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Who's the bigger beast? Helpless Lion killed by Tory Party UK Donor

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Comments

  • #122
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Yes I am serious, what the hell is the lion innocent of? People seem to think that wild animals are like something out of Disney films and humans are some sort of fallen angles that should live on love and aren't really part of the natural world at all.

    http://narizdegelatina.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/jackie-chan-meme.png?w=320&h=160


  • #123
    Crafty Cig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Crafty Cig


    ScumLord
    What makes this lion so innocent? Lions murder lots of other animals you could say live by the sword die by the sword.

    That really is one of the most unintentionally funny things I've ever read on a forum -'What makes this lion so innocent?'

    It's right up there with Monty Python's 'What have the Romans done for us?' And it reminds me of Jay's reaction in The Inbetweeners when he deliberately runs over a squirrel - '****ing little pisstaker!'

    So, on the strength of that, I'm going to guess that you're a seventeen-year old boy. Or Karl Pilkington.


  • #124
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    This is exactly the sort of case I need to rebuild my shattered practice. I think I can get a hungry carnivore off with just manslaughter as I feel it's killing of the zebra was not pre-meditated. In fact the Lion himself told me so in a voice that sounded like James Earl Jones funnily enough.
    Crafty Cig wrote: »
    That really is one of the most unintentionally funny things I've ever read on a forum -'What makes this lion so innocent?'

    I just don't see why there's such a huge distinction between one animal and another animal killing some other animal whether it be for food, territory or fun, all animals do these things.

    People seem to be completely oblivious to the fact they are also animals and just as vulnerable to their instinct and behaviours as every other animal on the planet. I don't see why a Lion killing something is only innocent fun where if we where to kill the same animal for the same reasons we're murderers.

    I really don't think people in general accept they are animals, it's not unusual that humans do these things, just like it's not unusual for a cat to kill for fun. I think people that think humans are terrible for killing just have no natural experience and I'd really love to see them dumped in a wild environment to see how quickly they lose all regards for every other thing on the planet.


  • #125
    Crafty Cig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Crafty Cig


    And re: the guilty lion - you know, the one that was rampaging around murdering zebras and so had to be stopped by that selfless altruist, David Scholey (who, you can see from the photo of him beside the lion that he has just shot dead, has nothing but conservation on his mind) - well, it very much reminds me of the sarcasm of chimpanzees.

    Very sarcastic animal, the chimp. All that laughing and arse-showing. Not to mention the defiant eye-contact. I'm not saying that they derserve to be shot in the brain or through the heart (where any good hunter would aim) as the lion does (the murdering bastard!) but I would have thought that chimps are at least deserving of punch in the face.

    Why are there no reserves where people with the money and time and the inclination can go to punch chimpanzees in the face? Think of the revenue it could raise for further conservation. Or the money could be used for the setting up of an animal hospital... to treat chimpanzees that have been punched in the face by wealthy tourists.

    In fact, it could open up a whole new area of potential income streams for countries with indigenous populations of animals that are available for violence to be committed on them by human beings.

    For example:

    1) Zebra slapping - The stripey swines! they deserve a good slap.

    2) Giraffe spearing - long-necked beggars. It's just showing off.

    3) Rhino teasing - perhaps just start off with 'fat arse!' and then work your way up

    4) Flamingo leg chopping - controversial, I know, but as they often stand on only one leg, why not snip through the other with pruning sheers? Money to be made here.

    5) Duck kicking - can even be done in the Uk; fine for those on a limited budget as no need for expensive travel.

    I'm sure you can think of your own.

    So, there we have it: the immoral world of non-human animals can be put to rights by the stern application of the higher morality of human beings willing to commit acts of satisfying violence.


  • #126
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    That reminds me of the russian zoo, where a keeper nonchalantly entered a Lion cage to sweep up. No guesses for what happened next.

    Of course the lion was shot for attempted murder (maybe he thought the cleaner was a burglar and was startled and panicked). The guy survived after a mauling but if you're that stupid then you deserve what's coming to you :rolleyes:


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  • #127
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Crafty Cig wrote: »
    Why are there no reserves where people with the money and time and the inclination can go to punch chimpanzees in the face? Think of the revenue it could raise for further conservation. Or the money could be used for the setting up of an animal hospital... to treat chimpanzees that have been punched in the face by wealthy tourists.
    .
    They've gone one better, if your a really rich doctor you can give them AIDs.


  • #128
    Crafty Cig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Crafty Cig


    I just don't see why there's such a huge distinction between one animal and another animal killing some other animal whether it be for food, territory or fun, all animals do these things.

    And the fact that you don't make a distinction is what makes it so amusing, and a little worrying.
    People seem to be completely oblivious to the fact they are also animals and just as vulnerable to their instinct and behaviours as every other animal on the planet. I don't see why a Lion killing something is only innocent fun where if we where to kill the same animal for the same reasons we're murderers.

    Please don't ever stop channelling the spirit of Karl Pilkington, it makes you what you are. But I have to take you up on your characterisation of the lion's behaviour as 'innocent fun' - it's not innocent fun for the gazelle, is it! So I think you're letting the lion off lightly there. Stick with your original contention that the lion is a murderer.
    I really don't think people in general accept they are animals, it's not unusual that humans do these things, just like it's not unusual for a cat to kill for fun. I think people that think humans are terrible for killing just have no natural experience and I'd really love to see them dumped in a wild environment to see how quickly they lose all regards for every other thing on the planet.

    See, I agree with you, and I've tried many times to use this argument in court whenever I've killed anyone. It never works. It's so unfair. I'm only an animal subject to uncontroallable instincts to maim and kill, so why can I not do that and then not be judged because of it!

    As soon as I'm out on parole I'm going to start a campaign - EQUAL RIGHTS FOR MURDERERS FROM ALL SPECIES!


  • #129
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I wonder what Lion tastes like...


  • #130
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    smash wrote: »
    I wonder what Lion tastes like...

    http://www.chocablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/lion1.jpg



    ;)


  • #131
    Crafty Cig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Crafty Cig


    ScumLord
    I think people that think humans are terrible for killing just have no natural experience...

    No natural experience of what, exactly - being Fred West? Being Saddam Hussein? No natural experience in having a conscience?

    (Still laughing, though...)


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  • #132
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    Its one of those things. The kind of best of 2 evils.

    We want the developing countries to keep these wildlife preserves and parks, but we don't have to pay for their upkeep.

    So if the parks can attract these big game hunters who pay for the priviliage of hunting big game why not.

    Also in some cases these animals have to be culled, I know that is the case for Elephants, the park usually shoots a whole herd, so why not get some paying tourists to do it for you.

    Personally I would never hunt, I just don't get the kink. Like what is it,,yay I killed a mighty creature from half a kilometre away with my big powerful gun, I am so brave.


  • #133
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,302 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    goat2 wrote: »
    "All the animals I hunt are wild beasts. And I have felt threatened by them at times"
    if he stayed away from their habitat, he would not feel threatened, you would swear they knocked on his door and asked him out for a fight,

    And we all know it's only animal rights loonies who would do that. :)


  • #134
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I just don't see why there's such a huge distinction between one animal and another animal killing some other animal whether it be for food, territory or fun, all animals do these things.

    People seem to be completely oblivious to the fact they are also animals and just as vulnerable to their instinct and behaviours as every other animal on the planet. I don't see why a Lion killing something is only innocent fun where if we where to kill the same animal for the same reasons we're murderers.

    I really don't think people in general accept they are animals, it's not unusual that humans do these things, just like it's not unusual for a cat to kill for fun. I think people that think humans are terrible for killing just have no natural experience and I'd really love to see them dumped in a wild environment to see how quickly they lose all regards for every other thing on the planet.

    Well I would be happy to say theres no distinction between some humans and animals. For centruries our capacity for empathy and compassion has according to some, given us status above animals. If your argueing were the same as animals then Im sure youll agree with some people,s sentiments that a humans life is no better than an animals' the same logic some of the more extreme animal rights groups use.


  • #135
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Crafty Cig wrote: »
    And the fact that you don't make a distinction is what makes it so amusing, and a little worrying.
    I didn't say there was no distinction, what I'm saying is it's not unusual for animals to kill other animals for a hole range of reasons and the human animal is no different.


    But I have to take you up on your characterisation of the lion's behaviour as 'innocent fun' - it's not innocent fun for the gazelle, is it!
    If you'd pay attention to what I was saying you'd see I never said that.



    Crafty Cig wrote: »
    ScumLord


    No natural experience of what, exactly - being Fred West? Being Saddam Hussein? No natural experience in having a conscience?

    (Still laughing, though...)
    No natural experience of the natural world. Even people in the Irish countryside would have little idea of how their food is produced. But we would also have little to no experience of how life is in an African country and expecting them to not take advantage of their surroundings to make money so they can do something as simple as eating just because we don't like to see a picture of a dead lion is just completely stupid. A human animal will no more overlook a food source (the money they make from the lions death will allow them to eat) than any other animal on the planet.


  • #136
    Crafty Cig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Crafty Cig


    Originally Posted by Crafty Cig viewpost.gif
    And the fact that you don't make a distinction is what makes it so amusing, and a little worrying.
    'And the fact that you don't make a distinction is what makes it so amusing, and a little worrying.'

    I didn't say there was no distinction, what I'm saying is it's not unusual for animals to kill other animals for a hole range of reasons and the human animal is no different.

    And I didn't say that you said there was no distinction, I said that you didn't make a distinction. The two are different... if you can make the distinction.

    But what you did say is:
    I just don't see why there's such a huge distinction between one animal and another animal killing some other animal whether it be for food, territory or fun, all animals do these things.

    Which means you are equating the free will, conscience and self awareness of a human being who can decide not to kill something for enjoyment with the survival instinct of an animal to kill for food.

    It is a false equivalence.

    But you're much more amusing when you stick to channelling the spirit of Karl Pilkington.

    Like this:
    But I have to take you up on your characterisation of the lion's behaviour as 'innocent fun' - it's not innocent fun for the gazelle, is it!
    If you'd pay attention to what I was saying you'd see I never said that
    .

    I can see that sarcasm is wasted on you. (Can I have my wasted sarcasm back please, mister?) And I was paying such good attention to you that I remember you writing this:
    I don't see why a Lion killing something is only innocent fun...


  • #137
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Which means you are equating the free will, conscience and self awareness of a human being who can decide not to kill something for enjoyment with the survival instinct of an animal to kill for food.
    Not all animals kill just for food though. Cats and dogs kill just for the sake of it if you just take the killing at face value and don't take into consideration behaviour.

    Your also not taking into account that if the local lad helping the rich guy doesn't make some money this week he's family goes hungry or gets evicted or dies from some disease. Now their killing for survival again. Of course the rich guy hasn't a very valid reason other than he wants to feel like a man but rich people like him are an oddball rarity. He's trying to display his power he's about as civilised as a monkey baring it's arse.

    It's still not unusual for humans to enjoy killing as much as a domestic cat enjoys it.

    But you're much more amusing when you stick to channelling the spirit of Karl Pilkington.
    If you have a point to make, make it. There's no need for all the childish thinly veiled insults.


  • #138
    Crafty Cig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Crafty Cig


    Not all animals kill just for food though. Cats and dogs kill just for the sake of it if you just take the killing at face value and don't take into consideration behaviour.

    Animals predominantly kill because of some need, whether it is for food, survival or protection. If you have to rely on the hoary old exception of the cat with the mouse then your argument is built on a very unstable foundation.

    You're evading the central point (and which was the point that you made) that there is no difference between an animal killing an animal and a human being killing an animal. There is a difference. It's just that you can't see it. Or even recognise it.

    Though you are committed to dancing around that point, even when the dancing is in circles:
    People seem to be completely oblivious to the fact they are also animals and just as vulnerable to their instinct and behaviours as every other animal on the planet. I don't see why a Lion killing something is only innocent fun where if we where to kill the same animal for the same reasons we're murderers.


    It's not that I wasn't taking the practicalities into account, it's that we weren't discussing that matter. In fact, you weren't even discussing that matter - it's something that you've only just now introduced into you're argument because, as a rule, usually people will reach for any quiver in a fight.

    And the question posed by the original post was a moral one, about responsibility, not a practical one about making money for local people. (Though there is also evidence that the 'hunting zones' set up by for-profit hunting companies lead to a much higher reduction in the numbers of the hunted wildife than those in protected reserves. Which ultimately leads to nothing for anyone.)
    It's still not unusual for humans to enjoy killing as much as a domestic cat enjoys it.

    We already know this. It's uncontroversial. And stating it as if it's a revelation or a nugget of personal wisom doesn't advance your point, which was (if you remember) that you didn't understand why there was a distinction between the two. That is the whole point. Which you are still dancing around trying to find a footing.
    If you have a point to make, make it.

    I did make my point, and I don't need your permission or your request to make it, thanks. But then I have spent the last hour nailing live hamsters to plank of wood and eating live goldfish, so you can imagine how tired I am.

    Horrible shoes, by the way...


  • #139
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    garv123 wrote: »
    these threads come up alot in AH and A&PI

    same thing. hunters are cruel bla bla.

    Not every hunter is a trophy hunter.
    the majority of hunters gut and skin what they shoot and bring it home and feed the family with it, such as deer, duck, pheasant and wood pigeon.
    Dont see whats wrong with this when people have no problems eating chickens, pigs and cows who all live crappy lives.

    so unless you're a vegetarian u cant complain about that kind of hunting.

    No problem there but the lack of hunters condeming the death of an animal classified as threathened isnt helping the case.


  • #140
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No problem there but the lack of hunters condeming the death of an animal classified as threathened isnt helping the case.
    Eddie most hunters would love the chance to do the same and are not going to condne it because it was all done legally. they would condone poaching but this was not poaching. why not start a thread in the hunting section and ask their opinions on it?


  • #141
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Hunter

    Hunter

    Hunter

    Idiot with a large gun

    I always thought it rather odd that these gobdaws are called 'hunters'.

    Like fuck they are.


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  • #142
    carlybabe1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭carlybabe1


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Hunter

    hunter

    Hunter

    Idiot with a large gun

    I always thought it rather odd that these gobdaws are called 'hunters'.

    Like fuck they are.

    Ahhh chuck, I knew when I saw your post that it would be a zinger :D

    In the words of Zelma (or pattie :confused:)
    "you zingggg ze ooooof gutttt" :D

    That sums it up for me,a picture is indeed worth a thousand words


  • #143
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    carlybabe1 wrote: »
    Ahhh chuck, I knew when I saw your post that it would be a zinger :D

    In the words of Zelma (or pattie :confused:)
    "you zingggg ze ooooof gutttt" :D

    That sums it up for me,a picture is indeed worth a thousand words


    Aw shucks. :)

    http://www.bondware.com/mod/forumpro/art/emoticons/big/bashful.gif


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