Christians been driven out of the middle east?

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There was a much larger protest on the 7th October in Tahrir square to do with people opposing the re-enactment of Emergency law. Funnily enough, there were no deaths that I heard of. In a much smaller protest yesterday organised by Christians there were 35 killed and 300 injured (And counting).

Must be luck of the draw I guess.

800 people died kicking out Mubarak. I doubt all of them were Christian. The security apparatus will target anyone it sees as a threat regardless of religion. If Christians are been attacked at the moment its just because they are the current 'threat' to the regime. Tomorrow it will be Shias, next week extremist Sunnis and so on and so forth

Mentioning of the religions of these people is an attempt by both sides to garner support for their causes.

Now this is relation to the 'official security apparatus'.However A lot of these attacks are by civilians against civilians. And again you'll find other motives behind the attacks (for example one of the first such attacks after Mubarak went was due to a marriage disagreement). Once more both sides cried 'muslims are attacking us' or 'Christians are attacking us' to gain support for their own petty revenge needs.

Nodin wrote: »

...based on what they're doing and on state TV sending out a 'call to arms'. Why, one might debate, but they are indeed doing so.

Not only that but the state TV released BS reports that the protestors killed members of the military which they later retracted blaming it on reporter error.

Unfortunately, their plan seems to have worked. International media based their initial reports on the State television service's report of protestors being armed and fighting with the military. Most international news agencies don't seem to have bothered editing their reports to reflect the fact that Egyptian State TV (Which is more than likely controlled by the military) lied about the army deaths and protestors being armed.

Jaafa wrote: »

800 people died kicking out Mubarak. I doubt all of them were Christian. The security apparatus will target anyone it sees as a threat regardless of religion. If Christians are been attacked at the moment its just because they are the current 'threat' to the regime. Tomorrow it will be Shias, next week extremist Sunnis and so on and so forth

Mentioning of the religions of these people is an attempt by both sides to garner support for their causes.

Coptic Christians have been harassed, attacked and killed in Egypt decades before the so called "revolution". None of this is new.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Not only that but the state TV released BS reports that the protestors killed members of the military which they later retracted blaming it on reporter error.

Unfortunately, their plan seems to have worked. International media based their initial reports on the State television service's report of protestors being armed and fighting with the military. Most international news agencies don't seem to have bothered editing their reports to reflect the fact that Egyptian State TV (Which is more than likely controlled by the military) lied about the army deaths and protestors being armed.


Coptic Christians have been harassed, attacked and killed in Egypt decades before the so called "revolution". None of this is new.

Again however I would argue that in a lot of these cases (not all) there have been underlining motives.

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I really doubts it's as bad as Skynews is reporting.

Nothing is ever as bad as Sky New reports.

philologos wrote: »

Ireland's history has shown us how much of society wasn't based on Christianity, but rather feigned to be. This is presumably best kept for another discussion.

Don't really get involved in these threads but that's bullsh*t of the highest order. The Vatican's recent role or rather, non role, in investigations into our history eg.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The regime does not need to kill people to be complicit. The whole reason they're protesting is because the regime has been turning a blind eye to attacks made against Christians and Churches. They not only ignore attacks but members of the regime have often aided the attacks in the past.


I have no need for any links. I know exactly how it is over in Egypt. These "marriage disagreements" and other fabrications are just a ruse to hide the real purpose behind the attacks.

And I'm not arguing with any of that first paragraph. All I'm saying is that they do the same thing to Muslims, Atheists, sufis etc.

Well that's something neither can know for certain. You can't know if religion is the real reason with marriage as the excuse or the other way around. I believe it to be the other way around, you say otherwise.

As an aside, I do not recall ever hearing of a genuine attack by a Copt against a Muslim either in revenge or otherwise. If you knew what Egypt was actually like you'd know that something like that would be considered suicide.

Are you kidding? Don't you remember just after Mubarak was kicked out? There were reprisal attacks for at least a week between Muslims and Christians over the aforementioned 'marriage disagreement'. Also I do know a little something about Egypt but you don't need any indepth knowledge to know why Christians in general don't attack Muslims first. They are the minority. They're not stupid. If the situation was reversed however there's no reason they wouldn't take advantage of that just as some 'muslims' do now.

Jaafa wrote: »

And I'm not arguing with any of that first paragraph. All I'm saying is that they do the same thing to Muslims, Atheists, sufis etc.

No they don't. When Muslim extremists were burning pictures of the Coptic Pope and hitting photos of him with shoes (A huge sign of disrespect in that part of the world) the police and military did absolutely nothing. When Muslims extremists were protesting against Christians wanting to rebuild a Church that extremists had just looted and demolished days earlier the police and military did absolutely nothing to them as well.

In Egypt, when the military or the police attacks Muslims they just attack "people". I have never heard of them attacking or harassing a Muslim merely for the fact they are Muslim. That would be absurd in a Muslim majority country.

Well that's something neither can know for certain. You can't know if religion is the real reason with marriage as the excuse or the other way around. I believe it to be the other way around, you say otherwise.

I've lost count of the number of "Copt eloping with a Muslim girl followed by random acts of violence" stories that i've heard throughout the years. Considering they almost always sound the exact same i'm fairly certain that the vast majority are fabrications.

Are you kidding? Don't you remember just after Mubarak was kicked out? There were reprisal attacks for at least a week between Muslims and Christians over the aforementioned 'marriage disagreement'.

Actually, no I don't. The violence, by and large, originates from a single side. There's no point denying it when even Egyptian Muslims themselves (Albeit only the moderates) acknowledge the source of all the sectarian troubles.

Also I do know a little something about Egypt

Not to be blunt but a little something is just that... A little collection of vague stories and notions that don't really give you the full picture.

but you don't need any indepth knowledge to know why Christians in general don't attack Muslims first. They are the minority. They're not stupid. If the situation was reversed however there's no reason they wouldn't take advantage of that just as some 'muslims' do now.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Coptic Christians would "take advantage" (Read: Harass and kill others) of a hypothetical majority position. Suggesting on a whim that a group of people would willfully harass and kill people without any evidence to suggest the possibility is quite a bold statement.

Jaafa wrote: »

Again you missing the point. The regime has targeted both Muslims and Christians before. Your using one protest of neither side being attacked as proof. You know full well both sides have been attacked. There is no reason to believe the military targets Christian EXCLUSIVELY.

That said of course it doesn't justify any of what their doing.

As for the underlining motives I already gave an example in my first post. Please read it again before replying. If you like I can find a link for you.

think that you are missing the point.
Muslims targeted by the regime were generally political activists like the Muslim Brotherhood, or others actively challenging the regime, they were targeted as individuals or groups on the basis of the challenge that they presented to Mubarak, not on the basis of their religion.
Copts on the other hand have been the target of government discrimination for a long time for no reason greater then their religious identity.
During the swine flu crisis for example, the government opted to slaughter every pig in the country, despite the fact that 'swine flu' was a misnomer and no cases were detected in the heard. But why pass up a chance to destroy the livelihood of members of a minority when such a golden opportunity presented to you on a plate? The tactics of the regime in relation to the fundamentalists was merely to 'outflank' the Muslim Brotherhood' by indulging the anti-Christian bigotry of the Muslim masses.

There is constant low level harassment of the Christian community in Egypt, There is also daily discrimination in jobs and education, property ownership and most particularly in freedom of belief and worship. New churches are routinely destroyed or desecrated and it is next or near impossible to get planning permission to build a new one, (like the early Christians many have been reduced to worshipping in caves).
It is very difficult for an Egyptian Muslim to convert to Christianity. The government will not recognize the change of religion on ID cards and makes it difficult for such people to leave the country. There are numerous stories of converted spouses being persecuted and even kidnapped.
Generally, a blind eye is turned to violence against Christians in Egypt who must now live in fear of islamist violence to which there will clearly be no support from the organs of law and order.