Ireland being RAPED... Norway lead by example!!

Tabnabs · 28-09-2011 10:07AM

Norway, where a pint of Guinness will set you back €11.68 and a Deluxe Bacon Cheeseburger will cost you €24.26 :eek:

http://planetbergen.no/images/uploads/Scruffy_meny_2011_web.pdf

Where in the country that is the sixth-largest net oil exporter in the world, petrol costs €1.84/L and diesel is €1.73/L

However, the average wage in Norway is €55,691.32

http://www.ssb.no/lonnansatt_en/

TL/DR?

Norway - not for tourists!

Nulty · 28-09-2011 10:41AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yeah, but you can't be expecting people to educate themselves on how businesses work ('if they were taxed at 99%, they'd still be making a profit' :rolleyes:) and how the oil industry works - sure that's boring. Better to listen to a few soundbites or watch a propaganda video put together by a clown than to invest some hours in reading boring information.

In fairness I'm sure at least some of the people you are referring to have read up on various things that don't happen to be oil and energy related. We can't all know everything and we sometimes rely on other sources of information. People lead busy lives. But of course that's why discussion forums like boards exist. So people like you can tell people like us where to find better information rather than you complaining that we haven't done everything you have done. Those people you complain about are obviously concerned and impressionable about something like this and if it bothers you that they are misinformed then the best thing for you to do is to be helpful rather than dismissive.

Monty Burnz · 28-09-2011 10:43AM

Nulty wrote: »

In fairness I'm sure at least some of the people you are referring to have read up on various things that don't happen to be oil and energy related. We can't all know everything and we sometimes rely on other sources of information. People lead busy lives. But of course that's why discussion forums like boards exist. So people like you can tell people like us where to find better information rather than you complaining that we haven't done everything you have done. Those people you complain about are obviously concerned and impressionable about something like this and if it bothers you that they are misinformed then the best thing for you to do is to be helpful rather than dismissive.

Point taken, and I've done that (see my previous post where someone actually asks where to find info), but I find it annoying when people take this propaganda at face value and then start fighting for some cause that's totally mistaken. There are plenty of fields where I don't have a breeze - but I won't turn around and start condemning people or demanding a course of action in those areas until I find out what is actually going on (from non-partisan sources).

Bear in mind that I also may have a busy life and don't necessarily have time to spoon-feed people information that is freely available on the web.

Nulty · 28-09-2011 11:00AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Point taken, and I've done that (see my previous post where someone actually asks where to find info), but I find it annoying when people take this propaganda at face value and then start fighting for some cause that's totally mistaken. There are plenty of fields where I don't have a breeze - but I won't turn around and start condemning people or demanding a course of action in those areas until I find out what is actually going on (from non-partisan sources).

Bear in mind that I also may have a busy life and don't necessarily have time to spoon-feed people information that is freely available on the web.

Fair point, I didn't imply "spoon-feeding" though, just that you point them in the right direction like posting one or two URLs doesn't take a massive amount of effort. You spent enough time complaining about peoples misinformation that the time spent posting a URL pales in significance. I'm not having a go though, you did post some useful comments on research so thanks for that.

tipptom · 28-09-2011 11:06AM

4leto wrote: »

We have given Europe 210 billion in fish, they have given us aspiration, and 50 billion in grants.

But our economy has changed, it has employed more people, and made us wealthier.

The thing about wealth and employment, it only matters when it employs people, and those people produce a saleable product, or when we are willing to be consumers of that industry, BUT like most Irish, personally I hate fish, Unless they are battered.

AS for our oil where exactly is that,? I am not saying there is none, there is barrels, but unlike Norway its deep oil, not northsea 100 metres deep oil rig which touches the sea floor, and you can send down a human diver to fix a problem. Ours is 1000 to 2000 metres deep, our rigs would have to float and be controlled in the rough north atlantic by computers.

We seen what happened when this drilling op goes wrong , we get a major leak, and NO irish power to fix it. America and Obama could barely fix that BP disaster.

So leave it alone till the tech is perfect to extract it. So give up the dream of an Ireland Saudi, it really is a risky venture and not worth doing. We have ourselves to create a future. We can, with no pipe dreams.

I say lets get a massive f*cking bridging loan until we get the technology to get it ourselves.

Monty Burnz · 28-09-2011 11:10AM

tipptom wrote: »

I say lets get a massive f*cking bridging loan until we get the technology to get it ourselves.

Would you trust Irish politicians to manage it properly? You saw how Fianna Failure managed our economy during the bubble - you think they could be trusted to build a successful oil company from scratch?

revell · 28-09-2011 11:21AM

Once Ireland has gotten back all the oil and gas, I expect a second property boom and bust and the revisit of IMF.

goose2005 · 28-09-2011 12:11PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

No it shouldn't. If I happened to discover some oil on my land it shouldn't be other people right to just take it for themselves.

Land tenure and ownership is enormously complicated. Your land is probably held in fee simple and is probably not entirely your property.

meglome · 28-09-2011 12:13PM

4leto wrote: »

We have given Europe 210 billion in fish, they have given us aspiration, and 50 billion in grants.

No we haven't unless the fish were made from gold (they weren't in case you were wondering).

Here are the actual figures http://www.seaaroundus.org/eez/372/14.aspx?d=1 (show tabular data).

4leto · 28-09-2011 12:20PM

meglome wrote: »

No we haven't unless the fish were made from gold (they weren't in case you were wondering).

Here are the actual figures http://www.seaaroundus.org/eez/372/14.aspx?d=1 (show tabular data).

Yeah I see that now I was wrong.

As for the oil extraction, great till it goes wrong, and as events this year has proven, it can go incredible wrong.

Now I don't fancy the chances of Lil old Ireland dealing with an oil multinational, if it went wrong.

I say leave it.

Absurdum · 28-09-2011 12:25PM

dey gave it away for nuttin, Joe, nuttin!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Benevolent · 28-09-2011 12:27PM

It's horribly expensive to search for oil, then drill, refine and ship it. The first two costs are what people are expecting the taxpayer to bear - without any guarantee of breaking even, let alone making a profit. For such a small country it's perfectly sensible to turn the process (and rights) over to companies that have huge cash reserves, expertise and equipment. Handing that sort of responsibility over to the Irish gubberment would be like handing orphans over to priests in the 50's. Corruption, incompetence and ass-raping would follow.

Monty Burnz · 28-09-2011 12:32PM

Confab wrote: »

It's horribly expensive to search for oil, then drill, refine and ship it. The first two costs are what people are expecting the taxpayer to bear - without any guarantee of breaking even, let alone making a profit. For such a small country it's perfectly sensible to turn the process (and rights) over to companies that have huge cash reserves, expertise and equipment. Handing that sort of responsibility over to the Irish gubberment would be like handing orphans over to priests in the 50's. Corruption, incompetence and ass-raping would follow.

Which is not to say that in future, a better deal can't be done when it's proven that the time, effort and investment of oil companies is worthwhile - my concern in that case would be that the oil money would be squandered in Fianna Failure-style election buying, rather than invested in a way that would pay for our pensions, education and health services in years to come.

Remember what happened to the pension reserve fund - and every week there's another gombeen calling for it to be spent (i.e. wasted) on some new pork barrel project for his constituents.

mconigol · 28-09-2011 01:27PM

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

fontanalis · 28-09-2011 01:55PM

Phew, some voices of sanity in here. Hopefully the poeple who think that Ireland would be a economic powerhouse if it wasn't for Ray Burke will take note. I doubt it though.

killerboy · 28-09-2011 02:04PM

cml387 wrote: »

Do you know the price of a pint in Norway?

Well actully neither do I,but I bet it;s humungous.

Keith186 wrote: »

About €9 I hear.

My friend just went there on holiday last week and said a sandwich was about 10-15 euros, not to mention a drink. So they got all their things from the duty free at the airport lol

Sky King · 28-09-2011 02:09PM

Charging tax on profits is a waste of time... COMPLETE waste of time. Any self employed person or first year accounting student will tell you how easy it is for a company not to show a profit.

The general consensus now is that the corrib gas field project is not going to show a book profit at all, meaning the country won't get a cent from it... not a cent! We just gave it all away!

fontanalis · 28-09-2011 02:10PM

Sky King wrote: »

Charging tax on profits is a waste of time... COMPLETE waste of time. Any self employed person or first year accounting student will tell you how easy it is for a company not to show a profit.

The general consensus now is that the corrib gas field project is not going to show a book profit at all, meaning the country won't get a cent from it... not a cent! We just gave it all away!

How much would the government have had to pump in to get it running in the first place? Genral consensus or Joe Duffy caller consensus. People have to be employed that's PAYE, local goods and services may be purchased so there's VAT on those etc

K-9 · 28-09-2011 02:16PM

Sky King wrote: »

Charging tax on profits is a waste of time... COMPLETE waste of time. Any self employed person or first year accounting student will tell you how easy it is for a company not to show a profit.

The general consensus now is that the corrib gas field project is not going to show a book profit at all, meaning the country won't get a cent from it... not a cent! We just gave it all away!

A big factor being how long it has taken to build the damn thing!

Still, I'm sure there are loads of other companies willing to take advantage of these generous terms! The thing is, oil needs to stay high to make Ireland's resources viable so we'll end up paying through the nose anyway, unless we do a Chavez and subsidise it.

professore · 28-09-2011 02:29PM

If we were giving away the "huge reserves" of oil we supposedly have, the coast of Ireland would be thick with oilwells.

Do you really think the Government would say "here's an exploration license, sure it'll cost you a fortune and there's most likely no oil there at all, but sure won't it be great craic? Oh and by the way if you find anything you have to give us 75% of it" Of course not. I guess the only kind of "investor" that would go for a deal like that would be the same kind who thought a mortgage at 10 times salary was "affordable"

4leto · 28-09-2011 02:45PM

I was listening to Pat Rabbite on Primetime, there was 15 exploitative licences applied for by oil companies to drill off our coast. In the same period over a 100 licences was applied for to various governments around the north to drill there. sea.

So oil companies do not have that that much surety of a profitable find in our waters. I hate to say it but I don't have much hope that oil will solve our problems.

It really is as expensive venture, this exploration cost millions and millions, almost space exploration costs.

But at least i can hope there is a big profitable find out there, the way I hope I may win the lotto.

unitedrover · 28-09-2011 03:06PM

DaveDaRave wrote: »

but im sure murdered would be fine, because rape is worse than murder, right ?

:rolleyes:

Wouldnt be appropriate either. Theres plenty other words that could explain the situation here. A simple online synonym search would suffice.

Apologies for drifting off topic. The choice of words is hardly the main issue of discussion here.

Spacedog · 28-09-2011 05:46PM

mconigol wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

Fishing Industry?

Spacedog · 28-09-2011 05:58PM

marco_polo wrote: »

It wasn't a firesale though it was a perfectly normal licensing round as takes place every few years, with slightly different terms to the previous one, designed to increase exploration levels (there were 4 aplications in the previous one). As was said on the previous page this resulted in a moderate increase in applications to explore 15 of the 996 available blocks.

The business sense in stimulating exploration is that firstly it increases the potential for substantial finds, which results in more tax revenues, and secondly any increase in the exploration sucess ratios would provide us with a much stronger position for setting more favourable terms for ourselves into the future.

Typical Palaeontologist attitude. Get Them fuckin giant lizard bones outta the ground, so as we can dick about with them in a lab, then let them rot in open air museums covered in corrosive 'preservent' chemicals that scientists 50 years from now will hate us for not just leaving the knowledge there unspoilt for true insights to be discovered by applying as yet unknown bio-archaeological insights and innovations.

If there is a **** load of oil under Ireland, we would do ourselves a favour to leave it undiscovered, we as a people would be bombed into the stoneage because Enda Kenny won't disclose his cache of WMDs. or some other lame duck excuse.

Samba · 28-09-2011 06:19PM

mconigol wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

Eh no, since discovering their wealth of resources they quickly realised that one day they would ultimately run out, so to safeguard against this, the Norwegian Government have been making global strategic investments so to ensure the future sustainability of their country, whether it proves to be successful is another matter but they certainly don't have their heads buried in the sand in this respect.

Norwayviking · 30-09-2011 02:34PM

mconigol wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that Norway actually has oil.

I lived in Norway. It's not that good.

As soon as the oil runs out they're ****ed! Not much other industry.

Did you look close enough!!!!:rolleyes:

Manufacturing, mining, and crude petroleum and gas production accounted for nearly 31% of the GDP in 2000. The most important export industries are oil and gas extraction, metalworking, pulp and paper, chemical products, and processed fish. Products traditionally classified as home market industries (electrical and nonelectrical machinery, casting and foundry products, textiles, paints, varnishes, rubber goods, and furniture) also make an important contribution. Electrochemical and electrometallurgical products—aluminum, ferroalloys, steel, nickel, copper, magnesium, and fertilizers—are based mainly on Norway's low-cost electric power. Without any bauxite reserves of its own, Norway has thus been able to become a leading producer of aluminum.

marco_polo · 30-09-2011 02:43PM

Spacedog wrote: »

Typical Palaeontologist attitude. Get Them fuckin giant lizard bones outta the ground, so as we can dick about with them in a lab, then let them rot in open air museums covered in corrosive 'preservent' chemicals that scientists 50 years from now will hate us for not just leaving the knowledge there unspoilt for true insights to be discovered by applying as yet unknown bio-archaeological insights and innovations.

If there is a **** load of oil under Ireland, we would do ourselves a favour to leave it undiscovered, we as a people would be bombed into the stoneage because Enda Kenny won't disclose his cache of WMDs. or some other lame duck excuse.

You asked for the the economic reasoning behind adjusting the licensing terms, not my personal views on oil exploration.

bnt · 30-09-2011 03:08PM

I don't know about Ireland's oil reserves, but from what I understand, the Norwegian government was very smart in the way they handled their oil discoveries. They did not fall for the temptation to spend their windfall at once, not even on "noble" projects such as infrastructure. There was a good discussion of the topic on NPR's "Planet Money" podcast, here: Norways got advice for Libya.

Norwayviking · 30-09-2011 03:24PM

SellingJuan wrote: »

This is a prime example how rich our country actually is. Please support them. Amazing work send to as many people as possible and get this video out there!!
Ps personal opinion: This country started to go down when we signed over our fishing waters in the 70s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

Well its been 1000 years since the Vikings where here raping

msg11 · 30-09-2011 04:36PM

fontanalis wrote: »

How much would the government have had to pump in to get it running in the first place? Genral consensus or Joe Duffy caller consensus. People have to be employed that's PAYE, local goods and services may be purchased so there's VAT on those etc

The problem here is they are going to extract 580 Billion Euros worth of Oil and Gas from Ireland. Too which the Irish people getting nothing. Which is not really fair considering someone just said to Shell fire away have a go at getting some oil out there.

Quite moronic that the government gave it away, now I am not up on oil extracting or exploration. But I can quite clearly see and have a gut feeling this is an awful deal for the Irish people and a good bit of this could have gotten us out of this financial mess.

Ireland being RAPED... Norway lead by example!!

Comments