Tipperary Venue

ejmaztec · 21-09-2011 03:07PM

StephenHendry wrote: »

couldn't really see how this was going to be a success, the whole thing sounded over ambitious and could well have turned out to be a 'white elephant' , then people would be saying what eejits they were for granting permission in the first place for it to go ahead

As long as the Irish banks didn't fund it, the country would have nothing to lose if it went pear-shaped, but no-one's going to find out what level of success it would have now the plug's been pulled.

conorhal · 21-09-2011 03:08PM

k.p.h wrote: »

I can't get over this to be honest, I don't know how they would turn down a major part of what is nearly a half billion investment in the country. If they have such a problem with gambling why not shut down the bookies that are on every street corner in the country..! The idea is to attract people to the venue with the popularity of Irish Horse Racing. It's a huge market and the Irish are quite prominent players in the sport.

I could go on and on about this but I am just so dumbfounded I would not know where to start. Idiots !!

The only idiots I see are the people that believed there was any chance that this would actually be built.
The gambling lobby floated this white elephant with no intention what so ever of building the casino, the real goal was a change in the gaming laws to allow for a super-casino to be built. As soon as those laws changed the Two Mile Borris establishment would vanish faster then a politicians promises after the last ballot had been counted, and you would hear the developers crying about the financial viability of the entire project, how they would have to build a casino but without all the venues and attractions ect.
Of course once it all fell apart, there would be immediate submissions to redevelop the idea down in the Dublin Docklands or somewhere near the galway racetrack of course!

Good decision in my book.

super_furry · 21-09-2011 03:12PM

Am I too late to use the Simpson's Monorail references?

k.p.h · 21-09-2011 03:21PM

conorhal wrote: »

The only idiots I see are the people that believed there was any chance that this would actually be built.
The gambling lobby floated this white elephant with no intention what so ever of building the casino, the real goal was a change in the gaming laws to allow for a super-casino to be built. As soon as those laws changed the Two Mile Borris establishment would vanish faster then a politicians promises after the last ballot had been counted, and you would hear the developers crying about the financial viability of the entire project, how they would have to build a casino but without all the venues and attractions ect.
Of course once it all fell apart, there would be immediate submissions to redevelop the idea down in the Dublin Docklands or somewhere near the galway racetrack of course!

Good decision in my book.

What a load of speculation A.K.A Horse**** ..! You obviously don't know anything about the project or anything about the people who are involved in it ..!

connorsml · 21-09-2011 03:45PM

Was the minister talking specifically about the Tipperary Venue? How does the minister know that the casino element of this project will not be within his definition of modest?

Hopefully now we will see if this project is really going to go ahead without the casino, I know they have already said that the hotel would not go ahead without the casino, but it would be great if the equestrian elements went ahead regardless, I imagine they would create the bulk of the temporary employment. There is already a great hotel down the road from here at Horse and Jockey which I have stayed in last week (always packed by the way, no recession in Horse and Jockey for some reason), so perhaps people attending the races could stay there or in some of the hotels in Thurles and Cashel.

humanji · 21-09-2011 03:59PM

I kind of agree with the decision. It's not like nothing at all is going to be built now. There's a fair few alternative plans for full equestrian centres and race courses etc that would actually make a profit. It was wishful thinking that this would become a top tourist destination when there are so many better locations around Europe. A resort can still be built and if they feel the need for a casino, isn't there a maximum size of 500 tables allowed? I'd have thought that would be quite a lot.

k.p.h · 21-09-2011 04:17PM

connorsml wrote: »

Was the minister talking specifically about the Tipperary Venue? How does the minister know that the casino element of this project will not be within his definition of modest?

Hopefully now we will see if this project is really going to go ahead without the casino, I know they have already said that the hotel would not go ahead without the casino, but it would be great if the equestrian elements went ahead regardless, I imagine they would create the bulk of the temporary employment. There is already a great hotel down the road from here at Horse and Jockey which I have stayed in last week (always packed by the way, no recession in Horse and Jockey for some reason), so perhaps people attending the races could stay there or in some of the hotels in Thurles and Cashel.

It's not viable without the casino, the H&J is not big enough to accommodate the amount necessary to host the equestrian events mentioned (The Breeders Cup was mentioned). No other hotels in the area, well their are but the standard is terrible (check trip advisor to see what I am on about).

Tipperary is the central hub of National Hunt Racing and breeding worldwide with the biggest stud in the world Coolmore situated in Fethard (15 min away from proposed venue). It is a multi billion euro industry.

Despite this Ireland currently dose not have any world class facilities in regard to Horse Racing and hosting capabilities. The cost of developing such a facility would obviously be huge. Who is going to spend 200m + developing a facility for it to be used only a few times a year without diversifying the business. And who is going to build a facility without also building the necessary infrastructure to make it a success. e.g Hotels

The answer was to diversify the business. Hence the proposed events venue, hotel , casino.

The proposed project was to be financed by private investors from all around the world, their has been notable mentions of Arab investors (Their is also a few Arab owned stud farms located less than 15 min from the proposed site).

The venture was to create 1000 jobs during construction and 2000 after completion. What am I missing here..? Why would anyone say no ..?

rossie1977 · 21-09-2011 04:19PM

humanji wrote: »

A resort can still be built and if they feel the need for a casino, isn't there a maximum size of 500 tables allowed? I'd have thought that would be quite a lot.

the amount of space you would need to accommodate 500 gaming tables would be massive, the biggest casino in the states only has 390 tables and i think the proposal for this thing in tippeary was only 20,000sq foot casino which is tiny by vegas/macau standards

connorsml · 21-09-2011 04:26PM

k.p.h wrote: »

It's not viable without the casino, the H&J is not big enough to accommodate the amount necessary to host the equestrian events mentioned (The Breeders Cup was mentioned). No other hotels in the area, well their are but the standard is terrible (check trip advisor to see what I am on about).

Tipperary is the central hub of National Hunt Racing and breeding worldwide with the biggest stud in the world Coolmore situated in Fethard (15 min away from proposed venue). It is a multi billion euro industry.

Despite this Ireland currently dose not have any world class facilities in regard to Horse Racing and hosting capabilities. The cost of developing such a facility would obviously be huge. Who is going to spend 200m + developing a facility for it to be used only a few times a year without diversifying the business. And who is going to build a facility without also building the necessary infrastructure to make it a success. e.g Hotels

The answer was to diversify the business. Hence the proposed events venue, hotel , casino.

The proposed project was to be financed by private investors from all around the world, their has been notable mentions of Arab investors (Their is also a few Arab owned stud farms located less than 15 min from the proposed site).

The venture was to create 1000 jobs during construction and 2000 after completion. What am I missing here..? Why would anyone say no ..?

I am sure there is another way to diversify without a mega casino, if they really want to.

k.p.h · 21-09-2011 04:28PM

humanji wrote: »

It was wishful thinking that this would become a top tourist destination when there are so many better locations around Europe..

Thats such an Irish thing to say "ah they will do it better somewhere else". Why can't we do it here.?

I would say it is possible that their is no better location in the world to have it. It's not like the horse racing industry in Ireland is going to up sticks and head to some other country and make it a success somewhere else.

k.p.h · 21-09-2011 04:29PM

connorsml wrote: »

I am sure there is another way to diversify without a mega casino, if they really want to.

Planning permission for the events center was turned down .. :rolleyes: Apparently Ireland has enough of those ..??

Dempsey · 21-09-2011 04:35PM

Looks like the right people werent bribed enough

Seems Ireland doesnt want a multi million euro investment because of armchair risk assessment

connorsml · 21-09-2011 04:35PM

k.p.h wrote: »

Planning permission for the events center was turned down .. :rolleyes: Apparently Ireland has enough of those ..??

Yes, 1 in Dublin is plenty, let the rest of the country drive up for the concerts.

My name is URL · 21-09-2011 04:42PM

Was the reasoning behind refusing permission solely down to 'protecting young people'? That's the impression I get.. good auld forward thinking Ireland!

ejmaztec · 21-09-2011 04:43PM

Perhaps the government thinks there are enough casinos in the country operated by AIB and BOI.

connorsml · 21-09-2011 04:44PM

k.p.h wrote: »

Thats such an Irish thing to say "ah they will do it better somewhere else". Why can't we do it here.?

I would say it is possible that their is no better location in the world to have it. It's not like the horse racing industry in Ireland is going to up sticks and head to some other country and make it a success somewhere else.

Actually I just brought my in-laws for a week in Tipperary and they loved it. They are already planning the next trip. There is plenty to draw in tourists already, between a world class hotel, Gaelic games and one of the countries biggest stadia, Cashel, Holycross Abbey, Castles and plenty more. If the equestrian element of the project goes ahead it would really help Tipperary develop as a tourist destination. I know that sounds like a joke to Irish people, but to people coming from abroad to see Ireland, Tipperary is exactly what they want to see.

For Forks Sake · 21-09-2011 04:48PM

connorsml wrote: »

a world class hotel

Where

connorsml · 21-09-2011 04:50PM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Where

Horse and Jockey, I have stayed in a lot of hotels, but never anything like that. The executive suite was as big as the house I grew up in.

connorsml · 21-09-2011 04:51PM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Where

Not meaning to be selling the place for them, but I really enjoyed staying there.

http://www.horseandjockeyhotel.com/

Chuck Stone · 21-09-2011 04:56PM

connorsml wrote: »

Yes, 1 in Dublin is plenty, let the rest of the country drive up for the concerts.

must - not - feed

Seachmall · 21-09-2011 04:57PM

connorsml wrote: »

Not meaning to be selling the place for them, but I really enjoyed staying there.

http://www.horseandjockeyhotel.com/

Jaysus, I think I stayed there when I was like 13, nice spot alright.

k.p.h · 21-09-2011 04:58PM

connorsml wrote: »

Horse and Jockey, I have stayed in a lot of hotels, but never anything like that. The executive suite was as big as the house I grew up in.

The H&J is a great little hotel. it's not exactly huge but its got all the facilities. I'm a member of the leisure center. It's also got top class conferencing facilities and is a major meeting spot for a lot of business. Also all the ground work for the Venue was done their from regular meetings to the press announcements of the proposed development. Often see Mr.Quirks Ferrari F430 parked outside, its pretty awesome.

I also know from local sources that the people involved in the H&J would welcome the development of the Venue. It's worth noting that the people involved in the development are from Tipperary.

Seachmall · 21-09-2011 05:00PM

k.p.h wrote:

It's also got top class conferencing facilities and is a major meeting spot for a lot of business. Also all the ground work for the Venue was done their from regular meetings to the press announcements of the proposed development.

For more information on how the Horse and Jockey Hotel can cater to your needs call us on +353 (0)504 441 92...

:pac:

latenia · 21-09-2011 05:34PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Was the reasoning behind refusing permission solely down to 'protecting young people'? That's the impression I get.. good auld forward thinking Ireland!

Take a look into Dr Quirkey's any day of the week and you'll see crying babies in buggies or sitting on their mothers' laps as they feed coins into slot machines, kids under 10 trying to drag their parents away from the machines, people with obvious intellectual disabilties losing their cash, junkies desperately trying to spin up enough money to score, and various other downtrodden outcasts.
The people behind this have ZERO ethics.

k.p.h · 21-09-2011 05:53PM

latenia wrote: »

Take a look into Dr Quirkey's any day of the week and you'll see crying babies in buggies or sitting on their mothers' laps as they feed coins into slot machines, kids under 10 trying to drag their parents away from the machines, people with obvious intellectual disabilties losing their cash, junkies desperately trying to spin up enough money to score, and various other downtrodden outcasts.
The people behind this have ZERO ethics.

I'm sure their are better places for the word ethics to be mentioned.. If you are saying that they should ban casinos then why not gambling completely get rid of all those bookies, and how about alcohol and cigarettes. And while we are at it how about fast food too. How about all them things that are bad for the kids and society... How can the government let all those horrible things go on in our country..? How about all the looking the other way as the shenanigans went on during the past decade, ethics what a farce word when discussed in relation to Ireland. I'm pretty sure they are thinking about ethics as half the young people of Tipperary emigrate. Tunnel vision and ignorance are fast becoming a well known trait of the Irish..:(

roast · 21-09-2011 05:59PM

rebel without a clue wrote: »

its ridiculous. the nearest town (2 miles) already has a horse racing track, a dog track, hotels. There is already a georgous hotel only 1 mile from the venue on the motorway too. All this is doing is creating jobs for the construction industry. When its built, up and running for about a year, it'll will die a slow death then. The country is riddled with empty hotels and they're giving panning permission to build more???!!!

So, worst case scenario is that a bunch of jobs will be created for the construction industry?

I think the "nearest towns" horse racing, dog racing and hotels will pale in comparison to this place, what makes you think this wouldn't work?

It has the potential to create countless jobs and act as a great resort for tourists. How bad? I hope it works!

latenia · 21-09-2011 06:03PM

I never said casinos should be banned. I've just never seen a gambling establishment anywhere in the world that allows children on the premises. As for "what went on in Ireland"- this whole business and the people involved are the epitome of everything that's wrong here.

IvySlayer · 21-09-2011 06:04PM

Alan Shatter hang your head in shame.

Fine Gael, you promised us jobs and investment and this is what you give us?

humanji · 21-09-2011 06:28PM

k.p.h wrote: »

Thats such an Irish thing to say "ah they will do it better somewhere else". Why can't we do it here.?

I would say it is possible that their is no better location in the world to have it. It's not like the horse racing industry in Ireland is going to up sticks and head to some other country and make it a success somewhere else.

Is it really a bad thing to worry about the economic viability of the project? Very little stats or studies have been given about it. Those that have been gathered by outside sources are negative at best. The organiser won't talk to people about it, instead pushing that corrupt clown Lowry into the limelight (lord knows why they think that'll get people onside).

The whole thing is very suspicious. Why must this project have a casino? Why can't they build the resort without one, or with a small one? It seems that basing a resort on a casino is the main problem. Isn't that easily remedied?

People seem to be blinded by the phrase "It'll create jobs". Sure it will, but will they only be temporary? Would it not be better to rethink the project based on an idea that is more likely to succeed so that the jobs become permanent?

That's my feeling of it. They could do something to guarantee permanent jobs, or something that may make permanent jobs. I'll go with option 1.

mickydoomsux · 21-09-2011 06:29PM

latenia wrote: »

My name is URL wrote: »

Was the reasoning behind refusing permission solely down to 'protecting young people'? That's the impression I get.. good auld forward thinking Ireland!

Take a look into Dr Quirkey's any day of the week and you'll see crying babies in buggies or sitting on their mothers' laps as they feed coins into slot machines, kids under 10 trying to drag their parents away from the machines, people with obvious intellectual disabilties losing their cash, junkies desperately trying to spin up enough money to score, and various other downtrodden outcasts.
The people behind this have ZERO ethics.

I don't want to have to live in a country with rounded edges because fools and their money are easily parted.

This casino should have been allowed to go ahead because we desperately need the tax revenue and employment. Instead, the government is once again playing nursemaid and babysitting "de vulnerable".

Tipperary Venue

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