very busy agenda every time he goes in: argue with his colleagues who gets the jeep.

Is your friend a builder or a farmer? In the Gardai the decision is made by the unit Sgt.

source · 10-10-2011 08:26PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Couldn't they have had the reserve force attending the desk instead of "holding their hands". If there was a situation which required the onsite Garda's attention they could relay the message.

Their powers don't exist unless accompanied by a full member of AGS.

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:26PM

source wrote: »

That suggestion would need to be made to the Dept of Foreign Affairs, as it is they who manufacture the forms, and the fact that a member of AGS is needed to sign the form is enshrined in legislation.

Not a simple matter of suggesting to AGS superiors, yet again a member of the public who doesn't understand what they are talking about and blaming the wrong people for a problem.

Well then suggest it to the Dept of Foreign Affairs!!

Get on to you local td and explain the inefficiencies in your job and get the legislation changed.

Why are you accepting this?!

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:27PM

goldie fish wrote: »

Is your friend a builder or a farmer? In the Gardai the decision is made by the unit Sgt.

Yes and is the Sgt not his colleague

source · 10-10-2011 08:28PM

amdublin wrote: »

My friend has a very busy agenda every time he goes in: argue with his colleagues who gets the jeep.

Bull plop, this is detailed by the unit Sergeant daily, he/she details who does what and in what vehicle on any given day.

goldie fish · 10-10-2011 08:28PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Couldn't they have had the reserve force attending the desk instead of "holding their hands". If there was a situation which required the onsite Garda's attention they could relay the message.

If Only.

On this forum, it is frowned upon if one were to point out that Garda reservists are merely ordinary, well intentioned civilians who get to dress up as gardai, but who otherwise are powerless to carry out any garda duty.

goldie fish · 10-10-2011 08:29PM

amdublin wrote: »

Well then suggest it to the Dept of Foreign Affairs!!

Get on to you local td and explain the inefficiencies in your job and get the legislation changed.

Why are you accepting this?!

Gardai are exressly forbidden from contacting a member of the Oireachtas do discuss matters relating to their service.
You can be sacked for it.

Surely your "friend" the sgt would tell you this.

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:30PM

source wrote: »

.

The nature of police work, means that times cannot be given, every prisoner that comes in has a 6 page A3 document filled in on them. Depending on the prisoner this can take anywhere from 2 minutes to half an hour.

AGS and members have no problem with trying out new procedures, but what is being suggested here is not workable due to the nature of the job.

Then put a sign up advising the wait may be anything from 2 mins to half an hour

Set the expectation with your customer that they may be waiting some time equals less unhappy customer than one who is waiting without a clue.

source · 10-10-2011 08:30PM

amdublin wrote: »

Well then suggest it to the Dept of Foreign Affairs!!

Get on to you local td and explain the inefficiencies in your job and get the legislation changed.

Why are you accepting this?!

I won't be getting onto my local TD as I don't see a problem with the practice, in fact given the recent times of false Irish passports being used abroad, the practice of a member of AGS verifying identity on a passport form is more relevant than ever. Also as Goldie said, it's not a practice that is allowed.

amdublin · 10-10-2011 08:32PM

Guys do you want to be more efficient or what???

Or do you just want to go in and out every day and deal in this mediocrity?

Are you really happy with providing this kind of service?!

Oddjob · 10-10-2011 08:34PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the shortage of Gardai not down mainly to a 100 year old shift system where, in a busy station like Pearse St, you have the same amount of Police working wednesday morning as you have on a saturday night?

And that it can't be changed as they're looking for more money?

How long does it take for a Garda to come to the front desk in Store St?

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