How long does it take for a Garda to come to the front desk in Store St?

amdublin

eroo wrote: »

I don't mean to be smart but a Garda Station is not a customer service centre. Gardai shouldn't have to apologise for being busy. It's a police station which can be dealing with a variety of different prisoners for a variety of different crimes. Gardai can't just let a prisoner sit in a cell for an hour without being checked because a person needs to get a form stamped.

Also, Gardai need to get a break too. That Garda might have been trying to get a quick bite to eat, as a shift can be so busy they might not get a chance. I'm sure you are entitled to and actually get a break in your workplace. That is not always the case for Gardai.

Finally, writing details down on a loose A4 piece of paper is perfectly acceptable. A Garda's notebook can be used as evidence in court so it shouldn't have jottings or short hand notes. So for example, if you produce your insurance certificate at a station the Garda may require some very basic details so as to put the insurance cert details on the system. Writing these in an Official notebook is unnecessary.

Unfortunately, as always, most people assume the worst of Gardai. Bottom line: They are understaffed, under resourced and overworked.. but they will still be the first to come to your aid in an emergency.

Common sense and and common manners would dictate you should apologise. Maybe it is the attitude that there is no need to apologise is why people think the worst?

So over the course of the night if there are ten or twenty loose sheets used, what happens these loose sheets is the info transferred to computer? In my job I need to record things and the last place I record them is on a loose sheet because nine times out of ten that loose piece of paper gets lost.

My point about improving prcesses stands. Wouldn't it be better to record straight on to a computer rather then on a loose sheet of paper? Doesn't that sound much more efficient? (and save on double work later IF the info is transferred to a computer. IF being the operative word )

Shield

eroo wrote: »

I don't mean to be smart but a Garda Station is not a customer service centre.

You should come up here. In some UK prisons, there's a movement to get the prisoners recognised as "customers".

Madness.

Zambia

If someone needs Police to come to a scene they should dial 999. If you ring/call to the Station chances are they dial 999 for you and request Police to come to you.

If someone just needs to inform police of a crime they witnessed there is some sort of 1800 number if memory serves me right?

So if someone attends a Station chances are its for some clerical issue, non urgent report or advice etc.

From what I know of Store St's patch and What Chief stated was handled by the Station it would need a staff of about 5 Officers and A Sergeant to Handle that watchhouse. To the degree that people would be seen Promptly.

I am going to take a Gamble and say they don't have 5 Staff during peak hours.

eroo

amdublin wrote: »

So over the course of the night if there are ten or twenty loose sheets used, what happens these loose sheets is the info transferred to computer? In my job I need to record things and the last place I record them is on a loose sheet because nine times out of ten that loose piece of paper gets lost.

My point about improving prcesses stands. Wouldn't it be better to record straight on to a computer rather then on a loose sheet of paper? Doesn't that sound much more efficient? (and save on double work later IF the info is transferred to a computer. IF being the operative word )

I can assure you the information is put on the system. The reason for jotting it down is usually because the computer is away from the counter.

As for your last point, that is not an issue for individual Gardai. Gardai are extremely efficient with the limited resources they have. I can't be any clearer about they being understaffed, under resourced and overworked. Until the Government decides AGS needs proper resources and funding (which they didn't even get during the boom), it is the public who will suffer.

Sundew

eroo wrote: »

I don't mean to be smart but a Garda Station is not a customer service centre. Gardai shouldn't have to apologise for being busy.

We know it's not a customer service centre but is it not also supposed to be a place where one can report a crime to? Thats what I as an ordinary member of the public was always led to believe however now I know otherwise.I didn't hang around because I knew by the time somebody came to the desk, the assault was probably over and done with!

eroo

Sundew wrote: »

We know it's not a customer service centre but is it not also supposed to be a place where one can report a crime to? Thats what I as an ordinary member of the public was always led to believe however now I know otherwise.I didn't hang around because I knew by the time somebody came to the desk, the assault was probably over and done with!

Yes crimes can be reported at a station, but it is not the Gardai's fault they are busy with other issues. It doesn't mean they don't care, just they cannot deal with every issue straight away.

As I said, if you had rang the Gardai they would have been able to dispatch a car there immediately as opposed to the time it would have taken to report it, then that Garda to ring comms room to get a car dispatched. Also, if you had remained at the scene you may have been able to direct the responding unit to the suspects, if they were no longer there.

All of that aside your intentions were good and fair play for trying to do something about the fight as most people, sadly, don't.

Here's a question for ye Gardaí;

I'd have been in and out of the Drogheda station a handful of times, and at night time it's usually dead inside. No one around and no noise of anything being done. What I usually do is ring the station and politely ask them to come down, which they usually say "ok, someone will be down to you now" and a Garda would appear a minute or two later.

My question; is that me being a prick and interfering in their work, or would I be better off continuing to do that in future?



Also, for places like Store St. (which I've never been in, or even seen), if it's so busy at all times, does it not make more sense to remove the desk altogether and block public access? No passports, forms, etc. allowed to be signed, and a notice advising people to use a nearby Garda Station instead?

Have a Garda on the desk full time at one of the stations in the city, and have all the other stations divert people to the designated one for non-emergency issues?

Diddler1977

This is a mad thread altogether!

From this thread I have garnered the following info:
1. When you see a fight don't attempt to head to the station in close proximity instead call 999 or get involved and try and stop the fight yourself:eek:

2. Gardai are basically not available to sign passport forms etc. (why are we sent here to get this done???)

3. Scraps of paper are fine for crimes reported by the public to be marked down on

4. Long waits are to be expected (this is without the Gardai on duty ascertaining what you are waiting to speak to them about - at least when you visit A&E a triage nurse will place you in a line and indicate a wait time)

5. Gardai are not here to provide customer service(!!!)

seamus

amdublin wrote: »

Or why not improve other processes and be more efficient at other processes which would then provide capacity/time to man the front office?

Gardai occupy one of the few professions, along with medical staff and a few others where their duties cannot be broken down into simple predictable processes that can be tweaked, automated and improved to within an inch of their life. There just too much variance to slot everything into a neat like box.

If we were paying a member to stand at the counter for the 12 hours of their shift, people would be complaining that we're paying good money to get members to stamp forms.

That is in fact the primary issue here. Other duties must take priority over manning the public counter. It's not an emergency counter. We shouldn't be paying Gardai to stand at a counter and stamp forms.

The most logical thing to do would be to make more use of the Peace Commissioner system and arrange to have such people manning the counter from morning to evening, freeing up members' time. If someone comes in to report a crime, the commissioner moves them into a separate area where a member can talk to them.

Sundew

Diddler1977 wrote: »

This is a mad thread altogether!

From this thread I have garnered the following info:
1. When you see a fight don't attempt to head to the station in close proximity instead call 999 or get involved and try and stop the fight yourself:eek:

Diddler: I'm also amazed that a garda would advise this on a public forum. I took it as "tounge in cheek" but Gardai are not exempt from using smilies to convey exactly what they mean

I should stress that I didn't start this thread to knock our Gardai but to genuinely find out why it was so difficult to report an incident which was unfolding at the back of the station.

Diddler1977

Sundew wrote: »

Diddler: I'm also amazed that a garda would advise this on a public forum. I took it as "tounge in cheek" but Gardai are not exempt from using smilies to convey exactly what they mean

I should stress that I didn't start this thread to knock our Gardai but to genuinely find out why it was so difficult to report an incident which was unfolding at the back of the station.

I'm also amazed that you could not get a Garda to assist you at the public counter.

I am also amazed by the litany of reasons that turned up here as to why you should not be reporting crimes at the public counter.

The excuses as to why a Garda couldn't come to the counter were quite something too - I am also surprised by the expectation that the public should be fine with waiting maybe 20 mins or so to get a form signed. Why bother offer this service if you can't do it in a timely and professional manner?

Makes you wonder why there is a public counter at all!

pixiebean22

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I was under the impression that intervening in a fight is something you would not be advised to do by any member of law enforcement. If I was to intervene in a fight and god forbid I did some serious damage to one of the people involved in the fight by accident, lets say I grabbed one of them and they fell and whacked their head (which could so easily happen if the person is drunk) then that's me done for assault.

If your actions are lawful then you have nothing to worry about. You may just be asked to give a statement and then be done with it.

amdublin wrote: »

Or why not improve other processes and be more efficient at other processes which would then provide capacity/time to man the front office?

How can you improve the process that requires several members to deal with a violent prisoner? Or a prisoner threatening self harm? Or giving details to beats/mobiles about a robbery in progress, somebody breaking into a premises?

Sundew wrote: »

We know it's not a customer service centre but is it not also supposed to be a place where one can report a crime to? Thats what I as an ordinary member of the public was always led to believe however now I know otherwise.I didn't hang around because I knew by the time somebody came to the desk, the assault was probably over and done with!

Sundew wrote: »

Diddler: I'm also amazed that a garda would advise this on a public forum. I took it as "tounge in cheek" but Gardai are not exempt from using smilies to convey exactly what they mean

Verbal intervention? If there are other people looking on they may assist if asked. People would rather just stand back and gawp saying "isn't it terrible?" Or better still recording it on their mobiles.

At least you did make an effort to do something about it by going into the station, but sometimes it's not going to be the best option. So bear in mind the 999/112 numbers.

Triangla

As a member of the public who wouldn't have a clue about the inner workings of a Garda station I would have assumed too that if you saw an incident outside a Garda station that required Garda attention you would just go in to station.

The worse thing is probably the waiting indefinitely. Why not put a sign up on the hatch that says "Hatch is currently unattended - For urgent attention please dial 999".

That would cost how much time and money to implement? Or God forbid opening the hatch and saying that in person.

The only people who go to Garda stations besides Gardai are people who are there for a reason and chances are have suffered from or are reporting a crime.

As for advising a member of the public to intervene in an incident between two drunken males - Are you for real?

Zambia

Sorry thus intervene thing is on a case by case basis. It really is intervene if safe and legal to do so for you. Anymore goes way Off Topic. There is no hard a fast rule about getting involved.

tricky D

Diddler1977 wrote: »

This is a mad thread altogether!

5. Gardai are not here to provide customer service(!!!)

They're not quite in customer service, but actually in the realm of public service which is arguably even more important.

Mr Jinx

Diddler1977 wrote: »

This is a mad thread altogether!

From this thread I have garnered the following info:
1. When you see a fight don't attempt to head to the station in close proximity instead call 999 or get involved and try and stop the fight yourself:eek:

2. Gardai are basically not available to sign passport forms etc. (why are we sent here to get this done???)

3. Scraps of paper are fine for crimes reported by the public to be marked down on

4. Long waits are to be expected (this is without the Gardai on duty ascertaining what you are waiting to speak to them about - at least when you visit A&E a triage nurse will place you in a line and indicate a wait time)

5. Gardai are not here to provide customer service(!!!)

Nobody is sent there, there is a list of people on the back of the form who can do this, including, priests, teachers, doctors etc.
If you dont feel like waiting for a Garda to sign your form ,feel free to pay €50 to a doctor.

audidiesel

the way things are going, i guarantee that in a year or two everyone is going to be looking back at this as the golden age of policing.

totally understaffed and under resourced with incompetant management in a lot of cases. vast duplication of work etc.

people are going to see that its not only delays waiting at the counter but also delays with urgent calls. cars simply wont be available to deal with everything. (a lot of the time they arent now even).

its becoming a responsive rather than pro-active force. get used to it.

eroo

Diddler1977 wrote: »

This is a mad thread altogether!

From this thread I have garnered the following info:
1. When you see a fight don't attempt to head to the station in close proximity instead call 999 or get involved and try and stop the fight yourself:eek:

2. Gardai are basically not available to sign passport forms etc. (why are we sent here to get this done???)

3. Scraps of paper are fine for crimes reported by the public to be marked down on

4. Long waits are to be expected (this is without the Gardai on duty ascertaining what you are waiting to speak to them about - at least when you visit A&E a triage nurse will place you in a line and indicate a wait time)

5. Gardai are not here to provide customer service(!!!)

Please, re-read my posts and you will see every point you have made in the above post is incorrect. Seriously, re-read my posts. None of the above is true, nor did I ever imply it was.

jjmcclure

foreign wrote: »

If anybody tried that in my station they'd be shown the door fairly quickly. As chief said, the front counter is the least important duty of Gardaí on station duty.



Would your husband not have tried to intervene?

Hey Foreign,

Don't forget you are a PUBLIC SERVANT and as such there to SERVE THE PUBLIC. Typical Civil Service attitude "Let some one else do it, I'm on a break".

And as for advising a member of the public to intervene in a street brawl, the mind boggles. Didn't the system jail some taxi driver a few years back for intervening when some girls boyfriend was beating the crap out of her on the quays.

Do us all a favour and hand over your hat and badge and go take up a librarians post.

Witcher

audidiesel wrote: »

its becoming a responsive rather than pro-active force. get used to it.

Sure it's always been that way...some like the poster below don't even get a response. Not saying it's the average Garda's fault, they get the sh1t end of the stick and then get blamed for the mess.

Unique User Name wrote: »

I had an attempted house break in a few months ago and called 999. They told me a car was on the way but it never came. Yes I could have called back but after I realised they weren't going to show up enough time had passed that it would have been pointless. From what I hear this would not be an isolated incident either

source

What I can't understand is how people expect Gardai to be all sitting around the station waiting for a call.

AGS is not the Fire service, we don't all sit around the station waiting for someone to come in to report something. There is a bare minimum (sometimes less) of members left in the station at any one time. Everybody else is out and about, patrolling on foot, in vans, cars and on bikes.

If a prisoner is sitting in a cell going crazy then the people sitting in the public office have to sit and wait until the situation is resolved. If a prisoner goes nuts and the alarm is hit, we don't have time to make up a little sign to say: "Gone Restrainin'.....Back in 5", we drop everything and run.

The lack of comprehension as to what AGS actually do and have to deal with is mind boggling. Traffic Blues really helped shine a light on what goes on behind the scenes, but perhaps the time has come to follow the regular units and let people see exactly where the people who say "I pay your wages" money is going. The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because people aren't ready to see what really goes on, on our streets and in the cells of Garda stations, up and down the country every night of the week.

There is an emergency number that everybody in the country knows, 999 and 112, will get you a response. So if you ever find yourself in a situation like in the OP again, stop, think about the fact that Gardai don't just sit around the station waiting for calls, ring the emergency line, ask for Gardai where you are and then wait to hear the sirens.

amdublin

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Nobody is sent there, there is a list of people on the back of the form who can do this, including, priests, teachers, doctors etc.
If you dont feel like waiting for a Garda to sign your form ,feel free to pay €50 to a doctor.

This is incorrect.

This only applies if you are applying from outside of the state. Inside the state it is a gard who has to sign it.

amdublin

eroo wrote: »

I can assure you the information is put on the system. The reason for jotting it down is usually because the computer is away from the counter.

As for your last point, that is not an issue for individual Gardai. Gardai are extremely efficient with the limited resources they have. I can't be any clearer about they being understaffed, under resourced and overworked. Until the Government decides AGS needs proper resources and funding (which they didn't even get during the boom), it is the public who will suffer.

How efficient does this sound to you:
Go out to member of public and jot down their details.
Go back inside and transfer to computer while other member of public waits.
Come out to waiting member of public, jot down their details.
Go back inside, deal with prisoner. Starttransferring details to computer.
Go out to another person.
Jot down their details (keep an eye on this line here!)
Go back inside and finish transferring prev persons details.
Check CCTV, take phone call.
Go out to another person, jot down details.
Go back in to transfer prev details to computer. Realise you have lost piece of person. Oh well!
Start transferring persons details.
And on.
And on.
And so on.

The change could start with YOU! At your next staff meeting why not suggest to your superior that you either locate a (secured) pc out at the desk and rather than jotting down on a loose piece of paper(!!!) you input straight on to the computer!
Or you use a laptop and literally take it out with you every time you go out to a person at the desk.
When you factor in the cost of Double/rework for each person in the station that laptop will pay for itself in a month.

What you think?

amdublin

source wrote: »

If a prisoner is sitting in a cell going crazy then the people sitting in the public office have to sit and wait until the situation is resolved. If a prisoner goes nuts and the alarm is hit, we don't have time to make up a little sign to say: "Gone Restrainin'.....Back in 5", we drop everything and run.

Yeah how about a sign there permanently giving information like:

Average wait time is xxxx
The reason you may have to wait is because of yyyy.
We apologise for any inconvenience caused, please bear with us.

Ps. I know earlier on someone refuted that they'd ever deign to apologise. Well I'm reiterating that it's needed.

deadwood

amdublin wrote: »

The change could start with YOU! At your next staff meeting why not suggest to your superior that you either locate a (secured) pc out at the desk and rather than jotting down on a loose piece of paper(!!!) you input straight on to the computer!
Or you use a laptop and literally take it out with you every time you go out to a person at the desk.
When you factor in the cost of Double/rework for each person in the station that laptop will pay for itself in a month.

What you think?

You're preaching to the choir.

You'd be doing well to get a pen, never mind a laptop.

Wouldn't this thread be mor suited to AH?

Drummerboy08

Zambia wrote: »

Sorry thus intervene thing is on a case by case basis. It really is intervene if safe and legal to do so for you. Anymore goes way Off Topic. There is no hard a fast rule about getting involved.

Sorry to dive in here, but IMHO members of the public are neither trained or capable of stepping in to break up a fight like this. Having spent many years working in nightclubs, I've seen it happen and it only makes things a lot worse.

Either the guy who intervenes ends up actually getting involved in the fight, or more usually he ends up getting a hiding.

I'm capable of looking after myself if the need arises, but I'm certainly not going to step into a fight like the OP outlined. If it was a guy hitting a female then maybe but I'd have to consider it very carefully.

Not only that, but I'm not paid to risk my own health to uphold peace on the streets!

On the otherside, I certainly agree that AGS are underfunded and massively understaffed.

It's a job that you'll never get a thanks for and that you will never be able to keep everyone happy.

amdublin

deadwood wrote: »

You're preaching to the choir.

You'd be doing well to get a pen, never mind a laptop.

Wouldn't this thread be mor suited to AH?

There are computers in stations arent there

Do you all have one each or do you hot desk them?

Why can't one be moved out and secured at the desk?

Come on people let's think of ways to make your job better and easier rather than accepting the statos quo!

d3exile

In case of emergency dial 999 or 112 It doesn't get more simple than that really...

Like has been said before the Gardai are not the Fire Service nor are they the tax office. If there is an emergency that needs urgent seeing to it will be done. Unfortunately as Joe public likes nothing more than to b*tch about every aspect of the Gardas work day we can get rather overstretched.

Im guessing that most people on here whinging have never had 5-6 (minimum) prisoners screaming and headbutting, kicking, punching the cell doors (they're actually the manageable ones it's the quiet ones you have to keep checking on as so many think it's a great idea to do damage to yourself in a cell to get compo money from the state..) as I said that's a minimum number in city centre stations, in the meantime we're so under resourced that odds are there's one lone guard looking after that.. along with the public office, front desk and phones. Easy to say online but if any of those on here complaining, that can look after that zoo and answer phone calls from people looking for their lost purse, and sign tax forms and passport forms and take reports of stolen property etc AND fly out the door to tackle two men fighting then the next recruitment date is maybe 2014 by which time we'll be down nearly a 1/3 of our manpower, so feel free to apply and show us all how easy it is, red cape and underwear on the outside is a must...


Unfortunately at busy times the phone and desk wait. If not, something else gets overlooked or not get the attention it requires and Garda x is up in the high court. With the rag papers calling for blue blood...

amdublin

d3exile wrote: »

In case of emergency dial 999 or 112 It doesn't get more simple than that really...

Like has been said before the Gardai are not the Fire Service nor are they the tax office. If there is an emergency that needs urgent seeing to it will be done. Unfortunately as Joe public likes nothing more than to b*tch about every aspect of the Gardas work day we can get rather overstretched.

Im guessing that most people on here whinging have never had 5-6 (minimum) prisoners screaming and headbutting, kicking, punching the cell doors (they're actually the manageable ones it's the quiet ones you have to keep checking on as so many think it's a great idea to do damage to yourself in a cell to get compo money from the state..) as I said that's a minimum number in city centre stations, in the meantime we're so under resourced that odds are there's one lone guard looking after that.. along with the public office, front desk and phones. Easy to say online but if any of those on here complaining, that can look after that zoo and answer phone calls from people looking for their lost purse, and sign tax forms and passport forms and take reports of stolen property etc AND fly out the door to tackle two men fighting then the next recruitment date is maybe 2014 by which time we'll be down nearly a 1/3 of our manpower, so feel free to apply and show us all how easy it is, red cape and underwear on the outside is a must...


Unfortunately at busy times the phone and desk wait. If not, something else gets overlooked or not get the attention it requires and Garda x is up in the high court. With the rag papers calling for blue blood...

Why not a sign up outlining all of the above? Part of the frustration of waiting is that there is no information: no expectation set of how long the wait time could be, no indication why one has to wait.

As to do I do all those things in my job? The answer to that is no. But I do a million different things, and juggle all sorts of things that you wouldn't be able to do if you were in my world. We all have jobs to do, you seem to think you are the only person in the world with some pressure in their job.

Turner

Gardai can barely get office chairs to sit on.... all in most stations are broken.

Any kind of digital display or ticketing system....dream on.